actually the Bug is perfect, and tweaked for performance on dirt and sand moguls you wouldn't dream of taking a Ferrari on
reveals an interest in teeth rattling speed where gravity and uncertanty is part of the course
Kneeboarding At 3 G's
Moderator: Moderator
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Man O' War
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 555
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Willli -- Must be a characteristic of the species. Check out these pics from lifelong spoon rider George Dayland
http://zshopusa.com/web/web1.htm
http://zshopusa.com/board/board1.htm
http://zshopusa.com/rally/rally1.htm
http://zshopusa.com/3boards/3bds1.htm
http://zshopusa.com/ds/Starsld2.mpg
http://zshopusa.com/web/web1.htm
http://zshopusa.com/board/board1.htm
http://zshopusa.com/rally/rally1.htm
http://zshopusa.com/3boards/3bds1.htm
http://zshopusa.com/ds/Starsld2.mpg
Group 3 (of 4) - 1971 to 1974
Here's some pics of Group 3 of 4 (1971-1974).
[Note: Group 4 (1994-1998) was posted as the first group in this thread]
The board on the far left ["Irwin"--from the comic strip "Broom Hilda"] is essentially an enlarged version of the "Glass Egg" updated with a center section with deep knee wells. It was built in 1971, apparently just before leashes appeared as the glass filament tape I subsequently used to add a leash is visible at the top of the board.
However, somewhere between "Pantagruel" (see Group 2) and Irwin, should be a Greenough "replica" (the "Spoon"). Select Surf Shop in Pacific Beach was selling an alleged copy of one of George's spoons (pre the "edge" version). Since I was curious about how they rode, I bought one, built a female mold off of it, built the "Spoon" off of that mold, then sold the replica (and the mold got used as a sand slider). I couldn't include it in the Group 3 pics, nor can I give its dimenisions, since it is presently on loan to RW. However, I will try to get a pic or two, and make measurements, as soon as I get an opportunity.
Both Stan Pleskunas and I rode it, but probably never in the same type/quality waves that George did. On these lesser waves, our impression was that the round chines detracted from the planing performance and thus limited the speed. To test this hypothesis, we taped some lengths of thick wire along the round chines to serve as sort of separation points/spray rails/hard-edges on the chines. This improved the speed of the board, so for a more permanent "fix" I then bonded longitudinal strips of foam to the chines, tapering them from top (thin) to bottom (thick) in the fashion of the "clinker" type construction of a boat hull (and similar to the overlap of rows of shingles a roof).
At this year's OB contest I asked RW how he liked the board, but he said that there hadn't been the right kind of waves for it yet.
The second board from the left, "Isurus" [genus for the Mako shark] was a board intended for large or fast waves. It was built in 1971. As with a number of my other boards, the outline and rocker were shaped with my homemade shaping maching ("Hobbit"). On this particular board, I had the bottom shaped by Steve Lis to my specs and I shaped the top. This was the first board that I shaped with a thumb grip channel along interior edge of each of the rails (something incorporated into most of my subsequent boards)...
...as a safer alternative to the handle on "Pantagruel". This is the board I was riding in my earlier post in which I mentioned a pair of pictures Jeff Divine took at Big Drakes.
All the boards up to, and including, "Isurus" had single fins. My first experiment with twin fins was with "Broom Hilda"--the third board from the left. One motivation for changing to two fins was the exceptionally wide tail I wanted to try. It was also the first board that I built with a (single) concave bottom (full length, but increasing with proximity to the stern). It was hurriedly built in 1972 as a sort of a "spur of the moment" idea and so I didn't take the time to shape a center section with deep knee wells. It was built out of the remains of a tandem blank, which put some constraints on the planform toward the nose, and also limited the nose kick to something only marginally better than on the old "Glass Pearl". Nevertheless, the ease with which it would glide over the water was like the revelation of a new "truth" to me--and all my subsequent kneeboards have had similarly shaped tails and twin fins.
The first of these "new" boards was "Cetor" (abbreviation of the genus for the whale shark). It was built in 1973 and is the rightmost board in the pair of Group 3 pics above (and also the leftmost board in the Group 4 pic). I liked this board a lot, and it was my primary board from 1973 to about 1994. With the addition of Cypselurus (Group 4) in 1994, I rode Cetor about 50% of the time between 1994 and 1998. Hence it served me well for about 20-24 years (which also accounts for the more numerous evidence of usage visible on the hull).
