20 interesting statemente re quad v tri

[Bryan Jackson]

Hart wrote "Kneeboard Thrusters have a sweetspot that other boards don't have..."

With all due respect I totally disagree . Both my Blast and Romo quads definitely have sweet spots which are easily observed on the boards due to the indentations in the deck .

When I am locked in these sweet spots the boards will respond 100% .

On the other hand there are times when for one reason or another (late take-off) I do not make it into the sweet spot . I usually end up too far back on the tail (in order to make the drop). I am still able to ride the board but it will not perform (i.e., cannot turn). In that situation I will either ride out the wave (if possible, sometimes not) or readjust my position when I get the chance (the wave backs off for a moment).

I know that Hart is quite enamored of tri fins but I think that quads are every bit as good as any tri fin wink:.

Also he wrote (either on this or a related thread) that standup surfers can move around on their boards whereas kneelos are much more limited in this respect. Once again, I disagree with this statement, at least in regards to short boards.

Anyone can easily see that a surfer on a thruster almost always places his feet in pretty much the same spot wave after wave (their sweet spot). The main advantage they have is in being able to shift their weight much more quickly and effectively .

Kneeboarders main advantage is in being solidly connected to the board as well as a lower center of gravity and lower profile. Many a time I've either been able to duck under a lip or even take its full impact where most standup surfers would likely be knocked off in the same situation .

[hart]

Dorje,

The way I see it about having a body position that is essentially 'forward' is that it makes you keep your body a little 'upright'..which in turn leads to a little twisting (torso) action in your body as you weave from turn to turn.

However, by being back alittle (say from 1/2 way) you certainly get the benefit of drivey top turns..coz you can stay lower and more forward and use a pivotal action rather than twist.

And Thrusters like you being close to your fins..in particularly the centrefin.

Did you read Red's post about staying forward EVEN as he takes off..and how much speed he gets off the bottom as a result?

And notice that Farrer is always over (and in front of) his knees?..he never backs off..coz he doesn't have to..

And the Wax..if you gotta move around on a modern kneeboard to compensate for rocker deadspots when you run into something flat..that's the wrong rocker to start with.

Shaping rule No 1: Start with a bottom that planes..and build it up from there..because no amount of fins or bumps in your outline will help you if you're not moving forward..quickly.



hart.

[hart]

Hey Bryan,

Your post beat mine by a whisker!!

Thanks for reading my post so objectively..you make good, solid points.

As my surfing developed from 5'2" single fins, thru to 5'6" twinnies..the occasional quad and many (singlefin) tri-fins, it wasn't until I was introduced to my first thrusters that I realised how instrumental the critical sweetspot of your board actually is.. and it seemed even more so with a thruster setup than anything I had surfed before. It is (and was) something that I have always felt thru my own experiences.

And I have never ridden the labels that you mention.

Having said that, I was trying to stress how important it is to thrusters to stay in the one spot and to answer dorje's question about moving around to suit his fins.

By what you mention, you are experiencing similar things yourself.

I was thinking about the 'standup' bit..and your right..the footwells do resemble kneedents..but have you noticed how often a standup surfer will just tweak his front foot for that touch tighter trim position as he ducks under a lip? Or how far forward a standups back foot is if he drop knees?

And how far forward are standups now when they are in the air?..front foot is really stretched..

Even though body movement on standups is generally limited to the manoeuvre performed, I guess the point I was trying to illustrate was that standups have the distinct opportunity to move if ever and when ever they choose..whereas we don't.

Big difference.

My point on that being that the kneeboard thruster fin setup has to be totally tuned to the position of the kneeboarder..whereas a standup surfer has more options than us..its not so critical to them.

You know, I've never seen a standup shaper look to where a surfer's footprints are to place his fins..but I can tell you I look at every kneedent that I can to choose mine.

You know, I've just realised how both my points above relate to exactly the same thing..but are coming from the opposite direction.

Another example of the individuality of kneeboarding, I guess.

Regards

hart.

