Why are Aussie tri boards long, and other ramblings LONG

[PaulN]

***This is not intended to be a shaper v. shaper debate or fins back v. fins forward argument***

So I ride kneeboards, a lot- pretty much everyday. During my time riding kneeboards I have owned and ridden a bunch of different designs including fins back quads, two and four fin fish, Bud's tri's and F2k fish, and Bruce's tri fins. These are my observations only- not definitive statements.

So what I like about the fins-back quad is that especially in smaller boards they are super fun in very hollow surf. They ride well in the pocket and are point and go essentially in my experience. You can drop in super late and deep and as soon as you set the rail its like you are shot out of a cannon. Think of those pics of kneeboarders at Wedge- that’s the kind of wave I think of where this type of board works well “classic American kneeboarding” . Personally I cant see someone using a 6’4 or larger fins forward Aussie Tri there when it is big think 18ft faces- but please tell me why I am wrong if you believe it so. What I don’t like is that they are not loose, you can’t tailslide. Cutbacks are all day affairs but they are good looking. You can really put the board on a rail.

Currently I ride an Aussie tri as my daily board. I love how it allows me to surf- not just ride. You can surf vertically, drop in, bottom turn and straight off the lip-repeat on down the line. What some refer to as “contest surfing”. You can get vertical, and put yourself on different places on the wave pretty quickly. But on cutbacks, I feel that the long rail is a hindrance. Sometimes I find that I am fighting the rail throughout the turn. Also, I find on a shorter board I can get into the pocket quicker from the drop. I am sold on a fins forward design for everyday surfing.

So after all of this rambling I guess my question is: How did the board length evolve? Why are the aussie tri boards as long as they are? I often think that more foam is better when you are not wearing fins- is that why they are longer? On a kneeboard longer length seems sort of counter-intuitive to me especially for those that are wearing fins. Why not have a shorter board with fins forward- seems like it would be a good design but not a lot of people ride them. I guess I am rambling but if someone could explain this that would be cool. If people ride other designs too I would like to hear from them also.

Can someone ride both ways? People that are adamant about riding one type of board or another- why would you not ride a fins forward or fins back design. I am just looking for discussion in order to surf better. Thanks.

[ScottMac]

..

[Mike Fernandez]

Paul during my short observations riding my Island tri, I would say it's up to the rider. My Blast is loose, except on 8ft plus, and goes vert out of the pocket into the lip on chest high steep waves. It's 5'8" quad.
I haven't found out how to do that yet on my Island tri, but I haven't ridden it enough here on the east side. I can slide both boards, especially in mushy tubes.
I am bringing the tri to Cali next month to ride it more, and on better waves. It's 6ft. paddles easier.
I am guessing the Aussie boards are longer because they have bigger waves, and don't use fins. I am probably wrong, but it's what I am thinking right now. Although I have seen pics of Simon with fins.
My philosophy is it's the rider more than the board. If it wasn't, we could all surf like Chayno if we had tri's.
Same thing when I am on the job, and some dude see's my camera and says, no wonder you take such good photo's, you have that nice camera. I say, yeah, do you have a computer? You should be able to write better than Hemmingway then huh.

[Jerry]

I would love to comment, as I too spent many a year toiling away on boards with fins perched precariously on the tail. And I too now spend my days in sheer bliss, enjoying the fruits of the labors of our top fins forward kneeboard shapers. But alas, comment I will not less this thread become embroiled in controversy I will leave it to far greater minds than I to wax philosophically the merits of said designs

[PaulN]

I would love to comment, as I too spent many a year toiling away on boards with fins perched precariously on the tail. And I too now spend my days in sheer bliss, enjoying the fruits of the labors of our top fins forward kneeboard shapers. But alas, comment I will not less this thread become embroiled in controversy I will leave it to far greater minds than I to wax philosophically the merits of said designs

Jerry, I am hoping the point of the thread for you to expound on why they work for you. I am not really looking for the merits, as all kneeboard designs have someone that rips on them so they all have their merits. I know you ride a certain point break and I can see why you would love the longer fins forward design. Again why do your boards work for you, where you surf?

Again, I don't want any controversy on this thread. I would like it to be about design.

[DYdamo]

Paul,

You could flip it and ask "Why are american boards so short"...
MY TAKE is that you "evolved" from spoons and fish's and didn't really vary or stray too far from that way of thinking(design,length)

Where as we also started the way you did, we then went to slabs,twins,bonzer's,fours,tri's,long,short,fat ,skinny.
For example with the "slab" Design PC's style was long drawn out turns and I guess he figured the longer length would allow him to draw his turns further out on the face than a spoon would allow.
So it was'nt really that much of a jump for us length-wise.
More recently, through this site, you guy's have been introduced to the longer boards and the "change" is a bit more "in ya face" than it was for us..... Don't take this as an "US V THEM" thing, far from it.

Just the way we were "Weened"

And I'm probably totally wrong.

[Markem]

Interesting comments all around. I have boards from 5'8"-6'2" both quads and tri's. I've always liked my boards loose so I for many years had my fins up much further than any of my kneelo bro's. I really like the not so subtle differences from my quads to my tri's and enjoy the best of each board. I usually leave the water with a bigger smile than I entered it with.
And never take my self or surfing too seriously.
Mainly I'm trying to have as fun in the water as possible and riding different boards seems to help with that. That being said I've seen really good surfing on both tri's and quad's and think the so called fins forward has helped many to transition form the barrel monkey era to enjoying the whole wave.

Just my 1 1/2 cents on the subject.
Gotta save a little for gas these days.