In the bottom view, you can see a repair (actually the end product of several repairs) on Cetor involving the left fin. Since on the twin fin the fin attached to an area of only sheet glass, it was necessary to glass on the fins, rather than use a box. At the same time, one wanted to minimize the effect of the presence of the fin on the flex in the tail. The compromise was to glass on only a portion (1/2 to 2/3) of the base of the fin, and it took a number of tries to figure out how to make a joint that would tolerate the stresses imposed on the fin.
Dimensions (left to right: Irwin, Isurus, Broom Hilda. Cetor dim in Grp 4):
Length: 62-1/2", 62-1/2", 62"
Max Width: 21-1/2", 19-1/4", 22-5/8"
Nose Width: 19-1/2", 17-1/4", 18-1/4"
Tail Width: 17-3/8", 13-1/2", 20"
The final picture in this group...
...is "Pelamis" [genus of the yellow-bellied sea snake--the bottom of the board is yellow]. This is a foam, non-flex, and somewhat narrower version of Cetor. It was built in 1974 with the hope of having a faster paddling board that would cope better with crowds than did Cetor. It was also an experiment with materials. Although the core is Clark foam, everything else (epoxy resin, glass, FeatherFill, paint, etc.) are the construction materials for a home built airplane that I was going to build, and I wanted a little bit of experience with these materials before I started on the plane.
It turned out that the FeatherFill--although easy to apply (sprayed on) and a joy to sand--was marginal in its adhesion to the epoxy and would peel off over time. This is what accounts for the blotchy appearance in the pic.
If I had the board in hand, I would have given it a fresh paint job before posting the pic. But it is on loan (to a bodyboarding Baja travel bud of mine who expressed an interest in expanding to kneeboarding), so I had to go with a pic of it that I already had.
An interesting aside is that Rusty was just getting into shaping at this time and offered to shape the bottom for free to get some experience at shaping "bowl" noses (he did a great job).
Its dimensions:
Length: 64"
Max Width: 20-3/8"
Nose Width: 18-1/2"
Tail Width: 17"
Following these boards, I didn't build any new boards until in the early to late 1990's. The first of these was the "BodKne" board--a combo kneeboard and bodyboard (a hard bottom/soft top, oversize bodyboard with removable fins. The latter could be removed or installed in the water, and stored in recessed pockets at the front of the board).
The BodKne board was followed by three new kneeboards (Cypselurus II, Red October, and Black November--all in the Group 4 pics). In 1998, my interests turned to the development of a paddle-in, highly maneuverable, hydrofoil paipo (and perhaps knee) board and I haven't built anything but hydrofoil boards since then (7 completed, maybe an equal number partially built).
[Note: Group 4 (1994-1998) was posted as the first group in this thread]
The board on the far left ["Irwin"--from the comic strip "Broom Hilda"] is essentially an enlarged version of the "Glass Egg" updated with a center section with deep knee wells. It was built in 1971, apparently just before leashes appeared as the glass filament tape I subsequently used to add a leash is visible at the top of the board.
However, somewhere between "Pantagruel" (see Group 2) and Irwin, should be a Greenough "replica" (the "Spoon"). Select Surf Shop in Pacific Beach was selling an alleged copy of one of George's spoons (pre the "edge" version). Since I was curious about how they rode, I bought one, built a female mold off of it, built the "Spoon" off of that mold, then sold the replica (and the mold got used as a sand slider). I couldn't include it in the Group 3 pics, nor can I give its dimenisions, since it is presently on loan to RW. However, I will try to get a pic or two, and make measurements, as soon as I get an opportunity.
Both Stan Pleskunas and I rode it, but probably never in the same type/quality waves that George did. On these lesser waves, our impression was that the round chines detracted from the planing performance and thus limited the speed. To test this hypothesis, we taped some lengths of thick wire along the round chines to serve as sort of separation points/spray rails/hard-edges on the chines. This improved the speed of the board, so for a more permanent "fix" I then bonded longitudinal strips of foam to the chines, tapering them from top (thin) to bottom (thick) in the fashion of the "clinker" type construction of a boat hull (and similar to the overlap of rows of shingles a roof).
At this year's OB contest I asked RW how he liked the board, but he said that there hadn't been the right kind of waves for it yet.
