"STATE OF S"

[ScottMac]

..

[surfhorn]

I missed the film....got called in to sub at a big band rehearsal. I'd also be interested in comments.

I used to put on surf film premiers a few years ago. I always wanted to do a purely KB film festival. We'll see................maybe when we host the Worlds 2006.

[Scott]

Saw the film last night with Jon Manss and his lovely wife, Nora. and with a somewhat sparse but appreciative crowd in Santa Cruz. I enjoyed watching folks file in past the Stealth spoon I brought along--the film company rep was nice enough to put it right after the ticket table (and comped me with a free ticket for providing the appropos display!). I was able to lay it out on the double hand rail, flat and horizontal. A lot of the younger kids just shuffled past it, some looking at it blankly and confused. The girl surfers passing by, in particular, didn't even look down at it as if it didn't even exist. I don't know how to explain that... But the somewhat grissled guys, even if they were just in their 20's, with rattier hair and less kempt clothes would just stop and kinda drop their jaw. They didn't know if they could touch it, but they'd lean forward to read the small ID tag I put on it: "Greenough flexspoon replica--shaped and surfed by Mark Wessling". Then I'd kinda encourage them to pick it up, push down on the bendy tail section, twang the fin. They loved that. The idea of a 30-layer 4-oz solid center sanded down wafer thin at either end, with all the floatation in the forward foam pontoons really intrigued them. Others wanted to check it out further upon exiting the theatre after the movie.

My take: I really liked "The State Of S". What a unique idea to show the influence of George Greenough on the total sport of surfing! A strong case for his influence was made through the personal testimony of McTavish, Curren and others, particularly in the initial switch from longboarding to shortboarding, and in the development of the S turn. Another theme was that GG didn't kneeboard for the sake of kneeboarding--it just seemed to him the best way to turn hard off the top and bottom, to surf deeper and go faster than anyone else was doing. And it didn't matter to him that others around him weren't surfing on their knees. He was completely driven by his goal, and doing this on his knees seemed the logical choice. His radical flex fin design and its intentional similarities to various fish and mammal fins was also pointed out with some great sealife shots. You could sense the crowd was pretty deep in thought at that particular point. Finally, I thought it insightful that surfing progression was presented as a series of incredibly innovative improvements in styles and/or materials, often followed by a long lull before the next explosion. And that the sport awaits the next Georgre Greenoughs to come forward and take us to some newer, even faster level.

The footage of GG was excellent, but limited, and shown over and over again. Some I hadn't seen before. All of it very, very smooth. While part of the movie showed how current surfing has taken certain moves way beyond what GG and others were doing at their time, it would have been great to show a little of the also very high level of current kneeboarding (they shoulda paid Sparrow for a bit of his footage!).

Any film like this that helps us to remember the greatness of those who have gone before us is of real value. Today's talented shredders really need to be reminded that they are standing on the shoulders of past giants. George Greenough is clearly one of those penultimate geniuses; I felt like every person in that theatre left with a silent nod of appreciation to one of the true fathers of the entire sport.

[hart]

Any film like this that helps us to remember the greatness of those who have gone before us is of real value.

Hey Scott

It wasn't until this post that I decided I must see this film..

I felt like every person in that theatre left with a silent nod of appreciation to one of the true fathers of the entire sport.

Its been said by others on other topics, but simply..we are all surfers fullstop.

Genius has a habit of being noticed, irrespective of discipline

Greenough is and was, a genius

..and as kneeboarders, we have been privileged to notice quite a few



hart

ps

glad you recovered from your meet and greet with the reef..stay charging mate

[RW]

Hey... RW.... stick a spoon in your ass.
Soon as you produce a better movie, I'll listen to your critique. Until then, anything that restates to the masses the direct link between kneeboarding and TODAY'S surfing is valuable not only for the understanding of our sport , but it's future. People need to be reminded where WE (kneelo's) came from... especially here in the USA.
EQ

ahh Eddie...yur just jealous cause I got two of them and rode the hell out of them.

Why you baitin' me anyway?


The future......

Now there's the hot potatoe ain't it.

The kid's may need a history lesson but the surfcat's who've lived through it really don't give a ratt's ass....otherwise there would be more of us....which would of course lead to a more commercial acceptance.

The criticism stands. This flick will not be the landmark turning point for KneeRiding. If the GG focus had transfered over to all you contemporary KneeMen then THAT would have been the Rise of The Phoenix you continually hope for. This thing just regurgitated old stories starring the latest standup poster children being marketed by the industry. Nothing more.

