Small boards for big waves

[red]

This thread is intended to promote discussion about appropriate use of board length.

There seems to be an attitude that you ride longer boards as waves get bigger. This may be true if you're a challenged paddler, but I believe it's backwards for kneeboards.

Elsewhere we've seen discussions with input from guys who ride 5'2"-5'8" boards and don't know why people ride "long" boards.

There is little reason for a kneeboarder to ride a longer board when waves are bigger. Remember that standup tow-in boards are small and they go fast enough, so it's not a "length at waterline" issue - it's an "entry into the wave' issue - once you are on the wave a smaller, narrower, thinner board is going to do the speed you need - control is the big issue. A pulled-in tail and fine rail lines are going to say more about control than length.

Having said that, I will admit that my shortest board is 6', but I'm 6'2", so feel that it's in proportion. I've also ridden it in the biggest waves I've surfed in the past year which was sizeable Racetracks at Uluwatu (i don't know how big - big enough for me to turn for one when i was half way back to the boat and wonder how long it was going to take to reach the bottom of the wave). I also rode 5'8"s and 6's in decent size Cape Town waves (Outer Kom, Crayfish Factory, Elands) and don't think I would have benefitted from a longer board - just more glass and foam to control.

In small A-frame and other good shape waves you'll also get away with a short board but it will probably have to be adapted (wider and fuller tail, maybe fuller rails) to capture, rather than shed, juice.

In walled up, sectiony, pushy stuff where you are spending time at the foam line, then you want a board with length to carry you through the turbulence, drive through long bottom turns around sections and connect through flat spots. My new board for this sort of surf 2'-5' is 6'3"

I know there are lots of guys who have 7' kneeboards for bigger waves and Kyle, Farrer and Gavin have really long boards for tow-in. Since I don't surf much over 2' I'm interested in the opinion of guys who routinely deal with triple overhead stuff (Bud, Chief...?)

[Ler]

I voted Yes. My only problem is the paddleing factor, once up and riddening its good, but to paddle in to a big one, on a short one sucks! Here's my edit. How short we talking, I'm talking 5'7" or under as short and if you try big waves with no flippers on a short board, prepare to get worked. I know. Paddle out the biggest day this winter without flippers on a 5'7" and got pounded, sure it was fun, but missed a couple I should have got! Keep in mind though, I usally surf once a month, at the gatherings, unless some wicked swell comes around, which aint much in Huntington Beach.

Ler

[Beeline2.0]

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[Steeno]

Short Board: take of on the shoulder, behind the peak before its breaking

[Jon Manss]

Wow , Ler great to see you finally got spell check.

OK I Know I'm going to take gas on this but in my lifetime of surfing I have yet to see a long boarder out paddle me for a wave. NO BRAG JUST FACT. Having said that my boards have always been no larger than 5' 4" until my recent shape of 5' 8". Length can be an asset but I'm not so sure it is the answer to all big wave situations. I am not a big wave rider, 8 feet is big enough for me. If you can get in on a smaller board you ride the pocket and the impact zone with much more feel and stability. One of the reasons we can age with our sport is the fact we can still ride a length of board we are comfortable with through out our lives. Different strokes for different folks Mine is done with Duck Feet.

[southpeakbrad]

Way to go Red, something I can relate to! I'm 5'9" and 145. I have ridden a 5'5" twin fin fish for years at Blacks. It's 2 3/8" thick, 11" tip to tip with about a 6" deep swallow, and double channels. Wide point is 1" behind center with an true eliptical nose. I've ridden it in double overhead PLUS at Blacks and the board has been fine. I love it. Racing down the line, trimming in the pocket or redirecting to the bottom for for a hard bottom turn I have loved the responsiveness. I feel that as soon as I have a thought to turn, it turns, which keeps me focused on the next critical section. The drop in is the only critical part but like Jon, I know how to paddle (you have to!).

When I lived in SF I rode a 5'6" twin fin fish in all conditions (only had one board), and never felt the length was in issue.

My good friend GSB is about 6'2-3" and 185#?? and he rides shorter boards than this in big waves.

Now, it could be that a quad with a couple of more inches, for waves of consequence, will truly open my eyes to what I've been missing. That would be great and something I look forward to. But as for the actual riding of the wave my boards never feel too short.