The second board from the left, "Isurus" [genus for the Mako shark] was a board intended for large or fast waves. It was built in 1971. As with a number of my other boards, the outline and rocker were shaped with my homemade shaping maching ("Hobbit"). On this particular board, I had the bottom shaped by Steve Lis to my specs and I shaped the top. This was the first board that I shaped with a thumb grip channel along interior edge of each of the rails (something incorporated into most of my subsequent boards)...
...as a safer alternative to the handle on "Pantagruel". This is the board I was riding in my earlier post in which I mentioned a pair of pictures Jeff Divine took at Big Drakes.
All the boards up to, and including, "Isurus" had single fins. My first experiment with twin fins was with "Broom Hilda"--the third board from the left. One motivation for changing to two fins was the exceptionally wide tail I wanted to try. It was also the first board that I built with a (single) concave bottom (full length, but increasing with proximity to the stern). It was hurriedly built in 1972 as a sort of a "spur of the moment" idea and so I didn't take the time to shape a center section with deep knee wells. It was built out of the remains of a tandem blank, which put some constraints on the planform toward the nose, and also limited the nose kick to something only marginally better than on the old "Glass Pearl". Nevertheless, the ease with which it would glide over the water was like the revelation of a new "truth" to me--and all my subsequent kneeboards have had similarly shaped tails and twin fins.
The first of these "new" boards was "Cetor" (abbreviation of the genus for the whale shark). It was built in 1973 and is the rightmost board in the pair of Group 3 pics above (and also the leftmost board in the Group 4 pic). I liked this board a lot, and it was my primary board from 1973 to about 1994. With the addition of Cypselurus (Group 4) in 1994, I rode Cetor about 50% of the time between 1994 and 1998. Hence it served me well for about 20-24 years (which also accounts for the more numerous evidence of usage visible on the hull).
In the bottom view, you can see a repair (actually the end product of several repairs) on Cetor involving the left fin. Since on the twin fin the fin attached to an area of only sheet glass, it was necessary to glass on the fins, rather than use a box. At the same time, one wanted to minimize the effect of the presence of the fin on the flex in the tail. The compromise was to glass on only a portion (1/2 to 2/3) of the base of the fin, and it took a number of tries to figure out how to make a joint that would tolerate the stresses imposed on the fin.
Dimensions (left to right: Irwin, Isurus, Broom Hilda. Cetor dim in Grp 4):
Length: 62-1/2", 62-1/2", 62"
Max Width: 21-1/2", 19-1/4", 22-5/8"
Nose Width: 19-1/2", 17-1/4", 18-1/4"
Tail Width: 17-3/8", 13-1/2", 20"
The final picture in this group...
...is "Pelamis" [genus of the yellow-bellied sea snake--the bottom of the board is yellow]. This is a foam, non-flex, and somewhat narrower version of Cetor. It was built in 1974 with the hope of having a faster paddling board that would cope better with crowds than did Cetor. It was also an experiment with materials. Although the core is Clark foam, everything else (epoxy resin, glass, FeatherFill, paint, etc.) are the construction materials for a home built airplane that I was going to build, and I wanted a little bit of experience with these materials before I started on the plane.
It turned out that the FeatherFill--although easy to apply (sprayed on) and a joy to sand--was marginal in its adhesion to the epoxy and would peel off over time. This is what accounts for the blotchy appearance in the pic.
If I had the board in hand, I would have given it a fresh paint job before posting the pic. But it is on loan (to a bodyboarding Baja travel bud of mine who expressed an interest in expanding to kneeboarding), so I had to go with a pic of it that I already had.
An interesting aside is that Rusty was just getting into shaping at this time and offered to shape the bottom for free to get some experience at shaping "bowl" noses (he did a great job).
Its dimensions:
Length: 64"
Max Width: 20-3/8"
Nose Width: 18-1/2"
Tail Width: 17"
Following these boards, I didn't build any new boards until in the early to late 1990's. The first of these was the "BodKne" board--a combo kneeboard and bodyboard (a hard bottom/soft top, oversize bodyboard with removable fins. The latter could be removed or installed in the water, and stored in recessed pockets at the front of the board).
