Bottom line, its not about
Its ALL about 
Kneeboarding At 3 G's
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DrStrange
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The way I look at spoons is it isn't about the look. It's about the feel. Smooooooth, thru the water rather than over it, more part of the wave. Steady G-force acceleration. It's not stand up and was ever intended to be and doesn't pretend to immitate that style. Have ridden one in 1/4 century but yeah they proly are much better in juice but the modified should be lots of fun in the medium small stuff.
Bottom line, its not about Its ALL about
Bottom line, its not about
Its ALL about -
Jack Beresford
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spoon
Talk is cheap - I'm a "show me" guy. Would someone please post a recent photo of someone putting a spoon through its paces?
Doubting Thomas Beresford
Doubting Thomas Beresford
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AM_Glass
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There are a few pics in the Photo Gallery taken by JonManns of the MOW spoon in use. I wouldn't say it was "taken through it's paces" but at least they're modern shots. I got a chance to ride it this week and was interested/intimidated. First, I have 15 years surfing experience with only 2 months or so on a Kneeboard so I'm not the best judge, but... I first paddeld out on my 5'8" at a "new to me" hollow'ish wedging reef. I got a few rides and was comfortable with the spot when the spoon was pushed my way. First impression was that I was a sinking duck. Deep in the water trying to push around this big flat sheet. The first few waves I caught I was to the bottom before I felt I had caught the wave and just bellyed out of them. Once I got the feel I got up early and came off the bottom of the wave grabbing the rail and turning hard, too hard. The board flexed with my pull and I went right out the top. The next wave I relaxed alittle and rode it down the line better. I pulled into a tiny barrel and could feel the board move and flex under me. I stayed in the "barrel" as it shrank to the shallow part of the reef and kept going untill it pushed me to the bottom and out of the wave. So, Hard to paddle, Hard to catch waves, and different feel from a regular foam board. If you like it, do it. As for me I still want to make one for myself and keep experimenting. Who cares what the Marketing Value is. I'd rather my surfing look boring and be left surfing alone.
It could be worse, I could be in Oakla-homa.
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doc
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Nov, you raise an interesting point. Me, I'm thinking of the spoon as more of a starting point, not the be-all and end-all of design.
The thing is, guys on surfboards have some things they can do that we can't do with a kneeboard. The physics of it are a little different. On the other flipper ( hands, hell, we're kneelos after all ) we can use flexible boards and a few other tricks in ways they can't.
As the thread title goes: Kneeboarding Drives Out Of The Turn At 3 G's - heh...we can do that, they can't. Among other things. Can flex boards give us more speed and power to do, for instance, air sports? Yeah, likely. Though maybe not in, if I may, 'contest waves' - which may be an oxymoron in itself, whatever's available when they hold the contest.
So the question is, what advantages do we have and how do we exploit that. Greenough and Lis and others did that back when, with the spoons and the fish. Bud and several others are doing that now..... and that, I hope, is an ongoing process.
doc...
The thing is, guys on surfboards have some things they can do that we can't do with a kneeboard. The physics of it are a little different. On the other flipper ( hands, hell, we're kneelos after all ) we can use flexible boards and a few other tricks in ways they can't.
As the thread title goes: Kneeboarding Drives Out Of The Turn At 3 G's - heh...we can do that, they can't. Among other things. Can flex boards give us more speed and power to do, for instance, air sports? Yeah, likely. Though maybe not in, if I may, 'contest waves' - which may be an oxymoron in itself, whatever's available when they hold the contest.
So the question is, what advantages do we have and how do we exploit that. Greenough and Lis and others did that back when, with the spoons and the fish. Bud and several others are doing that now..... and that, I hope, is an ongoing process.
doc...
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strudle
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Airs
Be it a spoon, or a regular kneeboard, is there anyone out there pulling good airs and landing them? I'm still a relative beginner so I can't comment much, but it seems to me a "superman air" might be, if not easy, quite possible.
And, is there anyone out there who can do the barrel roll trick with any consistancy?
And, is there anyone out there who can do the barrel roll trick with any consistancy?
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kidrock
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I have read these threads about the validation of the spoon/velo over the last few months, and some of the brethren get really perky about this subject. Some people seem to believe that our future lies in it's past. Others believe that the spoon is what it is---magic in the juice, and not much more than an expensive piece of semi-floating material in average conditions.
There was a thread sometime ago about some enthusiasts shaping quad and/or keel-type fishy spoons. If spoons are truly the future, these shapes seem the logical progression (at this point in time). What I mean to say is, the thinking needs to be "out of the box". Something post-modern---not retro.
