"STATE OF S"

[Smokin Rock]

808,
sorry if you thought my pointing out that your grasp of the english language and your grasp of the mentality of some kneeboarders who prefer to remain true to themselves was lacking depth.
it is. on both counts.
what part of promoting kneeboarding as a valid method of surfing do you not approve of?
kneeboarding has always been a valid form of surfing. does it need promotion? in your eyes yes. so promote it. i could care less. what are you gaining by coming onto KSUSA and whining about it. what are you promoting by coming here and telling us we dropped the ball when most of us never picked it up in the first place?
In truth, me not being a kneeboarder, I should defer to your judgment; after all, you have devoted your life to kneeboarding and you don't deem it worthy of center stage, who am I to argue with you that kneeboarding is anything more than a side act? Outrageous I would suggest kneeos could set the pace?
when did i say i did'nt consider it center stage? i have a room full of boards. i live in Hawaii and surf as much as i can. i'm the only kneeboarder in North Hawaii and have gained the respect of most of the surfers at the heaviest breaks. i put my ass on the line every winter.
besides my daughter, kneeboarding is center stage in my life. just because we have different ideas of what the stage should mean does'nt mean that i, or the majority of guys here on this site don't think kneeboarding is life itself.
where do you get off shoving your narrow minded ideal down everyones throat?
This is as simple as I can make it for you... I prefer the well drawn lines of kneeboarding vs. the jumps, hops, trampoline acts present in today's standup surfing. So take me to task.
To me surfing is more about involvement, being a part of the wave than the look at my tricks act. If you can accept this as being a fact, everything else I've said should fall in place for you...... maybe

this summer i surfed G-Land with a guy from Australia named Dayon Neves. it was Dayon, my brother and i at speed reef in super shallow draining pits. Dayon blew everyone away. i've never seen such precise tuberiding. on his backhand. he used his leverage standing up to upmost advantage. stalling and speeding up at will to consistantly stay very deeply pitted on every wave. do kneeboarders have anything on Dayon or A.I. or B.I. or Joel Parkinson or Taj? not now and probably not ever. why would any kid with the enormous talent of the afforementioned chose kneeboarding when all the money, fame and glory is with being a standup.
do you think these guys do jumps, hops and trampoline acts at huge pipe or Tahiti? are you seriously not impressed with the level of surfing these guys display?
so why kneeboard if it's not the best thing going? because we love what we do. it's a feeling. and since i don't care about what the rest of the worlds up to....for me it is the best thing going.
if you have grand schemes for kneeboarding then go for it. but don't tell the people who are perfectly happy where they are that they need to change or that they dropped the ball or something else ridiculous. you have no idea how many underground guys here in Hawaii and around the globe charge death pits and could care less about all the stuff you're talking about. in fact they don't want recognition.
they just want to surf.

[DrStrange]

nah

[808]

Well, if you're surfing GLand, or most of Indo for that matter, you can almost set your watch and time your moves. Not exactly the type of wave one needs spontaneous reaction to. Also, Indo is a lot more like town than country. Which brings us back to the country, with my narrow-minded whine. And since you asked, I enjoy watching talent wherever it's found.

You sound more like someone that feels challenged by a contrasting opinion; do you not allow others to have one? Or are your opinions arrived at with such considerable depth of though that you’ve never concerned yourself with seriously considering someone else’s opinion? How controlling. Must make life much more difficult than necessary carrying so much extra baggage.

I find it much easier to observe actions rather than take someone’s word for it. To that end I would say your actions do not support your words. It takes considerable effort on your part, for someone who does not want recognition, wouldn't you agree? I would suggest to you that maintaining your cherished underground status is in conflict with you announcing to the world - via the WORLD WIDE WEB (that is what WWW stands for right?) what a hard charging cosmic underground unknown soul surfer you are… what a crock.

Smokin how long have you been kneeboarding? I ask due to your complete lack of passion for the endeavor. Are you of limited talent and therefore desire none to rise above you? You're quite quick with the personal attacks, and the only motivation I can think of for such is a selfish personality and a lack of personal confidence. That’s the make up of most people that engage in your tactics.
Just look at what you have to say, you are the center of the universe, you cant express an idea without "I" (sic* you) inserted to the core.. just read it - how many "i"s can one use?
Carry on; everyone should have a nice life, no matter how small.