The BodKne board was followed by three new kneeboards (Cypselurus II, Red October, and Black November--all in the Group 4 pics). In 1998, my interests turned to the development of a paddle-in, highly maneuverable, hydrofoil paipo (and perhaps knee) board and I haven't built anything but hydrofoil boards since then (7 completed, maybe an equal number partially built).
Experience gained is in proportion to equipment ruined.
(OT)Surfing/off-road travel...Step Into Liquid/Dust to Glory
Man O' War wrote:MTB -- That last set of pictures is really something. Shouldn't there be a Ferrari behind them?
willli wrote:actually the Bug is perfect, and tweaked for performance on dirt and sand moguls you wouldn't dream of taking a Ferrari on
reveals an interest in teeth rattling speed where gravity and uncertanty is part of the course
Thanks for the links Man O' War--love the pit crew! Willi is right. I use the Baja Bug (essentially a now out-of-date SCORE Class 5-1600 race car--but with an 1835cc) for trips to Baja. Works great for 1 person, starts to become space limited for 2 persons. Driven moderately it seems to be about twice the speed of the typical 4x4 (not driven "enthusiastically") on the less well used fish camp and ranch roads (in large part limited by the need to slow down where one can't determine if there is any oncoming traffic).Man O' War wrote:Willli -- Must be a characteristic of the species. Check out these pics from lifelong spoon rider George Dayland...<list of links follows>...
On a different tack...and FWIW:
As I'm sure everyone knows, Bruce Brown made "Endless Summer", then followed it by the very well received movie "On Any Sunday". The latter focused on enthusiasts of motorcycle hill climbs and desert motorcycle races.
Perhaps less well known is that his son, Dana Brown, has followed up "Step Into Liquid" with the movie "Dust to Glory". The latter is now making the first showing rounds at Landmark theaters. The movie is based on the 2003 Baja 1000 and has gotten rave reviews from my off-road racing friends as capturing the spirit of the B1K races.
To film it, they used 55 cameras (some in race car, or helmet mounted on motorcycle riders), 4 helicopters, 2 race cars, and heaven only knows how many people. It runs for an hour and thirty-eight minutes, and I enjoyed it alot!
If you're interested in seeing it, you can check the Dust to Glory web site:
http://www.d2gfilm.com/home/
Then click on "Theater Finder" on the bottom of the screen to find out where it is being shown and when (typically Friday thru the following Thursday at each theater). (Note: the home page is very slow loading if you're on dial-up...and yes, the yellow bar does have to go all the way across the screen to finish loading the page).
Then check the Landmark theater web site to find the show times, ticket price, etc. for the theater near you:
http://www.landmarktheaters.com/
I understand that it will be available on DVD, but perhaps not very soon.
Last edited by MTBarrels on Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Experience gained is in proportion to equipment ruined.
-
tumak
- Local (More than 25 post)
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- Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 6:54 am
- Location: Indian Harbour Beach, FL
SURFER Magazine, Volume 11, Number 6, January 1971, pp. 62-67, in an article entitled, Omni: is this some of the same stuff? Sure looks like it! I see two boards in the old mag that appear identical to two boards posted here. Nice work.
"Imprisonment in the contemporary is the worst of all intellectual tyrannies." -Weston La Barre
Yup. You're right (good memory and powers of observation tumak!). But I'd just as soon forget the Omni as I never got everything working properly. Thanks for the volume/issue number. I'll have to keep that info in mind when/if I ever find enough time to rummage through my old issues. Hope I got the board dates approximately right--but I think at least the sequence is correct.tumak wrote:SURFER Magazine, Volume 11, Number 6, January 1971, pp. 62-67, in an article entitled, Omni: is this some of the same stuff? Sure looks like it! I see two boards in the old mag that appear identical to two boards posted here. Nice work.
Experience gained is in proportion to equipment ruined.
-
hart
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:46 pm
- Location: Dee Why, Sydney.
Re: question
MTBMTBarrels wrote: ..<snipped>..
This additional loading causes the wetted rail area of the board to flex--essentially making the wetted area act like a board with "V" in the tail..
but without the adverse affects on speed when driving across the face of a wave.
Thanks for your detailed answer..
and at the risk of pre-empting you with my question, I did not want to mention the Vee word (cause it seems so many guys still have a problem with this) yet I saw it coming
And you in fact, have mentioned it..and it has been a strong consideration in your design.
At the very least to accept it, but not necessarily want its inherent negative values to overcome the positives.
