Kneeboard guns

[red]

Quote from Phil Curtis (the kneeboarder who rides Mavericks)

The Mavericks board in the photo was made by John Mel about 5 years ago. It's 6'10" (or was until this year....a trip through the rocks at Mavs tends to make them shorter....now it's 6'9"). It's a fairly wide pintail thruster with some V on the bottom at both the tail and nose. The nose is fairly drawn in. The board has carbon fiber in the glass, top and bottom. Before this board, I was using a 6'7" split-fish fin arrangement on a board that was made for me by my brother and his friends (all wizards in the industry) down in San Diego; that board was the first one I actually made a drop at Mavs on....after some previous disastrous attempts.

noting the last 2 lines above - seems as though Phil has the cahones but there does not seem to be a lot of pooled knowledge on kind of kneeboard gun (over 7'?) that may transform his Mavs surfs from 'making it' to 'total confidence'.

[Bud]

Lot’s of good observations, questions, and relevant considerations here.


Before this discussion gets too many posts and way off track (as they always seem to do. )
Let me ask that we strive to keep to the subject.

The discussion about big wave gun kneeboards should be taken very seriously.
The boards are designed for serious surfing situations that truely could get you killed.

I’d hate to think that what we post here becomes too disjointed, and hard to understand and steers someone into getting the wrong board.

As part of lifeguard training here in Hawaii they show a video, high lighting some horrific wipeouts, rescues and the resulting trauma the victims suffer.

And guess who is the star of this show?
Some foolish young surfer who follows his bodyboarding buddies out to MACKING Pipeline with is little kneeboard. (not one of my designs)
He picks up a wide BOMB skitters down the face then gets a horrific beating that nearly kills him.
(Well technically he does die but they bring him back to life.)
I saw the footage and it's truly sickening.
I'll try to get a copy for all you SM out there

So folks..................PLEASE stay on track.

For my input I’d like to put into perspective some numbers on the people who own and use kneeboard guns.

What length of boards (guns only here) as well as general dimensions are they using?

How tall are these individuals?

How are they built? (ie like a bird, a brick sh$t houes, etc)

How much do they weigh?

On a scale of 1-10 what fitness level do they feel they are at or were at the time they were using said boards?

Where have they put the boards to use?

Please PM me the info.
I’d like to include it with my next post, along with the relavent numbers in my 25 years worth of records.

[KAVA]

And guess who is the star of this show?
Some foolish young surfer who follows his bodyboarding buddies out to MACKING Pipeline with is little kneeboard. (not one of my designs)
He picks up a wide BOMB skitters down the face then gets a horrific beating that nearly kills him.
(Well technically he does die but they bring him back to life.)
I saw the footage and it's truly sickening.

HEY I HAVE SEEN THAT VIDEO WHEN I SAW IT I WAS LIKE "OH MAN TELL ME ITS NOT THE KNEEBOARDER?" AND IT WAS HEH HEH! I SAW IT ON SOME SPECIAL ON LIFEGUARDING ON THE NORTH SHORE. I ONLY SAW IT ONCE AND HAVE LOOKED FOR IT ON MAX-X AND OTHER SHOWS BUT NOT SEEN IT AGAIN

[Steeno]

Just got a text message from parkesy, grom G-land. 12 foot plus and he is getting shacked of his nuts. bugger

[Cripple Crusader]

steen - he's getting these waves...... storm that hit SA on the w-end has now just piled into Indo.... swell charts are showing 12ft+ swells hitting with 20+second period over the next couple of days!!!!

You can see the guy's on the shoulder on the left


For those wondering.... this is J-Bay like you've never seen it before!!!!

More here.... http://www.wavescape.co.za/top_bar/phot ... Photos.htm

PS..... appologise for going off track.... but look at this wave and think about what board you would need to get on it!!!!

[Steeno]

Yeah I realise...I have been checking the bouy charts for him and sending updates for him....How weird is this...he travelled all the way to G-land...I was meant to go with him (bloody work) and Dave and I live 9 hours apart and his roomate he just happens to be staying with is one of my neighbours.....its a small world

[surfhorn]

Bud is correct in pointing out the seriousness of this subject.

Before one takes to finding the perfect big wave KB, they should look to their physical conditioning. Have you trained year 'round to safely surf larger surf............safety for yourself and the other people in the water.
Are you willing to risk the lives of the rescue personnel who have to enter the water to drag your soggy ass back onto the beach?

Riding big waves is a serious undertaking - use your intelligence and prepare yourself physically and mentally.

[Bud]

Ok,

Back on track there Steeno.

I've got one of his 6'8" s in the garrage and can use those numbers for this discussion.

I'm guessing DP's around 12 stone / 168 lbs in weight at about 5'10" tall.

Could you TM DP and ask for his general specs, body & board, he's using as his gun while there for us.
Also bug him to bring home some pics to share.
There's usually some one there these days taking shots and selling them to the guests.

(I also was trying to go and be there with him )

[ross]

the first time i surfed jaii baii it was the size in the photo above but absolutelty perfect.winter 2000,this particular swell came after the pros had left town and made zig zag magazine,touted as the best Jbay ever!!we scored big
30 guys out supers.old guy with long grey hair getting the BIG ones and just tearing on a big blue pintail.sorry for ranting that shot brought me good memories 8)i remember being amazed between sets that the offshore was whipping sand into my face!

[Bud]

Yes..........but what were you riding?
Please everyone with gun kneeboards, PM me your specs.
I hope to post all the numbers as a refernce for us to view as we discuss the different designs used.

I also scored it like that with Greg Holzman in 1989.

Here's a shot I took of Greg, just before I ran for my wet suit.