Some may say "well ole southpeak, all he rides is beach breaks, what's he know about big waves" which I humbly accept. Actually, although I've never been I feel I would be overmatched in Hawaii or big Tavarua on my little stick but it's been great for home

[Scott]

The most critical part of big wave riding (3X overhead) is catching the wave and making the initial drop down the face. Big waves move faster as they hit the reef, the water seems to rush up the face trying to push you out the lip, and there are often ledges at the top over which one must paddle to begin sliding down. It seems a lot easier to handle all this with a larger board (5' 10" minimum for me).

Negotiating the chop all over the face while dropping in is the second challenge. Even on a relatively glassy day, there is so much water moving around between big waves that the face often has lots of lumps of various size. The now-famous pic of 55 year-old Phil Curtis dropping in on huge Mavericks ( album_showpage.php?pic_id=144 ) is a case in point. First, he had to survive a near free fall with the lip. Then, if you ever saw the video of the ride (I paid a few bucks to view it some time ago on www.pacificwaverider.com ), he next had to survive a near airborne skip from a piece of chop that met him 2/3 of the way further down the face. He landed the skip, was able to finally gather himself, and made a sweeping turn and outraced the wall. Very impressive! Who of us could have ever survived that one? As for my own experience in larger waves, I feel much more comfortable hitting those inevitable lumps with lots of foam beneath my knees.

Now once a kneelo is past those two critical stages, then I believe board length plays a greatly diminished role riding the face, working the tube, etc. (unless you meet with more unexpected, nasty chop!). You could rip it on a 5'4" if you're good enough!

[Steeno]

I am 6"4 and ride 5"10's all the time, my big boards never get ridden, usually turn up somewhere and its on so you just paddle out with the equipment you have, rather than drive home to swap. the wind might change. I like small boards.

[Beeline2.0]

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[Steeno]

look above you big fella when your 6"4, 5"10 is small. Drop 6" inches of your height to get a comparison

[red]

Good feedback. Keep it coming.

So, if paddle-in was not an issue, would less board (5'6" 22" wide, 14" tail) give better control at high speed (say being towed in at 50km/h)? Take good bottom, rail flow and rider ability as given.

Why can lids paddle into big waves on just 3' of foam and make the wave?

[Smokin Rock]

i agree with scott about getting into a big wave is the most critical aspect. on a 8-10' hawaiian wave (20'+ wave face) as you're paddling for a wave you don't really start moving down until it becomes vertical (offshore wind, water moving up the face) the longer your board, the faster you will reach this point. longer board = earlier entry. with kneeriding this does and does'nt apply.
there are guys who routinely ride smaller than 6' boards in huge waves. they can turn and take off nearly in the barrel which negates the need for early entry. for the rest off us mere mortals i think a longer board would help get into bigger waves and feel more stable in the rough sections.
also in big conditions the playing field is way bigger and you need to cover much larger distances to get into position. extra paddling power is very helpful.
tow in designs are not too relative because those boards are made to ride a big wave and not catch the damn thing or avoid a beating.
so what is long? as Steenos said, it's relative to your own size. i plan on getting a 6'3" fish hybrid for next winter and i'm 6'1" 220#. this would be a comfortable size board for 10' hawaiian surf and thats as big as i go these days in my advanced age. my .02 cents

[Duane Bosch]

Hey Red

My big board is a 6'5 which I have used at the Kom & the Factory in Cape Town. I find that when riding bigger waves the extra length helps me to smooth out especially when it's not clean. The extra length helps to ride the bumps and maintain speed when riding away from the power.

I know this may sound ignorant but I find it strange that kneeboarders are still riding such short boards. In Cape Town the shortest board you will find in a shop is 6'0, maybe the odd 5'10 pudgy for really crap small waves.

My shortest board is a 6'0 which I hardly ever ride, prefering to ride my 6'2 for the most part.

Anyway I recently posted some pics of Gigs at HT's in Indo. In all of the pics he's riding a 6'5. The waves were not that big but he was coping just fine with the 6'5.

Whats the deal with all these tiny boards?

[hart]

Aloha all..

Spoke to Simon Farrer this week and he said he was attending next year's North Shore gathering and staying with Bud..all good news.

It will be an amazing experience to witness..experienced Hawaiians, Americans, Australians and others surfing juxtaposed.

We also spoke about doing some boards to suit..and they will all contain length.

Apart from the shortboards which may happen between now and then..Hawaii will be treated with the respect she is due..and all boards will be 6' 6" plus.

hart.

[W.G. Facenda]

last time I ordered a board from Rich Pavel he was telling me that Rex Huffman's Big wave Gun :lol: is 5' 5"!