Therefore, you have introduced the Vee Principle in the correct fashion..for the benefit of surfing and the surfer
I continue to enjoy your work
hart
ps
and "that pit crew.."
-
RW
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:39 am
- Location: Pt. Loma
- Contact:
<<<<<<<EDIT>>>>>>>
Here in SD, at the mere mention of Terry's name, guy's drop to their knees, light devotive candles, burn incense, and mumble all kinds of stuff to themselves. Little is known of him outside this area in the international KB community, but those who count in the industry.....know all about him. He's GG's creative twin brother walking a parallel path of exploration and creativity....simple as that.
Terry is...frickin' mindblowing. Spending one day with him will tweak everything you thought you knew about design theories and leave you stumbling around in a daze for weeks. Sadly I've watched many engage him in conversation and when, as it always does, it shifts to his work, he get's tuned out as most cannot comprehend anything he is saying. It's disappointing to watch this happen to one of the most remarakable and industrious innovators of all time within both the standup and KB communities.
The best way for me to sum this up is to say that there was Greenough up north....and Hendricks down here. Contemporary peers, collaborating pioneers, different flex theories. Terry had a big influence on this area's shapers with his purest experimentation during that mid to late sixties explosion...well into the seventies; Castor, Frye, Lis, Rusty, Eaton, The Tinkler Bro's, Pendo, even Toby...it keeps going.
<<<<<<<EDIT>>>>>>>
Terry's your man.....ask for his input as all the legitimate shapers around here have done. He'll point you in the right directions.
Here in SD, at the mere mention of Terry's name, guy's drop to their knees, light devotive candles, burn incense, and mumble all kinds of stuff to themselves. Little is known of him outside this area in the international KB community, but those who count in the industry.....know all about him. He's GG's creative twin brother walking a parallel path of exploration and creativity....simple as that.
Terry is...frickin' mindblowing. Spending one day with him will tweak everything you thought you knew about design theories and leave you stumbling around in a daze for weeks. Sadly I've watched many engage him in conversation and when, as it always does, it shifts to his work, he get's tuned out as most cannot comprehend anything he is saying. It's disappointing to watch this happen to one of the most remarakable and industrious innovators of all time within both the standup and KB communities.
The best way for me to sum this up is to say that there was Greenough up north....and Hendricks down here. Contemporary peers, collaborating pioneers, different flex theories. Terry had a big influence on this area's shapers with his purest experimentation during that mid to late sixties explosion...well into the seventies; Castor, Frye, Lis, Rusty, Eaton, The Tinkler Bro's, Pendo, even Toby...it keeps going.
<<<<<<<EDIT>>>>>>>
Terry's your man.....ask for his input as all the legitimate shapers around here have done. He'll point you in the right directions.
Last edited by RW on Tue May 03, 2005 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
Man O' War
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:57 pm
- Location: Miami FL
RW - A+ post. Thanks for taking the time. That one needs five good reads.
Some comments from the many things that could be said:
(1) the ringing endorsement of Terry (MTB); you really filled us in on a guy who has already poured his heart and soul into several posts on this website. It would be an honor for us to have him influence whatever direction this finally takes. Terry, just keep giving input, whether there's a response or not. RW, I hope you'll do the same. The amount of new information and the quality photos that have been shared here in the last couple of days has been incredible.
(2) I don't buy into this "funding" project. It's a mainstream commercial mentality. Just go out and do it like the few dedicated guys sharing info on here. This idea started as a total misunderstanding. I said something way back at the beginning of this thread that got misconstrued. What I said was, what if we could pay a guy for five years to do nothing but R & D on kneeboards, and imagine he was an engineering/hydrodynamics whiz to boot -- what would happen? Then I said, that's already happened: Greenough did all that and was all that. Result: Velo and on from there. I was trying to say that the testing has been done, the theories have been worked out, and there it is, ready to go. What are we waiting for? Someone jumped to the conclusion that I was suggesting a funding project when what I meant was, let's not reinvent the wheel.
(3) Needless to say this process gave me more insight and tactile information about GG's laminate theories than anything yet posted on this or it's sister threads on this site, all the articles wriitten in Surfer Magazine to date, even Paul's detailed elaborations on George and the laminant process in the Surfer's Journal and elsewhere didn't justify hands on comprehension. It's more about my intuitive processing than the info everyone has shared over time. We really need you to share your knowledge, "we" being shapers, backyard shapers, or anyone just interested in a better understanding of spoon mechanics. There will be people hanging on every word. You'd be doing a big service to this whole community. A good place to put it would be the "Spoon Fed" string.