Maybe I just got in the wrong lineup to suggest kneeboarding could be setting the pace for surfers everywhere.

[808]

Murph, I've never really considered kneeboarders anything beyond another surfer, so if I have missed some drawn line - apologies.

heres my take, kneeboarding (at least that I have observed) has remained rather pure when considered within the whole. The BMX and skateboarding tricks, all the BS that has come surfings way do little for my visual pleasure. The sight of a kneeboarder flippin up the face of Sunset (thanks Bud, it was you I speak of), trun around and drop in with the falling lip, needing to draw the purest of lines to make the wave, thats what I'm talking about.
Also, design is what had me reading this thread. Usually I just read the travel section and move on, but design interests me. Now there was some talk of spoons, and as you may know about the time spoons and longboards were being perfected in design, the flat bottom board took over. From 20 years of the flat bottom we jumped right into the thruster, which is closing in on a 20 year run.
Personally I believe kneeboarding has the single best opportunity to change the face of surfing. Kneeos ride 3, 4, 5, 6 finned boards, spoons maybe (although I haven't seen one ridden for some time)? Anyway, kneeos are at the forefront of design, and could take surfing to its next level. I have no money to gain, the only personal gain I will achive is the benefit of more meaningful surfing.
Maybe I didn't respond well to smokin, but I couldn't help but to get the feeling he's more like the schoolyard bully than a devote kneeo. I could be mistaken, but theres not much evidence to suggest I am. I never liked the BS directed at kneeos from the other guys because they didnt stand up, and this guy reminds me of that same type of person that hassled kneeos because they had a different trip going. He's just hassleing me instead. Thats OK too, but I'd rather talk design and direction than a bunch of pissing... which may be the sour taste you speak of.

Truth is, I could care less who advances surfing, as long as it happens.


Should kneeboarders show up in Hawaii and lay down the tracks that matter, the surfing world could evolve beyond the thruster wiggle, after all real turns take you somewhere.

[RW]

No guys I am me. I do not hide behind psuedonames. De Sade is not in my family tree....but Attila the Hun might be.

Mike, thanks for deleting your ugly post. No need to pursue that avenue with me....or anyone for that matter.

I've no idea who 808 may be. All I see is some guy who brought up a few valid points of reference and some openly fair questions after going through the site as a guest. Why he's received such a callus and hatefull response is soo amazing considering the premises of stewardship that are advocated.

808, stick around man, there's more going on here than the negative wave that just washed over you. Your insight is pretty keen thus far. Yeah man...the spongers did vaporiz our ranks, took away nearly a quarter of a century of new recruits. The future is pretty bleak, especially given the kinda reception you've just encountered. Welcome to state of the art kneeboarding. In a bad way it kinda prooves that Darwin erred in his theory, as some things simply do not evolve, and primordially remain just a nasty.


Dave, yes the stewardship I saw was great. Good job by everyone. It is different as you say. It's more like the Boy Scouts, you know, that father-son thing. Glad we got the issue clarified. Guess I've been discussing the Little League aspects of the same thing all these years. Two entirely different camps and governing roles; both viewed and supported for different reasons within our larger society.That we need both has always been my position. We lost the connecting bridge between both camps with Andersen. Perhaps little Murphy will tie it all together for us as he's got the fire. I'll give you a good heads up when the time is right to head this direction in a couple of months.

I spoke with Simon last week. Seems Oz has a similar thing going on over there with some of the same highlights as this thread. I read the long Wollongong controversy. Seems endemic to both sides of the pond. My head is out of thaat space now. I'm content now to remotely observe from the sidelines with everyone else, surfng and enjoying the sunset of an Era, just watchin' the dinasaurs once agin roam the Earth.


Back on track...I watched the flick again yesterday...it was worse than the first time around....especially in light of all these revealing POV's. Maybe the failure to include everything post Greenough was intential by design once he started poking around.

I do not see passion and enthusiam for KneeBoarding being challenged anywhere in this ongoing discussion. Just thought maybe, given all this resurgence brotherhood stuff, that maybe KneeBoarders as a group would get over the selfcentered Me/ID delema and establish a better foundational basis as a progressive collective that's all. In some ways it miracuously is...but I guess it still isn't the right time yet.....for the big picture to come together.


