Gemini Kneeboards
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Nope... sorry... you're all wrong.
Best Kneelos in the world ride boards shaped by kneelos... and the "#1 rule of Kneeboarding" is Please don't be a Kook.
I've had plenty of stand-up shapers try to make me boards... Seen a bunch more... they're all fatally flawed... unless they are a direct copy of a proper kneeboard.
I can spot a poor shape a mile away... the rocker, the outline, the concave... the rider is always fighting the board... trying to get it to turn, to plane, to gain speed, to square up.... basically... "Kooking out".
And simply "having a good kneeboard" in you're quiver means nothing... you gotta learn to ride it properly... and that takes years of dedication and commitment.
You want a Pickle Nose or a Bat Tail or a Waffle Wing or Banana Rails do yourself a favor and have Jon or Bruce or David or Neil or Eric or Bud shape it for you...
Then at least most of the board won't suck.
Best Kneelos in the world ride boards shaped by kneelos... and the "#1 rule of Kneeboarding" is Please don't be a Kook.
I've had plenty of stand-up shapers try to make me boards... Seen a bunch more... they're all fatally flawed... unless they are a direct copy of a proper kneeboard.
I can spot a poor shape a mile away... the rocker, the outline, the concave... the rider is always fighting the board... trying to get it to turn, to plane, to gain speed, to square up.... basically... "Kooking out".
And simply "having a good kneeboard" in you're quiver means nothing... you gotta learn to ride it properly... and that takes years of dedication and commitment.
You want a Pickle Nose or a Bat Tail or a Waffle Wing or Banana Rails do yourself a favor and have Jon or Bruce or David or Neil or Eric or Bud shape it for you...
Then at least most of the board won't suck.
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toofast3
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:16 pm
- Location: Escondido Ca.
Well, sign me up for the "Kook" bus. I`m ready to board !!!! I see the problem being people not wanting to step out of their comfort zone and really try something different.. Yea, their board may work, but, maybe there is something better. Reguardless who shaped it.
I appauded the guy that is willing to step outside the box. I know I always will continue to do so. I have been KBing a long time and I think I do ok. My boards fit the way I surf and I no problem controlling them or making them do what I want them to do.
If the labels me as a "kook", then i`m happy to be one
I appauded the guy that is willing to step outside the box. I know I always will continue to do so. I have been KBing a long time and I think I do ok. My boards fit the way I surf and I no problem controlling them or making them do what I want them to do.
If the labels me as a "kook", then i`m happy to be one
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W.G. Facenda
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 426
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:58 pm
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W.G. Facenda
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 426
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:58 pm
Cool.Well, sign me up for the "Kook" bus. I`m ready to board !!!!
No. You said:So anyone that EVER had a kneeboard made by a standup shaper was a big Kook at that time We always thought," the guy that always talked big and did a lot of chest pounding is the biggest KOOK!" I just want to keep track of what's a kook and what's cool so I don't deviate too much....
We'll that's groovy... but I disagree... Do whatever YOU want, but you don't speak for any of us, and I'd prefer you not be an embarrassment.The number 1 rule of kneeboarding and that's
TO KEEP AND OPEN MIND AND HAVE NO RULES .
Making Generalizations is very pedestrian...
SERIOUSLY?!.... dude, you are THE KING of Generalizations... re-read every post in this thread... I don't believe you are able to write WITHOUT using generalizations.My statements, however, are pinpoint specific... best Kneelos in the world ride boards shaped by Kneelos. Period.
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kidrock
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:51 pm
- Location: about to open up a Can
Good Job, W.G.---you're spot on with your "talking big and pounding chest" assessment. I know a lot of contributors to this site are tired of this guy pounding his chest and attacking people for their humble opinions. For what it's worth, a lot of people who contribute to this site know of your experience and knowledge of shapes and shapers like Toby and Stevie...2 guys who shape some of the world's finest boards, whether they shape a KB or a standup. And, I think that guys like "Jon or Bruce or David or Neil or Eric or Bud" would be the first to lay down their planers and pay homage to this fact.W.G. Facenda wrote:So anyone that EVER had a kneeboard made by a standup shaper was a big Kook at that timeWe always thought," the guy that always talked big and did a lot of chest pounding is the biggest KOOK!"
I just want to keep track of what's a kook and what's cool so I don't deviate too much....
Everybody is tired of hearing "this guy's a kook, that guy's a kook, you're all kooks!!!" Calling people "kooks" is what got Gene West booted. Why is EQ still on here? He is forever calling people out as kooks. Nobody cares if you're on meth, even if you act like it. Stop beating your chest and "kooking out". Kook.