Thanks again. I look forward to hearing more from you.
Some comments from the many things that could be said:
(1) the ringing endorsement of Terry (MTB); you really filled us in on a guy who has already poured his heart and soul into several posts on this website. It would be an honor for us to have him influence whatever direction this finally takes. Terry, just keep giving input, whether there's a response or not. RW, I hope you'll do the same. The amount of new information and the quality photos that have been shared here in the last couple of days has been incredible.
(2) I don't buy into this "funding" project. It's a mainstream commercial mentality. Just go out and do it like the few dedicated guys sharing info on here. This idea started as a total misunderstanding. I said something way back at the beginning of this thread that got misconstrued. What I said was, what if we could pay a guy for five years to do nothing but R & D on kneeboards, and imagine he was an engineering/hydrodynamics whiz to boot -- what would happen? Then I said, that's already happened: Greenough did all that and was all that. Result: Velo and on from there. I was trying to say that the testing has been done, the theories have been worked out, and there it is, ready to go. What are we waiting for? Someone jumped to the conclusion that I was suggesting a funding project when what I meant was, let's not reinvent the wheel.
(3) Needless to say this process gave me more insight and tactile information about GG's laminate theories than anything yet posted on this or it's sister threads on this site, all the articles wriitten in Surfer Magazine to date, even Paul's detailed elaborations on George and the laminant process in the Surfer's Journal and elsewhere didn't justify hands on comprehension. It's more about my intuitive processing than the info everyone has shared over time. We really need you to share your knowledge, "we" being shapers, backyard shapers, or anyone just interested in a better understanding of spoon mechanics. There will be people hanging on every word. You'd be doing a big service to this whole community. A good place to put it would be the "Spoon Fed" string.
Thanks again. I look forward to hearing more from you.
WOW!
I just found this thread. I never even knew of other spooners in SD.
MTB - awesome boards I have to reread this a couple of times to partially digest all that you have done!
RW - A well kept secret
I guess I came from the Greenough school - the only one I even knew existed.
Board size : I don't think that board size with spoons is nearly as important as with foam boards. Since flotation and paddling are not issues with a spoon it is only riding that counts - no compromise for ease of paddling. The flex needs to be appropriate for your weight, not the size of the board. That was what Greenough's comment about riding or paddling was about.
If you want the ultimte wave-riding vehicle paddling is not even taken into consideration.
I'm 5'11" and 190 lbs and favorite spoon is 19.5 X 60" with NO flotation.
Easy takeoffs, planes easily, super fast and super manueverable. Don't the guys that do tow-in surfing ride smaller than normal boards? There must be a reason. If paddling and being able to sit on your board was NOT a consideration what size board would you ride?
If you don't have the right waves for a spoon don't bother. Especially a Velo type spoon, which in my experience is the most demanding of quality, point-break waves.
I was very lucky in that thru the '70's and '80's I rode killer Malibu, Pt. Mugu and Rincon totally alone or with a couple of friends! A little Ranch too but that was more crowded.
But George, how could you ride Malibu on a big South swell all alone?
Easy and one of the many advantages of riding a spoon - at night. That's right - at NIGHT. Imagine perfect Malibu or Rincon and there is no one else out! or with your one buddy on a spoon. Just ride waves and paddle back out. Every wave is yours. Glowing, luminous tracks. No one snaking you. No one to snake. Visibility - no problem - no moon needed. Just sit inside, which you can do on a spoon and line yourself up with the breaking wave.
At Malibu trangulate with the colony and lights on the hill to lineup in the right spot. Rincon is a little more of an adventure. When you are out at the Indicator you are really out in the ocean. At dawn when you see the first surfer walking up the beach you know it is time to call it a night.
Those are the only 2 spots we rode at night but really given the choice where else would you choose to ride? Spoons were made for Malibu and Rincon! or is it Malibu and Rincon were made for spoons?
I just found this thread. I never even knew of other spooners in SD.
MTB - awesome boards I have to reread this a couple of times to partially digest all that you have done!
RW - A well kept secret
I guess I came from the Greenough school - the only one I even knew existed.