Great footage. Amusing antecdotes. No justification for what transpires within our small microcosm at all. Not even a nod in our direction for the forty years of silent progress since GG's spark of the Shortboard Revolution, Lis's foam cored bullets, or PC's slabs...all of which the surf industry still mimic in their attempts to ride like us. My fault for leaving the room. Damn. I guess when I went to take a leak I musta missed the segment about all the progressive KneeRiding that was so enlightening. KneeBoarding doesn't really need yet another version of how GG singelhandley turned surfing on it's ear. It's old news. Gimme something new is all I expect.

Our documentation as a whole is sorely needed, but that is a formidible task given that most of the major players following GG are still as reclusive and unwilling to share their wealth of archival resources to the general KneeBoarding populace.

For this area it never was about the center stage...it was about doing it.....just so happens all the world was watching back then. The wheels have been in slow motion for 6 years to get something together....not from lack of trying....they're moving now but very very slowly....it's the reclusive nature of this area and it's protective barbed wire philosphy. We've discussed all this on many occasions over the years.

As a note, a friend, a former staff writer for Suffer Mag, spent a year of his time collecting and archieving pics, film, letters, diaries, et. al. that were from PC's vast volume of work and the stuff donated by his friends and peers in the industry after he passed away. The guy in charge is now sitting on the entire stockpile, refusing to go forward with the project because of some pissant personal beef with another party. He is willing to help our collective cause if I put someone in contact with him. as he feels the guy will negotiate with a neutral third party. So there we have yet another obstacle hindering yet another much needed documentary aspect of what we do. On the plus side he is willing to work with Simon if he is interested in adding a larger documentary section to one of his film projects; Simon, if yur following this contact me and I'll set it in motion.

And yet some people out there still blindly believe that the Standup Community at large is gonna get behind KneeBoarding and give it the recognition so many of us have worked hard to achieve to keep it alive. God Bless the ignorant for they shall inherit the Earth. Wrong man...you want things to change, then you gotta start dictating the terms. That's the only way it's ever gonna happen. That is the future of KneeRiding whether you want to accept it or not. ...... I've been doing it for you guys for decades......who's gonna pick up the hammer when I walk away?

So Ed..... the day you and the rest do something more for your KneeRiding than just showing up for a contest as a participant....blah blah....ad nauseum, you'll have some clout within the bigger picture to make things happen. I've given you the blueprints....the future depends upon your action..or inaction, whichever you decide to do, or not do.

The mountain will not move with this release, not even a tremor.....but KneeMen everywhere will dig the footage just the same. Especially those who have never had it all spelled out for them, young and old alike. The thing just didn't set any new levels of understanding for KneeRiding, nor did it acknowledge that it still has a diehard group of lifelong fanatics who surf on nothing else....and never will. Sorry I can't get behind it. The majoority of the old school group I've passed it amongst share similar perspectives. They were bummed it was about surfing...and not KneeBoarding.

We're a different breed down here. Always have been. Doesn't make us enemies.....just means you can't sell a duck by calling it a goose that's all.


The green Hayden will be sea worthy this winter. You still have first dibs at a test run. Start getting in some long distance leg work in the pool...and get a pair of Duck's, yur gonna need the xtra power....bird legs.


see ya next week where you can try out the latest stick

[RW]

glitch......

[RW]

Look for an underground flick by next summer from a company called Swift.

[Man O' War]

I just heard Ed lock and load.

[MWROBERTSON]

Nothing like a good debate in da morning! A fun read!

[DrStrange]

Suffer Mag

Hee-hee was this a deliberate typo? Who needs coffee. This woke me up w/ a laugh.

Footnote, working on making my edgeboard and even if it is a total dog, at this point I would strongly encourage any and everyone to have a shot at making your own. It is tons o' fun and really touches something deep in terms of involvement in surfing. Doesn't have to be a spoon. Any kind of craft you think you'd like to ride.

[Jack Beresford]

Yes, good to see some lively discussion on the site - I guess it's inevitable after weeks of flat surf, red tide and jellyfish (at least here in SoCal).

At risk of walking too close to the third rail: I don't know that many Kneelos are waiting around for the mainstream surf community to suddenly rediscover Kneeboarding and give us due recognition. I suspect these guys would have given up a long time ago. If it ever happens great - but I'm not holding my breath.

What might be cool is if a few individual standup surfers, bodyboarders, etc. see this film and start to "get it" in terms of what we do - especially the younger guys I see in the water every day. We don't need to convince everyone that Kneeboarding is/has been way out ahead. But it might gain just a little more respect for individual Kneeboarders - and that would be a good thing.

I haven't seen the film - so I can't say if it does that but hopefully...

