Kneeboarding At 3 G's

[Man O' War]

That's it. If Steeno's in, Hart's in, and Beeline's already toasting it, we have a miracle here.

Bruce, a lot is resting on your shoulders and in your hands.

I hope Dale (Flexman) will also kick in as an endless resource, publicly on this forum or behind the scenes by email, even though his heart is in Greenough "Stage X," the mat.

I just got an email from my brother, who visited this thread. To further stoke the fires, I'll share part of it without his permission. Would I be a brother if I didn't?

He describes a very fun day yesterday at Sewer Peak on his foam board. In his honest way, he has just finished saying he probably couldn't have enjoyed it as much on a spoon because of the nature of the waves...

"So what about the spoon? There is no doubt of its reputation in longer, bigger waves. Sadly, GG was never filmed in much of that. I've watched his surfing alot in Crystal Voyager and Fantastic Plastic Machine. It certainly is interesting what he does, and he has the smoothest, most spontaneous sytle. But it's not all that impressive. I get much more jazzed watching Simon surf in his two videos because of his ability to work over the whole wave without losing power anywhere, and the blazing speed he shows in the barrel. But there are stories about what GG was really able to accomplish on his spoon that were never documented... these excite me.

"That being said, I really liked what Beeline was intimating about Velo having the most legendary 5th gear in surfing. I would really like to find that 5th gear. I know the upper end of the speed limits of my current boards. I've been surfing them in pretty good waves at the same spots for years now. Interestingly, the breaks I surf in the winter are not crowded to the point of negating the advantages of the spoon. If that gear exists in your board, I will find it, and I will know it when I hit it. I feel I've accomplished a lot of my goals in riding a conventional board in good waves. That just shows you how low my goals are. Now I'd love to see what happens with a spoon, even though it may not be able to do some of the things I've really come to enjoy on my current boards. It will be fun to learn what the trade-off is. And to feel true flex. That has to be special.

"It's neat to hear from others that they might be willing to shape themselves a spoon if someone gave them explicit instructions."

[Man O' War]

PS. And my kamikaze brother WILL find that 5th gear.

[Craig]

MOW, there is lot's great footage of Greenough's Spoon surfing in NZ & Aus in a movie he had a part in shooting called (Intermostlimits of pure fun). Check it out




sTiLl a gRoM

[willli]

actually "Innermost" has very little spoon footage, and what's on there isn't impressive by todays standards. what there is a lot of is inside barrel footage, revolutionary for its day, and I'm mindful that THAT footage was shot riding said spoon.

man'o don't let the winter pictures fool you. those conditions were brutal, water temp about 37degF (almost zero to the C users), ridiculous drift, air temp not much better. a spoon is an imersion experience, literally. In our best conditions, reasonably warm water, fall cane season, the best breaks are packed. Mtk and RI have a reputation for holding big swells as opposed to mile long close-outs everyplace else. If you figure 2 prime waves a minute X 60min = 120 possible rides an hour / 60 surfers= roughly 2 waves an hour, total of 6 waves per 3hr session.
I'll need more feedback before changing equipment to experiment with such a scarce resource.

[Man O' War]

Craig -- If you can get a hold of "Children of the Sun," that's the most footage I've seen of Velo and in some pretty nice waves. If you slow it way down, you can watch the spoon work. I'll speak heresy now: it seems like George didn't need that much hull. Tell me what you think. I'll retract if I'm wrong.

Willli -- You just broke my Long Island bubble! I see what you mean, though. You can't even let yourself think about buying without first trying. Now, how are you supposed to try something out that's not available? That's the point of this thread. From the beginning, if you wanted a spoon, you had to make it yourself. 40 years later, same deal, unless you can afford to order one off the Romanasky website, something which he himself basically tells you not to do. How can all this change? If this is a worthwhile vehicle, someone either starts producing and distributing, or you walk into your favorite shaper with the plans and say, here.

[tumak]

M.O.W. - Boy, you're REALLY in hot water now! Ha ha ha! Go with the flow, bro!

The Blackbird is so advanced, like Velo, and boards like this will probably always belong to a small cadre of advanced nervous systems. But, NERVOUS SYSTEMS CAN EVOLVE! Greenough didn't like his when he first rode it. It appeared in his mind first, and then his hands made it, but even when he rode it he didn't immediately understand it. Nervous systems tend to get stuck in the comfort zone of experience, and it takes a different breed of searcher to step outside the box.