Despite my past history I am not going to get involved in the reading between the lines of what so and so might have meant when they said kooking out.
I will say there seem to be plenty of guys looking for axes to grind.
Back on thread, generally I would agree with Ed that 9 times out of 10(and unless you have a trust fund paying for your boards, i would go with the odds) a guy who shapes kneelos commercially and rides them will give you the best result.
A wise kneelo who's best friend is a kneelo shaper once told me that he likes to get the third or fourth board that his friend shapes over a period of a few days because the boards get better as his buddy gets his eye in and his hands get a feel for the rails again.
Its not too long a bow to draw to suggest that a stand-up shaper who does one kneeboard every now and again is rarely if ever going to get in the groove to turn out a kneelo that will have the rest of us salivating.
There are a couple of stand-up shapers/kneelos I know of who have in the past shot holes in Ed's theory.
Simon Anderson shaped some crackers for Ken Horton, Mark Garnett, and Peter Stanton back in the 80's.
Ken Horton was one who inspired me to try and draw the lines I aim for and played a strong part in the development of Simon Farrers top to bottom attack.
As an aside I have heard its been nigh impossible to get big simon to do a kneelo for over a decade.
I will say there seem to be plenty of guys looking for axes to grind.
Back on thread, generally I would agree with Ed that 9 times out of 10(and unless you have a trust fund paying for your boards, i would go with the odds) a guy who shapes kneelos commercially and rides them will give you the best result.
A wise kneelo who's best friend is a kneelo shaper once told me that he likes to get the third or fourth board that his friend shapes over a period of a few days because the boards get better as his buddy gets his eye in and his hands get a feel for the rails again.
Its not too long a bow to draw to suggest that a stand-up shaper who does one kneeboard every now and again is rarely if ever going to get in the groove to turn out a kneelo that will have the rest of us salivating.
There are a couple of stand-up shapers/kneelos I know of who have in the past shot holes in Ed's theory.
Simon Anderson shaped some crackers for Ken Horton, Mark Garnett, and Peter Stanton back in the 80's.
Ken Horton was one who inspired me to try and draw the lines I aim for and played a strong part in the development of Simon Farrers top to bottom attack.
As an aside I have heard its been nigh impossible to get big simon to do a kneelo for over a decade.
Jamie
Jamie?!
Come on ,mate... you can't make my point:
Makes me feel like we're going steady.
All the best kneelos in the world have fled this site's forums because it's full of kooks and insufferable morons.
The guys who created and run this site... and all the shapers and top riders in the world... believe in three things:
1)Progressive Surfing and Shapers who love the sport.
2) Contests.
The best way to test our skill, meet our brothers and sisiters, share tall tales and brews, and gauge how we measure up to our peers who we respect and admire.
3) Photos and Video
The only way to document and celebrate our sports evolution.
I've LONG expressed MY opinion that KSUSA should be a pay site... I feel the people who are the biggest a-holes would vanish if they had to pay even $1 a month.
I also feel everyone who joins this site should be obliged to buy at least ONE of Simon's videos. I'll never be able to repay Sparrow and Beck for what they contributed to the sport I love... but there will never be a product they sell that I won't support.
So, Kid Rock, truth is... you're right.
Do I want to hang out with all the guys who DON'T contribute to these forums anymore... ( the top riders who only check and comment on the PHOTO GALLERY)... or do I want to hang with you, Gene, Trout, Angry martin, W.G., and The Pickle-Nose crew?
Hmmmmmm. that's a tough one.
Come on ,mate... you can't make my point:
... and then MAKE MY POINT!!!!!:generally I would agree with Ed that 9 times out of 10
. "Support those who support the sport."As an aside I have heard its been nigh impossible to get big simon to do a kneelo for over a decade
Makes me feel like we're going steady.
Good question.Why is EQ still on here?
All the best kneelos in the world have fled this site's forums because it's full of kooks and insufferable morons.
The guys who created and run this site... and all the shapers and top riders in the world... believe in three things:
1)Progressive Surfing and Shapers who love the sport.
2) Contests.
The best way to test our skill, meet our brothers and sisiters, share tall tales and brews, and gauge how we measure up to our peers who we respect and admire.
3) Photos and Video
The only way to document and celebrate our sports evolution.
I've LONG expressed MY opinion that KSUSA should be a pay site... I feel the people who are the biggest a-holes would vanish if they had to pay even $1 a month.
I also feel everyone who joins this site should be obliged to buy at least ONE of Simon's videos. I'll never be able to repay Sparrow and Beck for what they contributed to the sport I love... but there will never be a product they sell that I won't support.
So, Kid Rock, truth is... you're right.