[Steeno]

hi dorje

thats what i meant about changing your style per each setup

[john -]

you guys at work? bloody hell! talk about quick draw

im off to yard duty

will take some time to digest rapid fire debate

[john -]

end of lunch time in the playground - just enough for a post!

definition problem - pivotal v twist

Hart - Steenos (i think) suggests parkes board and foward placement of fins and position creates pivitol type style but when you say twist rather than pivot im unsure - some clarification would be good as it seems a key statement in regards to understanding of union of style and board

Farrer's position comment a key - foward of knees - highly inspirational example from your website opener - looks like crouching tiger ready to pounce - corny perhaps but hey, im surronded by 4 to 6 year olds!!!

im pretty sure my quad has minimal position variability so i love the idea of foward speed turn speed - i will look at red's comment


oh - i followed one post with another earlier with pronounciation of dorje but you may have been typing by then!

Steenos - excuse my slow mind - so if i have got it - you change style rather than body position with change of fin position - patience please if still fuddled

dorje

[hart]

Dorje,

Look at the way Steen has blown out the back of the lip in his little signature pic..no twist there..all push..what I guess I was saying as 'pivot'.

Pivoting under the lip..at the right time..on a thruster.

The more forward a surfer..the less pivot that they can achieve. A forward surfer generally has to be more upright in stance as a result..and therefore twist there torso (upper body) to turn.

New footage of Parkes in Simon's new vid (I've sneaked a glimpse) shows this very well. If you've seen Craig Ashdown surf..its the same. Baden Smith kinda surfs the same too and they all surf quads.

But if you look closely at say the pics of Steen (elsewhere on the site)..watch how low and drivey he is.

The only times he has ever twisted was in some dodgey 'Gong niteclub..and it wasn't pretty. (So sorry Steen..that was rooted!)

Aloha,

me

[john -]

Thanks Hart

looking at phillip island in November to get up close to all this stuff

just dont see any hot kneelos round these parts these days to investigate

Steenos ive re read your post on fin change - I GET IT NOW

Need two screens when writing as hard to keep focus on what's been said previously

does not help inbetween working -

john - opps i mean dorje - cover blown!!!

[john -]

Thanks Hart

looking at phillip island in November to get up close to all this stuff

just dont see any hot kneelos round these parts these days to investigate

Steenos ive re read your post on fin change - I GET IT NOW

Need two screens when writing as hard to keep focus on what's been said previously

does not help inbetween working -

dorje

[Steeno]

me in a twisted night club.................never

gotcha john

[hart]

[quote]Neither is watching a guy come off the top and have to paddle with his hands to get down the face because he has too much rocker and he's bogging. See latest DVD's for good examples of excellent kneelos doing it.

quote]

Hey mate, I'm interested to know the surfers you mention..which ones caught your eye?

Between "No help Kneeded" and "Kneeboard Island" which surfers do you think are bogging?

I'm genuinely interested to know.

[Steeno]

when bruce says "hey mate" he is serious

[red]

Q: Why do standup surfers move around?
A: Because they can and because it makes a difference.

I move around all the time but am trying to break the habit because it takes a long time (compared to transferring upper body weight) and breaks my connection to the board.

After studying quite a few modern standup vids I've concluded that good (pro) surfers don't move their feet except where it does not count (like the end of a ride) - it's mainly upper-body weight transfers with some leg bending to emphasise the xfer. Good ones to watch are Slater, Curren, Andy Irons, Taj Burrows

[geetee]

The only time I move on my board is if I missed the normal or sweet spot on my board and that is only if I have the time. If I rush getting up on the takeoff I sometimes get way too far forward and obviously have all sorts of problems turning and controlling the board. Sometimes I just get off the back of the wave or wear it.

I have spoken to Parkesy about a new quad order as soon as he gets back from Tahiti. This will be my first quad although I have ridden a friend of mine's. It will all be very new to me and experimenting is always something to look forward to.

Over the last 20 something years I have ridden Craig McDonald's boards (Aware Knees), Bear's (Emerald as well as some shaped and glassed in my garage by Bear) and Parkesy's and they all are very different in handling, speed and turns etc. I suppose we adjust our style to some extent to suit the board as well as adjust boards to suit us. As most of us don't have lots of boards in the quiver to choose from we get used to the board or boards we are riding at the time therefore we must change or evolve to suit to a degree.

My personal opinion is the good surfers, Steenos, Kyle, Baden, Matt etc could rip on a piece of plywood. I have no problems with the fact that I will never be as good as these guys but it is bloody good fun tryin'.

Steenos- through all these posts you have come across as the hardworking caring good guy what is this twisting in a twisted night club??