I was totally gerschlumpled when you handed it to me; I was like a helpless baby out there! But I love that board, and if I had one I would force my nervous system to evolve, trusting that Greenough (the Dan'l Boone of kneeboarding) was stepping into the void for reasons that could benefit the average Joe. Ahead of his time?...you betcha!

Visually, I prefer the moves I see Greenough doing in the Innermost Limits (for example) than what I see people doing today, generally speaking. He was not trying to do standup thruster moves (boy, I'm in hot water now!) to thrash music. His soundtrack was blues based rock (The Farm) and broke away from established longboard lines with no other paradigms to work from.

I just think the KB community needs to go back in time in order to step into the future. To me, it looks as though the flex spoon is a different species that draws from a mid-sixties experience in terms of waveriding directives. Contemporary KB's seem to derive more from thrusters, attempting (to restate the obvious) duplicate thruster moves. To come around to your viewpoint, a large majority of KB'ers would have to DROP the Slater-on-his-knees style of riding. -tumak

[Craig]

MOW, You are correct (Children of the Sun) is the movie I meant I like to put George in slowmotion on that long right @ near the end of the flick My first experiance w/ spoon as a kid ended w/ 8 stiches in my knee, Spoons are very hard




StIllL a gRoM

[ScottMac]

..

[Man O' War]

Hey Tumak, at least we didn't cut anything off out there.

Personally, I'm OK with the aerials and trick moves. It's pure athleticism and a lot of fun. Those who master that stuff should get the credit they deserve. But what I envision is 5' to 6' graphite or graphite-glass spoons, single, twin, thruster or quad, with the lightness and durability to go airborne but the flex and torque to still slingshot through turns. Let the nervous system tingle!

See you at the Gathering 4/30, right?

[Man O' War]

Scott, you're a genius. That goes to Steeno & mates for their test pilot DVD.

[ross]

steeno
fu#k yeah.
you couldn't have come up with a better idea .
i've been fantasizing about taking a spoon to g'land for a while now,or some other wave that does not back off.
i'm working on something now as i'm not surfing cause of the hole in my head .my glassing skills are questionable so things are gonna get messy around here
if i can help out(logistics etc) pm me.i'd love to help out with something as soulful as this project sounds .

[Man O' War]

One more thought for the one or two guys still hanging around this thread.

There is a belief, repeated like a mantra, that if there's a crowd, you can forget spoons. You can't ride a spoon in crowded surf, they say. Spoons only work in uncrowded conditions. Actually, the opposite is true. If anything, your chances of getting waves in a crowd are better with a spoon. Why?

What do you have to do with a foam board in a pack? You have to either move farther down the line and pick off leftovers, which is fine, or you have to take off a little deeper than everyone else, ride well, be cool and earn respect.

If you're in a crowd with a spoon, you do the same thing. You go farther down the line and take off on shoulders or second and third peaks, which is no harder with a spoon than with a foam board, or you position yourself as deep as, or deeper than, the board surfers. If you surf well and are respectful yourself, most of them will be stoked by you and your spacy board, and they'll give you room. In their eyes, too, you're not kneeling on a surfboard. They're not thinking, When you gonna learn to stand up? You're riding a board that is not like theirs, that obviously can't be ridden standup by you, them or anyone else, and that even does things theirs can't.

Naturally, if you're taking off deep and blow your first or second wave, it's over, spoon or no spoon. Move down the line. But who says you can't ride spoons in crowds? Maybe it started when Greenough said he quit riding Velo because of the crowds. It wasn't that the board couldn't; he couldn't. But it got turned around, and pretty soon spoons needed uncrowded conditions to work. That's another spoon myth that needs to be exploded.

[Flexman]

.

[walt davidson]

[red]

Tumak,
No one said kneeboarding emulation of progressive standup surfing is ideal - it's just where our design, contest and history in the context of standup surfing has directed us.


My 2 cents:
Now that surfing has become mainstream and industry-driven, (and consequently relatively boring) possibly kneeboarding has an opportunity to reclaim its role as the refuge of the extreme, the strange, the innovative, the mysterious outsider (like all surfers used to be regarded).

Will the surf industry eventually come, cap in hand, trying to tap into kneeboarding mystique because it no longer exists in mainstream surfing?

And what will we say then? Give us your money, please? OR
Get stuffed - we're happy without your interference?

History says there will always be people who go for the former and start the next Rip Curl, Quicksilver, O Neill, etc., marketing clothes on the back of the concept of kneeboarders being an extreme, wierd and wonderful bunch (who pull chicks because they kneeboard AND wear such and such brand!).