Do I want to hang out with all the guys who DON'T contribute to these forums anymore... ( the top riders who only check and comment on the PHOTO GALLERY)... or do I want to hang with you, Gene, Trout, Angry martin, W.G., and The Pickle-Nose crew?
Hmmmmmm. that's a tough one.
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SFKneelo
With all of the ruckus, it is time to take it down a notch and keep it positive.
I'm not sure who's on the far right, nor the far left, but, all I can say is... try to bring it to the middle.
I'm not sure if everyone is reading too much into my actions, or not enough.
Again... action... reaction... bring it to the middle and use diplomacy and respect to guide the conversation.
Another anticipated facet of backlash has surfaced. That's my first focus right now.
I'm not sure who's on the far right, nor the far left, but, all I can say is... try to bring it to the middle.
I'm not sure if everyone is reading too much into my actions, or not enough.
Again... action... reaction... bring it to the middle and use diplomacy and respect to guide the conversation.
Another anticipated facet of backlash has surfaced. That's my first focus right now.
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SFKneelo
OK, let me elaborate, as my time may be short at this point... for now.
Yes, a small element has gone out of their way to poison the site. That is something WE ARE ALL INTERESTED IN SOLVING.
Now, let's compare what Kidrock and EQ is saying... both are true, and quite explainable...
ANY sport has a curve of expertise, reasons for doing it, and expectations. Mix those up, and problems happen.
A very, very simple breakdown:
Those that are approaching the sport are curious, and looking for answers to questions like 'why do you do it,' and 'how do I get started.'
Especially in our sport, there's heaps of people that range from recreational to avid, but not necessarily out to change the world. It is a repast, a joy, a reason to let the rest of the world go. While nuances in equipment COULD lead to a change, it's nice to hear about the spectrum, and apply it to the needs.
Some folks are looking for that fine, incremental difference that may bring results an iota closer to what they've been perfecting. Drive, drive, drive for more. What new ideas are out there? What are top-shelf performers doing? How, What, Why, questions, questions, questions. Insatiable.
If you turn to footboarders, the venue by which the iotas of difference come through a very different venue.
In our sport, this venue provides an arguably unique OPPORTUNITY to have top-shelf performers talk to each of these needs. Many of those top-shelf performers WANT to do that.
Which is what I think EQ is saying. What Kidrock is saying is to respect the needs of everyone, as the needs do vary. Disclaimer: I know Kidrock is interested in all of it!
Absolutes do not work, and perhaps with RESPECT to the spectrum of needs out there, our sport will thrive.
FWIW, the only footboarder shaper I've used in the past is Tom Eberly, who came to me through Bill Lerner. I had some great boards shaped by him. There were some classics. However, since then, every board has come from someone who kneeboards in some capacity, or more like in great capacity, themselves.
There are no absolutes, but please understand the spectrum of needs. Also, please understand that a main objective in my actions is to foster the environment that gets top-shelf performers to sound in for the benefit of all.
Edit: 'Top-shelf' is somewhat of a concept... look around. Some positive change is already happening. Jamie is sounding in... Ross on tube-riding... as well as Nov. While the Coach has been sending positive vibes from the photo albums, hopefully he'll pull back in here as well. I'd love to see the return of Hart, as well as the quiet guy with answers, Mr. Parkes. LOTS of OPPORTUNITY. Let's make 'em welcome. We will ALL benefit!
Again, PM me with your particular angsts on this...
Yes, a small element has gone out of their way to poison the site. That is something WE ARE ALL INTERESTED IN SOLVING.
Now, let's compare what Kidrock and EQ is saying... both are true, and quite explainable...
ANY sport has a curve of expertise, reasons for doing it, and expectations. Mix those up, and problems happen.
A very, very simple breakdown:
Those that are approaching the sport are curious, and looking for answers to questions like 'why do you do it,' and 'how do I get started.'
Especially in our sport, there's heaps of people that range from recreational to avid, but not necessarily out to change the world. It is a repast, a joy, a reason to let the rest of the world go. While nuances in equipment COULD lead to a change, it's nice to hear about the spectrum, and apply it to the needs.
Some folks are looking for that fine, incremental difference that may bring results an iota closer to what they've been perfecting. Drive, drive, drive for more. What new ideas are out there? What are top-shelf performers doing? How, What, Why, questions, questions, questions. Insatiable.
If you turn to footboarders, the venue by which the iotas of difference come through a very different venue.
In our sport, this venue provides an arguably unique OPPORTUNITY to have top-shelf performers talk to each of these needs. Many of those top-shelf performers WANT to do that.