Board size : I don't think that board size with spoons is nearly as important as with foam boards. Since flotation and paddling are not issues with a spoon it is only riding that counts - no compromise for ease of paddling. The flex needs to be appropriate for your weight, not the size of the board. That was what Greenough's comment about riding or paddling was about.
If you want the ultimte wave-riding vehicle paddling is not even taken into consideration.
I'm 5'11" and 190 lbs and favorite spoon is 19.5 X 60" with NO flotation.
Easy takeoffs, planes easily, super fast and super manueverable. Don't the guys that do tow-in surfing ride smaller than normal boards? There must be a reason. If paddling and being able to sit on your board was NOT a consideration what size board would you ride?
Totally agree on all points.RW said:
hings to think about:
Riding a spoon in humongous closed out beachbreak is not riding a spoon.
Riding a spoon at a Pipeline type wave is not riding a spoon.
Riding a spoon is as much a mental excercise as well as a physical task of love, both need lots of room to function freely.
Consider these three thoughts before buying one.
Lastly, in all seriousness....you have not rounded out your surf experience until you've ridden a spoon in good conditions.
If you don't have the right waves for a spoon don't bother. Especially a Velo type spoon, which in my experience is the most demanding of quality, point-break waves.
I was very lucky in that thru the '70's and '80's I rode killer Malibu, Pt. Mugu and Rincon totally alone or with a couple of friends! A little Ranch too but that was more crowded.
But George, how could you ride Malibu on a big South swell all alone?
Easy and one of the many advantages of riding a spoon - at night. That's right - at NIGHT. Imagine perfect Malibu or Rincon and there is no one else out! or with your one buddy on a spoon. Just ride waves and paddle back out. Every wave is yours. Glowing, luminous tracks. No one snaking you. No one to snake. Visibility - no problem - no moon needed. Just sit inside, which you can do on a spoon and line yourself up with the breaking wave.
At Malibu trangulate with the colony and lights on the hill to lineup in the right spot. Rincon is a little more of an adventure. When you are out at the Indicator you are really out in the ocean. At dawn when you see the first surfer walking up the beach you know it is time to call it a night.
Those are the only 2 spots we rode at night but really given the choice where else would you choose to ride? Spoons were made for Malibu and Rincon! or is it Malibu and Rincon were made for spoons?
Living the Greenough Legacy...and beyond
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Man O' War
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The question at the top of this thread, "Is Kneeboarding in a Tail Slide?," has been answered NO. So that phrase scrolling up every day just isn't right.
Using my powers of Edit, I've done my best to put things right. What do you gentlemen think?
Using my powers of Edit, I've done my best to put things right. What do you gentlemen think?
Last edited by Man O' War on Sun May 01, 2005 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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surfhorn
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Flexspoon is dead on about riding Malibu and Rincon at night. I lived in that area 1979-84 and regularly KBed those spots at night.
First I was riding my 5'2"x 19 1/2" tri with my twangy 12" flex fin, a board that was developed to ride Moss Landing and other power spots around the Monterey Bay. I switched to a 5'5" fish for SoCal waves....it was difficult giving up those square power turns but I'd rather ride waves than do just one turn. When thrusters were introduced, I kept John Mel busy cutting various templates, looking for a thruster KB that smoked.
I was very fortunate to catch those huge swells of 1982 and surfed Rincon really big.......stayed at a friend's house (third off the point). Punched out at 4 Am and surfed nonstop until 11 AM.........huge waves all the way to Highway 1 then run back up the point and punch out again. Nice to have 12-15+ faces with no one in the line up to mess up the face.
Malibu at night was still crowded. During one massive South, I turned up at 5AM in the morning and there were dozens of people out: by light, over 250 ( I counted). But I was catching waves out at Third Point and going all the way through. I was pushing my fish in front of me a la a spoon and beat all the LBer for any wave I wanted.
As I got to the shortboard takeoff spot outside Second Point, I'd just built as much speed as I could and then bottom turn and aim at the lip and everyone trying to paddle in-----they all backed off due to how fast I was traveling..............a spoon would, indeed, have been the weapon of choice if I had one. It was all about speed........and more speed - -closer to 6th gear.
Another night time spot was Topanga. With the street and head lights lights off of PCH, the face was always illuminated. I worked as a sushi chef across the street at Something's Fishy Here and, when I got off at 11PM, would suit up and dash across PCH for some solitary waves. Of course, I'd be fried for my day job as a natl' park ranger in downtown LA.