MOW and the other spoon advocates are the guys that are really super-knowledgeable and can take it to the next level. When I read what these people know about their sport/art and the equipment, I can unequivocally say that I am probably the most unqualified person to make suggestions about what which direction shaping might go. I've never rode a spoon---I've been a fishy guy since the mid '70's.
I wanna know how these hybrid spoon/fishes are working.
Also---Greenough rode velo in good-sized Rincon back in the day. We know these boards work in juice. The next logical step---how does the spoon work in "Waves of Consequence" (i.e., Mavericks, Jaws, or any other BIG outer reef). Late takeoffs obviously being the order of the day. I believe this would be the next step in proving the validity of the machine, and refining if necessary.
Again, these statements are from a non-shaper. I don't mean to sound as if I'm any type of expert on this subject. It just seems like logic would dictate that this would be our next step.
There was a thread sometime ago about some enthusiasts shaping quad and/or keel-type fishy spoons. If spoons are truly the future, these shapes seem the logical progression (at this point in time). What I mean to say is, the thinking needs to be "out of the box". Something post-modern---not retro.
MOW and the other spoon advocates are the guys that are really super-knowledgeable and can take it to the next level. When I read what these people know about their sport/art and the equipment, I can unequivocally say that I am probably the most unqualified person to make suggestions about what which direction shaping might go. I've never rode a spoon---I've been a fishy guy since the mid '70's.
I wanna know how these hybrid spoon/fishes are working.
Also---Greenough rode velo in good-sized Rincon back in the day. We know these boards work in juice. The next logical step---how does the spoon work in "Waves of Consequence" (i.e., Mavericks, Jaws, or any other BIG outer reef). Late takeoffs obviously being the order of the day. I believe this would be the next step in proving the validity of the machine, and refining if necessary.
Again, these statements are from a non-shaper. I don't mean to sound as if I'm any type of expert on this subject. It just seems like logic would dictate that this would be our next step.
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Man O' War
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Here are a couple of responses to the posts above. I just got back into town after three days of spoon-riding in SC, starting with Scott W's bloody encounter with the reef at Stockton.
Nov has hit on the big difference between glass and foam. If you're thinking trick moves, go with foam (unless someday spoons are made out of new material). The draw of the spoon is the banking turns, which can pretty much be shown in fotos, and the feeling of it all, which can't. As for kids not being attracted to spoons without the big moves, they're already attracted by the board itself. They think it is so cool. I can't tell you how many guys have asked about the spoon in and out of the water, sometimes just curious, other times wanting to hold it and hear about it. It's a magnet.
For Jack, I'm hoping Scott W, when he feels better, digitizes and posts a certain sequence of stills from "Innermost Limits" that will blow all minds. You'll be asking, what kind of a board does THAT? Still, with old photos or new, what happens on a spoon through the deck and in the whole board can't be picked up by a camera on the beach. Even riding the whitewater on your stomach is an experience. To paraphrase one of Jack's favorite saints (Thomas), Riding Is Believing. Sorry, that's the only way to "see," when it comes to these. The same thing might be true of mats.
AMGlass (Travis) did have the spoon pushed at him, just as he said, under bad circumstances and at a tough try-out place. Scott had just gotten hurt and I was going in, so I switched boards with him. My son was watching Travis on one wave and said the same thing: on his bottom turn, he accelerated unexpectedly and went right over the back. Then he started dialing it in and got that barrel, but then I came back out and we switched again. Those were the best waves I'd had it in up to that point, and now I'm more addicted than ever. I switched boards again with Jon Manss, and he caught something inside. For some reason, he went in after the wave and took the board with him up the cliff, which left me sitting out there on his board. Why, Jon, why?...
Later in the day, at a pretty but sketchy Sewer Peak, I got an inside wall that gave me a chance to get a rhythm going on a series of turns, and after that one fast bottom turn straight off the peak that I'll never forget. It went up on rail naturally, felt frictionless, like a blade slicing through the surface. I also had it in some little stuff at 26 Ave.--I struggled but it was still fun. The next day, it was some gnarlier 6-7' waves in a cove near Pacifica. It all confirmed that these boards are for real.
The real testing I'll leave to interested guys like Scott or Jon or Barry, who have the skills to really explore the potential of the spoon, and I'll defer to their judgment.
But good reviews or bad, I plan to make two more, changing nothing but the color. The steps are just sitting in that thread, "How To Build A Spoon." For anyone who's ready, it's all right there.