Which is what I think EQ is saying. What Kidrock is saying is to respect the needs of everyone, as the needs do vary. Disclaimer: I know Kidrock is interested in all of it!
Absolutes do not work, and perhaps with RESPECT to the spectrum of needs out there, our sport will thrive.
FWIW, the only footboarder shaper I've used in the past is Tom Eberly, who came to me through Bill Lerner. I had some great boards shaped by him. There were some classics. However, since then, every board has come from someone who kneeboards in some capacity, or more like in great capacity, themselves.
There are no absolutes, but please understand the spectrum of needs. Also, please understand that a main objective in my actions is to foster the environment that gets top-shelf performers to sound in for the benefit of all.
Edit: 'Top-shelf' is somewhat of a concept... look around. Some positive change is already happening. Jamie is sounding in... Ross on tube-riding... as well as Nov. While the Coach has been sending positive vibes from the photo albums, hopefully he'll pull back in here as well. I'd love to see the return of Hart, as well as the quiet guy with answers, Mr. Parkes. LOTS of OPPORTUNITY. Let's make 'em welcome. We will ALL benefit!
Again, PM me with your particular angsts on this...
For those of you who still don't get it, here it is:
THIS THREAD IS OFFENSIVE TO OUR SHAPERS!
Do you understand?
NO ONE is saying you can't have some stand-up shape you a board... NO ONE is saying you can't think it's epic... NO ONE is saying ya'll can't have a picnic and celebrate all the wacky-cool kneeboards you created.
Knock yourselves out.
BUT... if you come into this site and ask for opinions about these boards, you will get the same answers ("waste of time... waste of money... won't be the board you want... support those that support the sport...ect") because that's what most of the people who created this site believe.
And if you say inane things like:
... you just prove the fact you have NO IDEA what you are talking about and have never had a real conversation with any of those guys.
THEY WOULD SAY THE OPPOSITE!!!!!
(or they would have had they all not fled this site years ago... remember when guys like Bud and Bruce were regular contributers to the forums?
So sad.)
The fact is, our shapers have spent their entire lives... millions of hours... making sure NO ONE could give you a better board. They are PROUD of that fact!
To say 'anyone with a planer" can make a kneeboard is not only stupid, but it's insulting to the guys we revere... especially when it comes from a bunch of guys who can barely surf.
THIS THREAD IS OFFENSIVE TO OUR SHAPERS!
Do you understand?
NO ONE is saying you can't have some stand-up shape you a board... NO ONE is saying you can't think it's epic... NO ONE is saying ya'll can't have a picnic and celebrate all the wacky-cool kneeboards you created.
Knock yourselves out.
BUT... if you come into this site and ask for opinions about these boards, you will get the same answers ("waste of time... waste of money... won't be the board you want... support those that support the sport...ect") because that's what most of the people who created this site believe.
And if you say inane things like:
For what it's worth, a lot of people who contribute to this site know of your experience and knowledge of shapes and shapers like Toby and Stevie...2 guys who shape some of the world's finest boards, whether they shape a KB or a standup. And, I think that guys like "Jon or Bruce or David or Neil or Eric or Bud" would be the first to lay down their planers and pay homage to this fact.
... you just prove the fact you have NO IDEA what you are talking about and have never had a real conversation with any of those guys.
THEY WOULD SAY THE OPPOSITE!!!!!
(or they would have had they all not fled this site years ago... remember when guys like Bud and Bruce were regular contributers to the forums?
So sad.)
The fact is, our shapers have spent their entire lives... millions of hours... making sure NO ONE could give you a better board. They are PROUD of that fact!
To say 'anyone with a planer" can make a kneeboard is not only stupid, but it's insulting to the guys we revere... especially when it comes from a bunch of guys who can barely surf.
Last edited by eqKneelo on Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
This morning I met a guy on the beach who was riding a Longboard shaped by Toby Pavel. He came in from the surf right before me with a big smile on his face and asked me about kneeboarding. We both had really good long rides in and were really stoked. The waves were good down here this morning and there were plenty of waves for everyone. He was an older guy and I could tell he has been surfing a long time. I was riding a board shaped by a standup shaper who has shaped probably thousands of kneeboards in his time too. I make my decision on what to ride based on conditions and how I feel that day. Anyway, long story short he was asking because one of his friends was injured and couldnt stand up anymore. Yeah , well I pointed him to this site, and he can make his own decision about what will work for him or his friend 
I hope I didnt poison his attitude towards kneeboarding, just thought this would be a good resource for his friend to find a board that works for him.
Aloha,
Erik
I hope I didnt poison his attitude towards kneeboarding, just thought this would be a good resource for his friend to find a board that works for him.Aloha,
Erik
surf with soul