A new board on its way...

[Steeno]

I agree with everyones thoughts here.

Its obvious who are aggressive surfers and who are not, Its nothing to do with comps (bad categorizing by me, trying to be diplomatic and not hurt anyones feelings) If you wanna surf like farrer, baden slater etc. then to me your an aggressive surfer, and will see the advantage in having boards like that in you quiver, but then there are your surfers as Willi said that will go straight and not do a turn, cutback whatever (is a mellow surfer to me) and are having just as much fun...not interested in Farrer, Baden slater etc.

Do these mellow guys (not interested in hitting the lip) require a board, built for performance surfing? Beacause they are not interested in being aggressive, alot of these features from performance boards can be a hinderance to a mellow surfer, if he is allready happy enough with the way he surfs, and he is not looking to become the next farrer.

Its not about, keeping it for the boys at all, its about understanding your client and there surfing needs, to keep it fun. We all have different reasons, but mellow to aggressive are the extremes of this.

It also not about how many boards you have in your quiver either.....

This is the key issue here. To allow a shaper to differentiate is to give him a licence to produce something less than he should..and I can't think of any other profession that would allow this. Can you?

My profession does this everyday, I will produce an interior that you are looking for to suit your lifestyle etc, not one that you will feel uncomfortable in. The key to me is understanding the clients needs. Keep your quality of wokmanship the same, in end product. No different, I dont feel, in this situation. I dont think I would feel comfortable or myself in Versace's lounge room.

sorry if I am rambling, its not personal to anyone here, but just my view that we are all very different in our needs to be happy, and to me this also applies in the surfing world

Didn't I hear somewhere the Slater once paddled out on a door (like from a house) and rode a couple on it?

great point, I saw that and did not see him ride the door out pipe next time he was there, but the next person may still be riding that door because he surfs 4 times a year and that is enough enjoyment for him, to make him happy. Another bad analogy!

[john -]

Hey Steenos et al

the catogories are definately there - its what those who fall into those catergories are trying to do! In general i would hope the same thing -

from what i can tell around here, kneelos who want the laid back approach become longboarders


Again the beauty of Kneeboarding against standup surfing is the pool of tested shapers is shallow, which means the shapers have to have depth

Then when you consider KSUSA and its "gossip" potential - hart, Parkes and Bud have little choice but to maintain the cutting edge - there are other shapers I know but these are the main three on evidence

Thats not say they would not keep standards high anyway - again the thing about kneeoarding is that there is a pride and passion amongst us as a seemingly left field water persuit

and these guys seem like they shape for the craft of it -

the other aspect of good (buisness) shaping is you would have to like people - then you would listen - again on evidence these shapers like communication

Steenos - I just had a quick squiz at your post as i was finishing mine - we seem on track

dorje

[Ben B.]

Hope im not off track here but im guessing wave quality comes into the picture to.Some people cannot be bothered pushing themselves in ordinary waves.Put them in a situation where the waves are of good quality and i think most guys cant help but go harder.

[albert]

Some people cannot be bothered pushing themselves in ordinary waves

They are not a lazy board, by any definition. You actually have to “ride” them to make them work.

same same??

[ross]

i was wondering how many of us out there really get what they want anyway.now i know that even machined blanks are never going to be identicle,but its pretty frustrating to go to a shaper actually give him a board and say go as close as you can.only to have the board returned with flyers where there weren't any(i hate flyers).i'm not talking about one shaper here either.
i think what bruce said about surfers walking in off the street does occur in kneeboarding to some extent.
i guess shapers do have to make some assumptions.when alot of guys either think they are better than they are or wouldn't have a clue what goes anyway.ego is a big thing in surfing.
but if i'm paying full price for my boards i want what i've asked for!
ross

[Steeno]

very, very good point.......

[splashy]

Steen has nailed it.

By "lazy" I meant that you can't just sit on the board and not do much and it will still generate speed and want to turn etc... ie, you can just sit there and let it plane over a fat section.

The opposite of this is a board you have to "surf". You have to work it, and feel it and be active and get active on the board to allow the design features and the shape to work.

But the definitions of "surf" and "working" the board will be different for each surfer - a weekend cruiser is going to have different demands to a competition hottie...

...and does the surfer really come first? Or does a "learner" need a good board first to learn good habits to develop their skills and style to reach a consistent level of performance so that a board can be shaped for them? (How can you shape a board for someone who is all over the place and doesn't have a skill level yet?) Would it be after that point is reach that the surfer comes first and then the board?