A world class point break with a speed demon spoon can't be matched.
First I was riding my 5'2"x 19 1/2" tri with my twangy 12" flex fin, a board that was developed to ride Moss Landing and other power spots around the Monterey Bay. I switched to a 5'5" fish for SoCal waves....it was difficult giving up those square power turns but I'd rather ride waves than do just one turn. When thrusters were introduced, I kept John Mel busy cutting various templates, looking for a thruster KB that smoked.
I was very fortunate to catch those huge swells of 1982 and surfed Rincon really big.......stayed at a friend's house (third off the point). Punched out at 4 Am and surfed nonstop until 11 AM.........huge waves all the way to Highway 1 then run back up the point and punch out again. Nice to have 12-15+ faces with no one in the line up to mess up the face.
Malibu at night was still crowded. During one massive South, I turned up at 5AM in the morning and there were dozens of people out: by light, over 250 ( I counted). But I was catching waves out at Third Point and going all the way through. I was pushing my fish in front of me a la a spoon and beat all the LBer for any wave I wanted.
As I got to the shortboard takeoff spot outside Second Point, I'd just built as much speed as I could and then bottom turn and aim at the lip and everyone trying to paddle in-----they all backed off due to how fast I was traveling..............a spoon would, indeed, have been the weapon of choice if I had one. It was all about speed........and more speed - -closer to 6th gear.
Another night time spot was Topanga. With the street and head lights lights off of PCH, the face was always illuminated. I worked as a sushi chef across the street at Something's Fishy Here and, when I got off at 11PM, would suit up and dash across PCH for some solitary waves. Of course, I'd be fried for my day job as a natl' park ranger in downtown LA.
A world class point break with a speed demon spoon can't be matched.
kbing since plywood days
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RW
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Man O' War wrote:The question at the top of this thread, "Is Kneeboarding in a Tail Slide?," has been answered NO. So that phrase scrolling up every day just isn't right.
BAD CALL.
That title ellicited all the response generated. If I had seen this title, regardless of terry's persuasion, I would never have replied.....
I feel like I've been hornswaggled.
Put back the original.
That is the topic I addressed.....the powers of delete work for me too.
shoulder huggin' chickens
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Man O' War
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Dear RW,
Pretty funny but no way. Your own post is one of the reasons that question is now out of line.
-Mark
Pretty funny but no way. Your own post is one of the reasons that question is now out of line.
That's what we're doing, so just back away slowly from that Delete and let yourself be overpowered.Put back the original.
-Mark
Last edited by Man O' War on Mon May 02, 2005 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tumak
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I like the provocative nature of the first title. Yes, it revealed a mass interest that deviates from the status quo, which appears to show that KB'ing is NOT in a tailslide...but it is in a tailslide until those who are wired to live the spoonist life are riding spoons.
We as humans tend towards entropy and must be shaken out of the doldrums from time to time. Mark, that's what you did by posting a provocative title. That was right.
The way it looks to me is that KB'ing is evolving into two 21st century species. In fact, perhaps kneeboarding and spooning are two different species already. Perhaps there's kneeboard surfing and then there's spoon surfing... two distinct forms. One is foamy, too long, and comfy, while the other is bold, brazen, inventive, hard edged, and retro-minded and future-thinking at the same time.
Hey Spoonists, far and wide, look brightly at your life and sing the song of independence NOW! Connect with your heart and bond with the august pioneers of Spoonology...GROOVE!... and don't delay!
We as humans tend towards entropy and must be shaken out of the doldrums from time to time. Mark, that's what you did by posting a provocative title. That was right.
The way it looks to me is that KB'ing is evolving into two 21st century species. In fact, perhaps kneeboarding and spooning are two different species already. Perhaps there's kneeboard surfing and then there's spoon surfing... two distinct forms. One is foamy, too long, and comfy, while the other is bold, brazen, inventive, hard edged, and retro-minded and future-thinking at the same time.
Hey Spoonists, far and wide, look brightly at your life and sing the song of independence NOW! Connect with your heart and bond with the august pioneers of Spoonology...GROOVE!... and don't delay!
"Imprisonment in the contemporary is the worst of all intellectual tyrannies." -Weston La Barre