thanks Smells.
I still haven't ruled out Hank Warner or Freeline. I've been talking a bit to Stoney, trying to hone in on exactly what I need...Thanks for turning me on to him, seems like a good egg.
Get that Warner quad out and let us know how it works for you.
FINS---"toed-in" vs. "parallel"
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Bryan Jackson
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:14 pm
Toed-in fins do not necessarily make a board turn easier. As some have already commented there are actually several factors involved in determining how easy a board does (or does not) turn, and the degree to which your fins are toed-in may actually be far less important than you might think. In fact, toeing fins actually adds to the amount of drag a board suffers, thus slowing it down.
So why, you might well ask, are fins toed-in?
Fins are toed-in for much the same reason that the front wheels on cars are toed-in, namely to maintain direction stability, which translates into ‘drive’ on a surfboard (all those who used the word ‘drive’ in their explanation can go to the head of the class, while those who compared toed-in fins to the ‘snowplow’ used by skiers will be assigned extra homework.) That way, the rider doesn’t have to concentrate on keeping the board going in a perfectly straight line, it just does so on its own.
A simple observation suffices to reveal that toed-in fins cannot have any effect on a board’s turnability as long as fins on both sides of the board are fully engaged in the water: The toed-in fin(s) on one side counteracts the toed-in fin(s) on the other side.
Of course, when the board is put on edge and the outer fin becomes increasingly disengaged, the engaged fin will have a corresponding greater effect, but of course, first you have to be able to turn the board and get it up edge.
So what is that determines how easy it is to turn a board (that is, get it up on edge)? Mainly the amount of rocker along with the board’s plan form or outline (are the rails curvier or set more parallel to one another).
Imagine you are riding a 6’ long plank that is say 2’ wide throughout its length. It has no rocker and the sides are parallel with one another. You drop in on nice 6’ wave and (assuming you don’t pearl) try to turn the darn thing. You lean over as far as you dare on the left rail and what happens? Nothing, the board continues in a straight line.
A board with little rocker wants to act like that straight plank of wood and will resist turning. A toed-in fin will make little or no difference in turning a board with little rocker.
However, when you set a board with lots of rocker up on its rail the board wants to follow that curve and bingo, it turns on a dime!
Although it is true that all the elements of board’s design must work in tandem and it is really impossible to isolate one from the other, it is probably safe to say that the things that determine a board’s turning characteristics are (in descending order): the amount of rocker present, the plan form or outline of rails, the tail (pintails being the most resistant to directional changes, round tails the easiest), followed by the fin(s) design and configuration.
And when discussing fins a whole other subset of factors come into play. For example, a low aspect ratio fin resists turning more than a high aspect ratio fin, and the amount of toe-in is low on the list.
As early Fish tended to have little rocker, more or less parallel rails, two large low aspect ratio fins and of course don’t forget that wide fish tail which acted, in effect, as double pin! Little wonder that many found or now find those boards hard to turn, especially in comparison to modern Fishes that typically have more rocker, curvier outlines and quad fins (quad fins may have the same amount of surface area as a keel fin but they also have a different aspect ratio and a different flow pattern).
Fins can really be thought as having three simple functions: They keep the board traveling in a straight line until the rider wishes to change direction; they give the rider a fulcrum point to work against when changing that direction; and they keep the board from sliding sideways down the face of the wave or through the water.
Finally, it must be asked, just exactly what kind of turn are you talking about? A long drawn out bottom turn, a radical change of direction (e.g., as in ‘going vert’), or a full roundhouse cutback?
And remember, the harder it may be to ‘turn’ the board may also mean that more effort can be put into getting it up on rail. Just look at pictures of guys such as Rex Huffman pulling multiple G bottom turns on old school Fish as places such as Big Rock and Pipeline. Insane!
So why, you might well ask, are fins toed-in?
Fins are toed-in for much the same reason that the front wheels on cars are toed-in, namely to maintain direction stability, which translates into ‘drive’ on a surfboard (all those who used the word ‘drive’ in their explanation can go to the head of the class, while those who compared toed-in fins to the ‘snowplow’ used by skiers will be assigned extra homework.) That way, the rider doesn’t have to concentrate on keeping the board going in a perfectly straight line, it just does so on its own.
A simple observation suffices to reveal that toed-in fins cannot have any effect on a board’s turnability as long as fins on both sides of the board are fully engaged in the water: The toed-in fin(s) on one side counteracts the toed-in fin(s) on the other side.
Of course, when the board is put on edge and the outer fin becomes increasingly disengaged, the engaged fin will have a corresponding greater effect, but of course, first you have to be able to turn the board and get it up edge.
So what is that determines how easy it is to turn a board (that is, get it up on edge)? Mainly the amount of rocker along with the board’s plan form or outline (are the rails curvier or set more parallel to one another).
Imagine you are riding a 6’ long plank that is say 2’ wide throughout its length. It has no rocker and the sides are parallel with one another. You drop in on nice 6’ wave and (assuming you don’t pearl) try to turn the darn thing. You lean over as far as you dare on the left rail and what happens? Nothing, the board continues in a straight line.
A board with little rocker wants to act like that straight plank of wood and will resist turning. A toed-in fin will make little or no difference in turning a board with little rocker.
However, when you set a board with lots of rocker up on its rail the board wants to follow that curve and bingo, it turns on a dime!
Although it is true that all the elements of board’s design must work in tandem and it is really impossible to isolate one from the other, it is probably safe to say that the things that determine a board’s turning characteristics are (in descending order): the amount of rocker present, the plan form or outline of rails, the tail (pintails being the most resistant to directional changes, round tails the easiest), followed by the fin(s) design and configuration.
And when discussing fins a whole other subset of factors come into play. For example, a low aspect ratio fin resists turning more than a high aspect ratio fin, and the amount of toe-in is low on the list.
As early Fish tended to have little rocker, more or less parallel rails, two large low aspect ratio fins and of course don’t forget that wide fish tail which acted, in effect, as double pin! Little wonder that many found or now find those boards hard to turn, especially in comparison to modern Fishes that typically have more rocker, curvier outlines and quad fins (quad fins may have the same amount of surface area as a keel fin but they also have a different aspect ratio and a different flow pattern).
Fins can really be thought as having three simple functions: They keep the board traveling in a straight line until the rider wishes to change direction; they give the rider a fulcrum point to work against when changing that direction; and they keep the board from sliding sideways down the face of the wave or through the water.
Finally, it must be asked, just exactly what kind of turn are you talking about? A long drawn out bottom turn, a radical change of direction (e.g., as in ‘going vert’), or a full roundhouse cutback?
And remember, the harder it may be to ‘turn’ the board may also mean that more effort can be put into getting it up on rail. Just look at pictures of guys such as Rex Huffman pulling multiple G bottom turns on old school Fish as places such as Big Rock and Pipeline. Insane!
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Dr. Bronner
- Local (More than 25 post)
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:17 pm