[john -]

...and does the surfer really come first? Or does a "learner" need a good board first to learn good habits to develop their skills and style to reach a consistent level of performance so that a board can be shaped for them? (How can you shape a board for someone who is all over the place and doesn't have a skill level yet?) Would it be after that point is reach that the surfer comes first and then the board?

:?

Chicken or the egg?

The surfer must come first - because they need the board - the board is not a stand alone object - it is not concieved of before the surfer

though there may have been less trouble in Eden if the were a few boards laying around!

a good board for a learner is somewhat relative but a learner is not if they are truly devoid of skill

perhaps the wave comes first!

dorje

[splashy]

ibut if i'm paying full price for my boards i want what i've asked for!
ross

Yeah - but what are you "asking for"?

I'm not a shaper and know a bit about shapes and what works and what doesn't, but I rely on the shaper to translate how my surfing "feels" to a shape that will take me where I think I want to do.

...as in, I go to Parksey with ALL my boards, ride any I can find in his garage, and then sit down with him and say I like this board because of this, but don't like that it does that; that board is great because of X, but I hate the way it doesn;t do Y blah blah blah....

In the end I let the shaper translate that out to a board that works. Which is why I think you need to build a strong relationship with a shaper over time so that you learn how each other work, he knows how you surf and what type of waves you surfed and what boards you have surfed to get where you are, and also so you are speaking the same language.

I think there is a danger for surfers to "order" a shaper to do a specific thing - I mean, who am I to tell a shaper what to shape? He's got a lot more knowledge than me and he'd better use it to make the board do what I want it to do. That's what I pay him for. I don't tell a mechanic how to fix my car, I just tell him it has got no power and the horn doesn't work...I expect him to fix it.

I know a number of surfers (kneelo and standup) who "order" a specific board and if it doesn't work they blame the shaper - that's pretty unfair and unrealistic.

[splashy]

The surfer must come first - because they need the board - the board is not a stand alone object - it is not concieved of before the surfer

though there may have been less trouble in Eden if the were a few boards laying around!

a good board for a learner is somewhat relative but a learner is not if they are truly devoid of skill

perhaps the wave comes first!

dorje

Ahh.... so true..........
I am but a grasshopper who is absorbing your wisdom like the warmth from the morning sun.

[john -]

I am but an empty vessel sailing upon a sea of bollocks making a lot of sound

[hart]

...and does the surfer really come first?

Or does a "learner" need a good board first to learn good habits to develop their skills and style to reach a consistent level of performance so that a board can be shaped for them?

(How can you shape a board for someone who is all over the place and doesn't have a skill level yet?)

Would it be after that point is reach that the surfer comes first and then the board?

Hello all..

Well if we were concentrating on 'learners' then of course, you are right.

The thing is, I don't know of many kneeboard learners.

Most kneeboarders I can think of are very experienced and very informed.

Like all of them.

Kneeboarders are a discerning group..with few novices.



no need for anyone to hold back..whether you shape or surf.

Besides, this is Don's post and I am looking forward to reading more from him..

Good luck for all in Santa Cruz..hope you have a ball..

[Steeno]

oopppss I think i sent Dons post into this spin


I think Dons new board should be cool

[john -]

I nearly needed a new board about an hour ago

fired by mates reports of 4 to 5 ft quality raced to a protected break (sea breeze) and paddled out for a 25 minute bash as the sun set behind the hills

lowest tide of the year....saw rock/reef formations that ive never seen before


scamper over said rocks and....flippers on....flipper saves too cos i wear over sized flippers cos my toes are clawed


forgot to put on legrope in haste

first wave of set i take fall of the back at end and come up to NO board



what the.......oh my ....

no beach just low low low tide boulder rock

look behind me waves breaking....swim like thorpe...one wave hits board...this is the end ....

Huey the deity of the humble surfer somehow appears....he must have....the board went up and over the back rather than foward on to a grinding set of teeth


i make it to the board

3 waves later its dark.....its always worth it


er ah ...sorry Don back to you

[OOK]

Came in late on this thread guys but could it be said that lazy surfers are more the natural school surfers- go with the wave, react to it as it changes, go with the flow positioning type surfers,
then there are the aggro surfers- who try to over power the wave, try and defeat it type surfers who defy the waves flow and put their own lines over it, smashing the lip throwing big spray etc not allowing the wave to dictate to them, I would put in a third catergory the fun guys - who do certain moves even if its not fashionable such as big round houses out on the face, side slips and spin 360s which others would write off as lame but its fun to that surfer. Most of us would use a combo of all 3 and I guess it depends on your mood or personality.
Any other styles out there ?
OOK