Shaun keep going kid...you got the stuff allright.


Hele on guys.

[808]

well RW, seems to me you were one of the guys talking about spoons? Had it out lately? It was actually your post which involved me, thanks.
Well, I can honestly thank you for the welcome, mahalo.
So these are the stewards of kneeboarding. I would have thought I'd be singing to the chior, I didn't even get the right church.

[fooj]

RW
Me/Id is good to an extent. It is what makes a guy take off on a Maverick's bomb. It is what makes a guy paddle out in 1 foot HB. It's probably what has kept kneeriding alive this long. But you know that. It would be a good thing to try to pinpoint what needs to be done to keep this kneething going, afterall WE know its a good trip, others don't. Could we start a honey-do list (most of us can understand this sort of thing)? From the simple to the sublime? Certainly many are willing to help, but have no distinct direction. Its OK if it has some esoteric elements but somebody also needs to sweep the floor. I would assume the YOUTH should be the main focus, should we try to trick them, bribe them or what? Lets just all agree that we're ALL assholes and getting old with no group of heir apparents and we need to fix that.

808,
You should know that even if someone absolutely charges and destroys the North Shore, he may not be recognized on a large scale. It all matters where the cameras are pointed and what the journalists are permitted to write. This past winter had a pretty hearty group of half guys around for over a month and I've heard not a peep out of the mainstream skateboard BMX media about them, did you? Of course none were really charging Pipe, Sunset and Waimea, but still they were ripping. Perhaps as more and more gatherings occur season after season the recognition will naturally occur. I'm sure some have plans to return with adjustments using what they've learned on previous NS seasons, equipment and mental adjustments ie ready to charge. This Website started in about 2003 or so which would make it about 2 years old...The TERRIBLE Twos.

[808]

guess we are the same....

jfooj, in the 70's there was a kneeo that killed pipe, also killed a few over inflated egos. To the best of my knowledge, theres been a 30 year silience down there. Bud keeps kneeos in view at Sunset, and that McGuire guy too. I suspected I'd get some of the reception I did, if for no other reason than I stand. Sheez, we're all just surfers in my mind. Thanks for not jumping down my throat.

[RW]

808, Please excuse the gaurd dogs, just don't feed them. Poke around some more as there's lot's going on. It's always good to hear things from the other side to keep ones own perspective's in trim.

The spoon, no, not for awhile....it's being souped up for a deep trip into Baja this winter to remote pointbreaks. I'm foaming just thinking about it and crossing off the days to mid Jan.

Can I interest you in a pair of fins and a used stick?





Jeff, I agree. It's the Me/ID that crawls out from under rocks and bites that I address in such fashion. Yes, the issues of no heirs apparent has been the only reason I diligently tried to keep some kind of KB inclusion within the competitive mainstream of surfing. Kids aren't gonna be looking at potbellied middleaged men beating themselves to death having fun in marginal surf as something to aspire towards.

Kids want heroes....kids need heroes...kids need heroic deeds to aspire towards....

...Kids want to emulate their heroes and those deeds. Hell we were all there at one time ourselves. Look at it from that perspective and perhaps more of you will understand the reasoning behind my involvment all these years.

The kid's who were in Newport last weekeend were insider's...KneeBoarder's kids.....that's our only inroads really. Those guys need images and people doing big things to make their personal choice more meaningfull than imitating dad to make him happy. Sorry guys, it's just a rhetorical tool to make a valid point.

Ok, so there are all these so called nasty, mean temprered underground hellmen doing heroic stuff, in heroic conditons, all in their self absorbed obscurity. That's fine, I've no problem with that. Kinda my mentality in the first place anyway. But when one steps outside of oneself, and actually gets involved in recruiting....that grizzly bear mentality has no place being used as a recruiting ideology. That's a pretty simple understanding between persuasion and the preservationist philosophies which are banging heads in here.

If I were a kid I would not elect to try Kneeriding given that the imagery out there is very unflattering to my immediate peer group. Yes, inspite of all the rancour this will generate, kids will almost always make decisions based upon their immediate peer pressures. Thirty years ago the majority of you had some heroic imagery to identify with that overrode your peers....because they saw what you saw, and that neutralized much of the pressures to "conform". Martin's and Tom's kids don't have squat by comparison within the general media and that makes our collective efforts that much more difficult.