A PS to Kidrock: It's possible Greenough already thought so far outside the box with Velo that the only way to start talking about the future is to exploit what he first came up with. I know some are going to laugh. That's OK. For those who want another chuckle, I'll say that this is kind of like trying to improve on E=MC2 (or jello or kleenex) before even understanding the original concept. When it comes to shapers willing to experiment with the basic concept, which is what kidrock is suggesting, you've got Bruce Hart and probably Buddy McCray who may be interested in doing something like (but not exactly like) a velo.
Last PS on this my third edit: Personally, I'm not on a crusade to burn foam boards, just to spark interest in spoons so more guys have a chance to try them. I spent most of my SC time hooting two guys ripping on foam boards, Jon and Caveman. Would have been three if it hadn't been for an injury ("Excuse me... while I kiss the sky...")
Nov has hit on the big difference between glass and foam. If you're thinking trick moves, go with foam (unless someday spoons are made out of new material). The draw of the spoon is the banking turns, which can pretty much be shown in fotos, and the feeling of it all, which can't. As for kids not being attracted to spoons without the big moves, they're already attracted by the board itself. They think it is so cool. I can't tell you how many guys have asked about the spoon in and out of the water, sometimes just curious, other times wanting to hold it and hear about it. It's a magnet.
For Jack, I'm hoping Scott W, when he feels better, digitizes and posts a certain sequence of stills from "Innermost Limits" that will blow all minds. You'll be asking, what kind of a board does THAT? Still, with old photos or new, what happens on a spoon through the deck and in the whole board can't be picked up by a camera on the beach. Even riding the whitewater on your stomach is an experience. To paraphrase one of Jack's favorite saints (Thomas), Riding Is Believing. Sorry, that's the only way to "see," when it comes to these. The same thing might be true of mats.
AMGlass (Travis) did have the spoon pushed at him, just as he said, under bad circumstances and at a tough try-out place. Scott had just gotten hurt and I was going in, so I switched boards with him. My son was watching Travis on one wave and said the same thing: on his bottom turn, he accelerated unexpectedly and went right over the back. Then he started dialing it in and got that barrel, but then I came back out and we switched again. Those were the best waves I'd had it in up to that point, and now I'm more addicted than ever. I switched boards again with Jon Manss, and he caught something inside. For some reason, he went in after the wave and took the board with him up the cliff, which left me sitting out there on his board. Why, Jon, why?...
Later in the day, at a pretty but sketchy Sewer Peak, I got an inside wall that gave me a chance to get a rhythm going on a series of turns, and after that one fast bottom turn straight off the peak that I'll never forget. It went up on rail naturally, felt frictionless, like a blade slicing through the surface. I also had it in some little stuff at 26 Ave.--I struggled but it was still fun. The next day, it was some gnarlier 6-7' waves in a cove near Pacifica. It all confirmed that these boards are for real.
The real testing I'll leave to interested guys like Scott or Jon or Barry, who have the skills to really explore the potential of the spoon, and I'll defer to their judgment.
But good reviews or bad, I plan to make two more, changing nothing but the color. The steps are just sitting in that thread, "How To Build A Spoon." For anyone who's ready, it's all right there.
A PS to Kidrock: It's possible Greenough already thought so far outside the box with Velo that the only way to start talking about the future is to exploit what he first came up with. I know some are going to laugh. That's OK. For those who want another chuckle, I'll say that this is kind of like trying to improve on E=MC2 (or jello or kleenex) before even understanding the original concept. When it comes to shapers willing to experiment with the basic concept, which is what kidrock is suggesting, you've got Bruce Hart and probably Buddy McCray who may be interested in doing something like (but not exactly like) a velo.
Last PS on this my third edit: Personally, I'm not on a crusade to burn foam boards, just to spark interest in spoons so more guys have a chance to try them. I spent most of my SC time hooting two guys ripping on foam boards, Jon and Caveman. Would have been three if it hadn't been for an injury ("Excuse me... while I kiss the sky...")
Last edited by Man O' War on Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
If you are not out riding your spoon you can always use it for lawn furniture/meditation/weight bench.
Romo has redone his site - check it out:
http://romanoskykneeboards.com
What flexman said PLUS
Perspective: where and when have you ever seen a spoon ridden?????
Most likely the ONLY place is DVD's and videos that were made over 35 years ago.
How would you feel about kneeboarding or surfing if all you had ever seen was 10 minutes of video from 35+ years ago ?????