M2

[K-man]

__Depends on what you mean by longer.My boards have averaged 5;10''
for the past 16 yrs.Rode freeline twinzers,fins on back.Good boards,very quick,lots of control,but a bitch to turn.
Now I ride tri's, fins more forward,all 5'10''except for one 6;0''
Each boards shape is designed to work in a variety of size and conditions from mush to overhead hollow.these boards have different tails shapes,a turnaround at 16''[pulled in tail]to a small swallow for projection and ability to turn on a dime.Fuller tail[area pintail to go vertical..etc-etc
I don't wear fins,tried them for awhile...didn't work for me.Can paddle for hrs...No brain,no pain.....

different strokes,for different folks..it's all good...


cheers

[MIK911]

Paul--interesting topic. I'm took much of a kook to offer any constructive comments, but will hopefully learn something from this thread.
Can you compare your current Aussie Tri to the quad Romanosky Fish i got from you? What're the dimensions on the Aussie tri?
Would you say it's a lot more maneuverable than the Fish?

thanks
Mike

[Anthony B]

To me its all about water time.I dont have the luxury of surfing at the drop of a hat so its a matter of adapting.I think if a board feels relatively comfortable over a broad spectrum of conditions than youve done well.Its no use standing on the shore with a board under your arm half thinking this thing will go like a pig in these conditions.Its a bit like fin choice ,you can do your head in trying a hundred diffrent variants and still not be happy.

[PaulN]

Paul--interesting topic. I'm took much of a kook to offer any constructive comments, but will hopefully learn something from this thread.
Can you compare your current Aussie Tri to the quad Romanosky Fish i got from you? What're the dimensions on the Aussie tri?
Would you say it's a lot more maneuverable than the Fish?

thanks
Mike

That Romo was my favorite everyday board for awhile until I got tired of it. It works great in small waves, I loved that I was able to get the fins loose- unlike with Romo's fins back boards. My problem was in bigger hollow surf it wouldn't hold. In bigger waves it tended to slide down the wave face a little bit which made me lose momentum which killed me. So in small waves it was great, in mush it seemed like it had a motor at times.

The Flashpoint is also very good in small surf. Mine is 6'2 x 23.5 x 2.5 I think. I think its much more versitile then the Romo. I have ridden mine in OH+ hollow surf with no problem. Like I wrote about above the takeoff is different with a longer board, its harder to get the board where it needs to be.

I would say the Aussie tri is more maneuverable then the Romo for a few reasons. In smaller waves they are pretty equal, but in larger waves the tri is much more maneuverable. The tri fin has the drive off the bottom that the fish does not. You don't have to baby it like with the fish, where it always seems like you are a second away from sliding out.

The biggest difference is that the Aussie tri is much harder to ride then the Romo, its totally different. The romo you can cruise on the tail, you really dont have to do anything. On the tri you have to get your knees out on the rails and lean forward to get any kind of turn out of the board. Its pretty much like night and day. When you get yours you are going to have trouble with it, but the more you ride it the better it will be.

[Dr. Bronner]

I have never in 35 yrs spun out on a good fish, ( Lis, Pavel or Blast)...Never. I have never had to nurse a bottom turn on one either. If anything they are too stiff. I will say though that I have watched countless spinouts on poorly made copies.

[PaulN]

I have never in 35 yrs spun out on a good fish, ( Lis, Pavel or Blast)...Never. I have never had to nurse a bottom turn on one either. If anything they are too stiff. I will say though that I have watched countless spinouts on poorly made copies.

The twins I rode were great, they hold in big surf. I have seen people ride BIG surf on fish, so I know it can be done- without them nursing bottom turns.
Maybe it was the board (or the rider)

[stemple]

I will weigh in here. I have both aussie boards and american boards. The thing I have noticed with some of aussie tri fins is the same thing that Paul has noticed. When you are in the right position and on it, the boards rock. The boards are not that forgiving of bad body position etc. to the less than skilled riders. I kind of equate it to surfers riding boards meant for pros instead normal humans.

I ride a break during the winter that is typically pretty unforgiving. Poor wave choice, bad drops etc usually are met with 20 to 30 minutes of getting worked on the inside if not the end of your day. However, I found that the progressive american designs ride more consistently and are more forgiving of a riders skill level or lack there of. They may not go vertical at a drop of a hat (for me that is) but I am not looking for that type of performance. I want a basic level of performance that makes consistent bottom turns comes relatively easy off the top, has speed to make sections, and puts a smile on my face, simple really.

I firmly believe that developing a relationship with a shaper and slowly, progressively getting boards that work for you is how to get the most out of your surfing ability. I believe rider skill level is the most crucial factor in the perception of how a board rides. My guess is that Gavin or Simon could rip on a piece of plywood and if they did I am sure people would have them shipped to California, and then two weeks later swear by them.

I have largely started ignoring the comparisons between shaper's designs and tried to focus on aspects of the design that work for me. The combination of width, length, volume, and fin set up. Dialing in these variables seems to be the way to push and progress your own personal surfing. The surfers on this site that buck the trend of the month and know what works for them are inspiring and to me is what kneeboarding is about.

I believe one of the greatest modern tools is computerized shaping machines. Variables on a board can be methodically manipulated for each new version. This tool in the right hands has the potential to make the most of an individuals own abilities by fine tuning a board to you and not you tuning into the board.

That said, I wish I could ride the way some of top aussies ride but for how I focus on just pushing my own personal limits and trying to ride as many of the world's great waves as possible.

[szrbloke]

That was a most interesting post stemple - if I, as a bloke who has bugger all time to surf and then has to take whats on offer (looks like Croyde holiday for a week later this year) ride a board that requires the skills of Simon or Baden to get it to work properly....well I don't have those skills and suppose I never will have.

Maybe I need to step outside my comfort zone and try a board that is radically different from the 5 foot 7 tri I am riding at the moment?? Maybe something like a Blast Stubb Vector quad? or Parkesey's Malibu syle kneeboard???