Yes, some guys will return to the Country with better equipment and psycologically/physically be more prepared for the demands it places on the individual. I saw it happen with many of the returnees this year alone. True none were rushing the premiere spots...only idiots do that without first gaining some experience and the confidence to do so effectively, otherwise they ruin a good trip by foolishly trying to prove something to everyone and end up littering the beach with their broken bodies and broken sticks. Happens like clockwork year round. It takes years to aggressivelly excel over there as many know.

Hawaii IS the proving grounds. That is where kid's attention is focused. Why shouldn't we lionize the guys who do well there. Why shouldn't we use that to sway sponger's and fledgling standup groms away from the mainstream. Now some may take this as capitualizing to conformity, but it isn't. We can continue to do our thing independent of the media and the industry unfettered by their control. However we do need to learn how to produce and utilize film, vid, pics,..hell the entire media spectrum to stabalize our intrinsic premise. ...essentially to use the industry to further our own ends...not theirs.

It's good to have you speak up Jeff and be a voice other than that of isolationism and hedonistic bombast for adherance to an archaic theme who's time has already come and gone. I appreciate your clear input.... along with our univited guest.

Yeah what went before was great. I had a hell of a time same as everyone else. But I'll be damned if I'll die in that rut, a lonely product of my own eccentricity. Passing that image on to another generation has failed thus far hasn't it. There's more of us who are for evolution, change, and progress than those for the old isolationist school of signularity. The more input this gets, the sooner we'll find a solution. Let's keep this discussion progressive.....and polite.

[cs]

What a shame. I'm a complete outsider here, aside from a couple of questions posted about fins etc.... so please forgive my arrogance. I don't mean any slight to the knee boarders here. I've followed the entire thread. I didn't want to reply, but I feel like I must. Am I stand out kneelo? No. Am I a standout standup? No. Do I have years of water experience? Yes (aside from the recent 10 yearl layoff). I'm a little bit bummed out about this whole thread.

This guy (808) asks a couple of intelligent questions, and he gets flamed. I thought kneelos were different.

cs

[barry]

Well its good to see everyone getting their feelings out in the open
I like the fresh tone being spoken now.
when the time comes for sharing ones passion (kneeboarding) with others
the way we communicate this passion is very important.
If own is too guarded with their info or self absorbed others generally wont want to listen or give it a try.
For me, it is best to Share the feeling that we get from living it, expressing
our chosen passion with those that are interested or curious about it.
I dont personally see it as us vs them in my opinion that expresses conflict (too much of that in this world already)
I see all of us all as being unique and through CHOOSING to be unique, WE can keep the flavor of our great ocean from becoming stagnant.
After all, most everyone who paddles out (or swims out) ends up developing a LOVE for the ocean regardless of the equipment they choose to paddle out on.
We are all Human beings utilizing the ocean as an outlet to express ourselves and our passion of floating/flying once we leave the confines of 'stable' ground. Go ahead and admit that it feels good to 'step off the planet' and try to flow with the pulsing rhythyms of OUR ocean.
Lets all help each other to free ourselves from the confines that we have either created or had forced upon us by others.
Hoping we can all share the stoke with someone today!

[W.G. Facenda]

The crowds have gotten huge but, they have also brought a new diversity like never before. There is no ONE WAY of surfing anymore. The change is good as always. it is a different world and the next generation is very cool. I am really stoked on this generation. I have young surfer shapers soo stoked on fishes, kneeriding , mat riding , photography and overall the soul of surfing. It's here now.

[frankfqr]

thank you barry, thank you john.

[willli]

just back from westhampton, NY
end of the road for the "State of S" film tour
audience: mostly little groms (with their moms), sparse crowd
with them the ad for surfline (laird & company doing their thing) got the most response
"S" had a promising start, then fell on its face
definitely not about kneeboarding
walked away feeling flat, no emotion
superficial treatment of George (only one mat sequence)
Plot summary: George lights the s turn path, without direct interaction Curren follows, Fanning added to the mix
everyone makes nice comments about George
got the feeling I was at a wake