360's, 360's off the lip, airs - did all that on the North Shore in 1970. As MOW said that is not what riding a spoon is all about.
You need the waves to get the feeling with a spoon. For a spoon rider that feeling is everything - and it is NOT visible from the beach. And he don't care! A spoon rider rides only for himself. There are no peers, no one to watch, no one to follow, no one to copy. You make your own path.
the path less travelled....
Romo has redone his site - check it out:
http://romanoskykneeboards.com
What flexman said PLUS
Perspective: where and when have you ever seen a spoon ridden?????
Most likely the ONLY place is DVD's and videos that were made over 35 years ago.
How would you feel about kneeboarding or surfing if all you had ever seen was 10 minutes of video from 35+ years ago ?????
360's, 360's off the lip, airs - did all that on the North Shore in 1970. As MOW said that is not what riding a spoon is all about.
You need the waves to get the feeling with a spoon. For a spoon rider that feeling is everything - and it is NOT visible from the beach. And he don't care! A spoon rider rides only for himself. There are no peers, no one to watch, no one to follow, no one to copy. You make your own path.
the path less travelled....
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waka
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kneeboarding past 3 g's
if we all rode the same boards , in the same manner, it would be a very boring world out there.!
i can see both sides of the arguments with spoons v.s foam, as each was built for entirely different reasons.
Surfing in the last 20 years has gone to another level, with all the "skate" moves the younger guys are trying and pulling off, but lets not forget where it all began.
The whole surf industry is focused on different "ideals' in which it is headed, with money making been the main focus.
Tow in surfing , huge airs, live steaming of contests on the internet, it is a totaly different "outlook" to what surfing had back in the 60' , and 70's.
Greenough based his designs on what came and lived in the ocean, that was the reason he was so far ahead for his time.
Keep up the research and design MOW and FLEXMAN, FLEXSPOON.
And any body else out there giving it a nudge.
I would be keen to try a spoon, as i started my surfing life on a mat and then a "belly bogger", so i sort of know the disadvantages of non floating surf devices.
It doesn't hurt to experiment with different equuipment
waka
i can see both sides of the arguments with spoons v.s foam, as each was built for entirely different reasons.
Surfing in the last 20 years has gone to another level, with all the "skate" moves the younger guys are trying and pulling off, but lets not forget where it all began.
The whole surf industry is focused on different "ideals' in which it is headed, with money making been the main focus.
Tow in surfing , huge airs, live steaming of contests on the internet, it is a totaly different "outlook" to what surfing had back in the 60' , and 70's.
Greenough based his designs on what came and lived in the ocean, that was the reason he was so far ahead for his time.
Keep up the research and design MOW and FLEXMAN, FLEXSPOON.
And any body else out there giving it a nudge.
I would be keen to try a spoon, as i started my surfing life on a mat and then a "belly bogger", so i sort of know the disadvantages of non floating surf devices.
It doesn't hurt to experiment with different equuipment
waka
Just call me 'Poppy'
Wandandian Devil
Wandandian Devil
Only got air twice in my life....once was when i hit the lip on a powerful wave and the thing sent me up and fowardFlexman wrote: Is kneeboarding about being a participant in a competitive trick sport?
and "yeeeehaaaar!!!!" pure thrill
....cant make it happen when i want unfortunately....tricks are thrills...they feel thrilling...even when not ment...acrobatic surfing is amazing
i know some old ex kneelos who now longboard on the waves at the tame end of the beach...nice soul surfing...not much adrenalin thrill
spoon surfing has a cooooolneesss about it....but powerful, radical, acrobatic surfing on a kneeboard or a footboard is cool too and its very much got to be based on feel
since spoon surfing has got so much air time @ksusa lately ...then it must be said that many have jumped on the trend that Manowar has fired up...in our small pond this is not that different to jumping on the latest air move trend
its all in the wave and in the water and if ya lucky, the air...its all gooood....no?
merely labled
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Man O' War
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Foam or glass, you've got to admit you're sacrificing something to get something else. Debating whose Something Else is better is enjoyable--the fabled pissing contest--but frustrating if you take it too seriously, because no matter how sold you are on one form, it does have its disadvantages.
There's no way around it: you have to have both until the day (as someone said on this thread a long time ago) they find the silver bullet, the perfect hybrid, the magic board that will do everything. Not in this life. There's a need for both, right?
There's no way around it: you have to have both until the day (as someone said on this thread a long time ago) they find the silver bullet, the perfect hybrid, the magic board that will do everything. Not in this life. There's a need for both, right?
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Beeline2.0
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