Jack

[Jon Manss]

Jack I have seen the film with several local groms in the audience. My thoughts were exactly what you stated above. You will like this film. It's not the most pro movie. but it holds well as a documentary.

[eqKneelo]

Oh Bobby B.... it never ends.

ahh Eddie...yur just jealous cause I got two of them and rode the hell out of them.

Keep 'em.

Why you baitin' me anyway?

It's my pastime.

So Ed..... the day you and the rest do something more for your KneeRiding than just showing up for a contest as a participant....blah blah....ad nauseum, you'll have some clout within the bigger picture to make things happen. I've given you the blueprints....the future depends upon your action..or inaction, whichever you decide to do, or not do. :twisted

:

"Something More"?? MORE?!
I couldn't be happier right now. The contests, the website, the board design, the videos.... Dude... we are IN our renniassance, you just can't see it.... The halcyon days of Spoonin' at Indicator are long gone...... and this is where you miss the point of the movie and the point of my post.

The footage of GG is incredible... not because of what he was doing.. but because of when he was doing it. It is great for the world to have our lineage spoon fed to them so then they might stop asking the same crap question we've all been asked a thousand times, "Why do you kneeboard", and might just realize for themselves that it is a lot of fun... it's different... and it has pedigree.

You gotta remember, a lot of us on this site never knew who GG was, and once we saw the footage, which was dated even in the 1980's, didn't really pay it much mind. WATER SLAUGHTER shocked us, and showed us what was possible, and the 1st The Sparrow Has Landed... well... that video changed everything. In fact, it is the only reason any of us are on this site.
There would be no sprocklander.com, or kneelo.com, or ksusa.com, or contests in the US, or US access to all of the greatest shapers of today, or any of it , if it were not for Simon. ... it has nothing to do with GG.
And everything to do with GG.
It's all linked... and to have some archival documentary produced by the most respected surfers in history state as much might just get us what we want... not to be accepted.. but to be left alone to explore as we please.

That's why I think STATE OF S is such an important movie?
Because it documents, and forever links, the age in which kneeboarding changed the world.

Surfing today is off into the realms of tow-in, tow-at, and skateboard tricks in crap waves. Will kneeboarding ever change the world again? Who knows. And who cares. GG, and Lis, and PC, and Rex, and Novo, and Simon did plenty. We'll just goof around with our little website, and our gatherings, and our contests, and rest assured that we came from good stock.
Untill, of course, all that fun just happens to change the world again.

The green Hayden will be sea worthy this winter. You still have first dibs at a test run. Start getting in some long distance leg work in the pool...and get a pair of Duck's, yur gonna need the xtra power....bird legs.

You have fun Spoonin', Bobby B...
I'll be on my new 6'4" BLAST AUSSIE TRI..... drawing the lines of the future.
EQ

[Man O' War]

Surfing is still pursuing Velo, and for good reason. Now they're talking "parabolic power systems" -- stringers floated in the rails of very thin blanks to enable flex throughout. They're taking flex more seriously than we are, and newer materials are making advances possible. It's going to be very ironic if their shapers get it before ours.

Greg Loehr:

Who says boards need to float? Really aren't we talking about paddle, not float. Greenough's didn't float. Obviously they need some positive floatation but the boards today have the least float of any ever made. I can give you 20 examples why floatation is overrated or even unnessasary for the top guys. And who here hasn't caught waves with NO floatation (bodysurfing).

Personally, I happen to like some float at my age but there was a time in my life when it was completely unnessasary. In fact many times it was easier to paddle out if they didn't float well. And float doesn't always translate to better paddling. We've built boards that had minimal float that out paddled boards that floated much better. Paddle has to do with flex and some other dynamics that go far beyond float.

Again much has to do with the status quo of todays shapes and the resultant mindset of the past 25 years of little advancement. Just because they look the way they do doesn't mean they couldn't work better if built another way. We obviously are, and have been, working modern shapes around the shortcomings of status quo production methods. It'll be interesting to see how shapes evolve when those shortcomings are eliminated and we are free to explore without board breakage and slam em out production expectations being an issue.

Many of the materials presently being called wrong for surfboards are simply wrong with todays status quo boards. Think about taking away unnessasary thickness (adding flex and reducing weight) and then returning a portion of that stiffness with better flex return through a better responding composite material (like carbon or wood). Overall you win big!

If you eliminate floatation as a necessary feature and replace that notion with paddle excellence then you again open up performance. And going back to Greenough, his boards BARELY floated. He gave up floatation in preference to performance and still managed to catch his fair share.

The rest of the discussion is here (thank you, Headwax, for getting us on to this):

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.c ... 229#203913

[Jerry]

Good stuff, [speaking literally and figuratively] eq.