Forward fins set vs. less forward fins set

[Beeline2.0]

..

[waka]

Steeno
Yeah, they were the' wiggle " days.
i just switched back to tri- fins, after riding boards with the Friar Tuck fin set up!
Surfing with Slats and the boys down at Commie, (they were fun days, hey Steen ) changed my surfing as well.
And that why it is good to keep a open mind to "change"
Mate , you were ripping on those boards, but with not as much control as you do now.
You were doing the biggest airs then!
Just look at your Maldive footage!
But hey, that was 10 years ago - now thats scarey.
Keep on chargeing Steen, and all the best mate!
ps
You still pop a mean air now.
king

[K-man]

howdy folks,

stemple,what ya using for rail fins,and center fin?

Scottie[beam me up sorry couldn't resist] GX on the back and what are the rail fins?

I need more info than just basics-I get curiousier and curiousier as time moseys along

thanks

[john -]

[quote="Beeline"]


your rhetorical opionated commentary is missing

[quote =Beeline]


Beeline
perhaps i did get the wrong end of the stick but i never said nothin about politics being a dirty word...but it is a dirty job!

and words are nothing in themsleves...its how there used...the above seemed mildly pejorative which is why i thought easter eggs and sugar rush...cos i know you've had culture club in your music collection so you have a strong sense of Jungian Anima/Animas theory and thus you will awakin in heaven as an Angelic defender of equality

meanwhile

Headwax...great support for quad fin riders and their choices everywhere - the right quad combo.....viva le quatre!!!

in all discussions re quad v tri this has to be the most informative...all credit to Beeline for a good start...and RED...the twin stabliser idea really opens up an understanding of choices and experience

for the life of me i couldnt understand how Bud and Dp could have (apparently from some sections) got it so seemingly wrong in their support of quads...all be it using different set ups and why i felt comfortable switching fron a tri to a quad without loosing speed, manouvrability or enjoyment

dorje

[ScottMac]

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[K-man]

indeed they are ''good''boards.I use the same rail fin.Found an old pair of #5s which are slightly smaller than the AM[same size as the new 7,000]will try them next with a #3 center...

cheers

[john -]

didnt you know that

[willli]

the water 'reflected' off the leading fins straight edge (inside- high pressure area) contributes/exagerates the low pressure area on the trailing fins curved surface (outside contour) leading to a faster turn ...

but this doesn't take into account the fact that moving through stationary water is different than streaming water at something, despite the illusion of moving water created by wave energy and accounting for water movement when the wave actually breaks. if the forward fin creates anything its turbulence, and the trailer hitting that turbulence may cause it to be "looser'' in the same sense that foam disables the bite of skegs.

I find skegs carry the necessary drag to enable turn initiation, and what really helps turns is well tuned rocker. considering a board with burried rail is on edge, the fwd skeg has an attack angle more like an upside down airplane wing flying "level". the shape of the fwd skeg is going to pull your rail into the wave and tail rocker is assisting your arc. the trailing skeg keeps your tail from skipping out. its size and position has a lot to do with how the board feels coming off the bottom, drive, but cutting back it feels like it gets in the way.

I agree with the "stabilized twin" comments, our power comes from our fwd skegs. the rear skeg is subject to tuning on an individual basis. In summer I often experiment without trailers. helps me know the board better. this summer I'll be experimenting with bud's fins in flashpoint.

I liked dean's surfing as well, very pleasing segment. as far as looking like standups... I tend to notice how much standup barrel pig dog riding looks like a contorted kook, compared to the relaxed poise we strike

[ross]

just want to clear something up about my comments about being influenced by the lines surfboard riders take.i'm talking about the parts of the wave their boards are going and the speed they generate.
not how they look,or how low or upright we surf on our boards(low is the go,i reckon).
i think alot of kneelos surf really flat and would be surprised to see footage of themselves surfing(the same could be said for some standups to i suppose.).
we've still got it all over em in the tubriding department

[willli]

well a lot of standups ride fish flat, for sure
maybe has something to do with the width of the board
and there are a lot of average surfers struggling on pro shapes, but that's a marketing and image problem for them to solve
and its real nice to have such rotational range so you can dance your board into all sorts of contortions, and I did when I did that
but kneeboarding is so different for your head
the ol melon goes wherever the board goes, at the same speed
as opposed to a standing surfer keping his head relatively level and moving the board up and down underneath him
you get some pretty dizzy views when your nose is two inches from the water
and I don't give a rats ass what I look like
the pictures rolling into my eyes say it all
and sometimes even THEY notice
but why take credit for slashing up a thing of beauty
when you're grateful just to be there

[albert]

i think alot of kneelos surf really flat and would be surprised to see footage of themselves surfing(the same could be said for some standups to i suppose.).

I couldnt agree more, the first few times I saw myself on video I was really dissapointed. Now I search for particular things that I am doing that I need to improve on, and work on one or two things at a time.

[hart]

they all say

"That there's no such thing as a free lunch.."

everything comes at a price

..and surfing, in particular shaping, is no different.

we don't get nothin' for nothing.

So I figure, the art is in the absolute minimisation of negative elements that it the key to good shaping/board building..

and not counting on the hope that certain fin geometry will generate some kind of push which otherwise, is not felt in the board.

if we compress water between fins, we may very well feel some kind of 'squirt' as a result..no arguement

but by compressing water in the first place, it has actually cost us before the exercise has even begun

..and the resultant 'squirt' may well be only putting us back to square one!

hart

natural selection = nothing that doesn't need to be there

[red]

I posted earlier about our fins being forward so that we could turn (real turns, not tail wiggles). However a sad by-product of this is the tendency for many kneeboarders to think they need bigger and bigger rail fins, believing the board lack drive and control with smaller side fins. By bigger fins I'm talking in particular about height, like FCS' G2 (although base and area do come into it, too, al la FCS Occys)

They may be right, but - and this is the key point with respect to the above posts - bigger rail fins prevent your board going on edge FORCING a flatter (thus more prone to cavitation and slide) profile on the wave. I'll say it again - big rail fins do what they are supposed to do - they hold the board in the water - even when you want it on rail.

As Hart says, you get nothing freee - it's trade offs. Many guys are now surfing a wider triangle of 3 fins with a slightly bigger back fin (Simon and Albert are now using FCS YU fins) and side-fins that are in proportion (say FCS AM fins) as a trade-off between manoeuverability (I struggle to type that word!) and drive.

Of course there is a while world of 4 fins and shrunken triangles that I know little about, but I believe the same principle holds.

Next time we can start to get into foil, what it does and why flat fins don't do the job (and how crap most FCS fins are in this regard)