5'6" X 22" Blast Fish Hybrid 4 fin (small fins)

[kneelingBROTHA]

steen - he's getting these waves...... storm that hit SA on the w-end has now just piled into Indo.... swell charts are showing 12ft+ swells hitting with 20+second period over the next couple of days!!!!

You can see the guy's on the shoulder on the left


For those wondering.... this is J-Bay like you've never seen it before!!!!

More here.... http://www.wavescape.co.za/top_bar/phot ... Photos.htm

PS..... appologise for going off track.... but look at this wave and think about what board you would need to get on it!!!!

THAT'S FUCKING HORRENDOUS!

Seriously, that's large. Its hard to be in charge when you're up against that. I'm equally anxious as Bud to see what people ride in such conditions; kneeboard lengths vary sooo much in what people ride in different conditions (lil fish big wave, big arm paddle boat lil wave) that I'm really ready to see the specs!

[Bud]

YEA! But we need numbers people.
Just the basics, length width, nose tail.
Any other detail you think relevent..........unless you are paranoid and think this is about stealing YOUR ideas.....

That day we scored had us caught like rats a couple times, like the guys pictured.
Not as rugged and windy luckily.
The best waves were the 6-8'rs that hugged the point and opened up real wide through Supers. YEA!!!

Sitting in there to get one was testy....or should I say...............

teste

[yogisurf]

Bud and All, here's the stats on my 70's gun:

Year 1977 (approx)
Shaper Liss, Steve
Design Pin-Tail Gun w/ Wings
Color Isophloic brown resin
Fins Single - 7.25 depth
Length 6' 6"
Width(Widest point) 20.5
Nose (12" back) 15
Widest Point 29
Tail (12" up) 11.5
Thickness 2.375
Wings Perpendicular to stringer
Wings-from tail 6
Wings width 9
Tail (2) Pin
Rocker Flat
s/n N/A
Weight 10.2

I never rode it big surf. I rode it twice at Blacks in head plus. Needless to say, the Fishes I was riding at the time were a lot more fun then the pintail.

The plan was to take it Petacalco, but I never went back

I'll put pic's in the boards forum.

Bud, if you start a KB musuem, I'd be honored for it to go in.

/Yogi

[Bud]

BUD MCCRAY’S KNEEBOARD GUNS as of Sept. 05

Personal details:
5'11" X 145 lbs.
Thin build.
40 years kneeboard surfing.
28 of those, here on Oahu's North Shore.
I've traveled and surfed extensively in Indo since 1978.
Been to Oz heaps and Africa a couple times for extended stays.

My gun kneeboards are 6'1" - 6'7"
22 1/4 - 22 1/2" widths and 2 3/8" thick.
All have 4 fins.
I use my own fin templates.

3, 6'1"s
1 is a 4" deep X 8 1/2" wide swallow tail fish.
Slight single to double concave with V, bottom.
This thing is my first choice for real good 6-8' surf.
Sometimes I think it has a wee bit too much nose rocker, but it’s been a super fun ride.
I've ridden it here for a few years and at G-Land.
1 is a round pin.
1 is a small swallow tail.
These 2 I use alternately, when I just want to carve around on waves that aren’t really going to have real long or deep barrels.

4, 6'3"s
1 double wing round pin. Great board, but found it a bit sensitive in the rails for all but the cleanest days here.
Left it in Oz with DP.
Hoping to have it if I’m there for a macking Lennox session.
1, small swallow tail.
The replacement for the round pin with softer rails.
Good for 6-10' surf in general.

2 wide swallow tail fish
One of these is slightly fuller in the rails for softening the ride in rough conditions as well as increased paddling ease.
All 3 have very slight single to double concave.
Both boards surf like a dream. Just a pleasure to ride.
Really fast, drivey and loose without being squirrelly.

1, 6'7"
This is a simple round pin. It's not pulled in super tight at the tail.
It’s fairly thick through out, a paddler for catching waves easily..........the kind I’m not sure I really want...............YIKES!

In the works for this winter, are a 6'5" fish, and a new 6'8".
Not sure what tail it’ll get.
Depends on my mood when I get to it.

I increase the rocker for my guns.
This helps to keep the ends from being in the way when you want to do something, ..........like turn.
Guns that turn are good because they let you maneuver into the fun zone, like tubes or out of harms way............. a mean section, paddlers, a body or loose board.

Also I found more rocker lets you go faster. With properly directed bottom curves, you can get the board to plane on just a smaller area of the bottom actually in contact with the water.
The less wetted surface you have touching the faster you can go when planing.

I developed my rockers naturally, by how they feel.
Just keep making slight adjustments.
By looking at them they seem pretty bent.
But hey! They go great.

I glass my gun boards with 1 layer of 6oz S type cloth on the bottom and 2 4 oz S type cloth on deck with a 4 oz butterfly patch over the last 18" where your feet rest while riding.
A board glassed with S type cloth comes out lighter and stronger than when glassed regular E type cloth.
I don’t find I need to glass them overly heavy just to add weight.

The boards have extra weight due to the increase of volume in general and from the 6 oz layer as apposed to the all 4 oz glass job on my everyday boards.
I use medium weight Clark Super Green foam and have the blank glued up with 2 stringers laminated together. This adds to the strength.

For me shape wise, simple is better.
Strong bottom features, like deep or broad concaves and channels, can have adverse effects at the worst times.
I like big wave boards that always feel smooth and stable, able to keep their speed, have solid drive and be responsive enough to easily execute the next move.

I find a good rocker combined with subtle bottom contours and soft forgiving rails in the front 2/3rds of the board are all you need.

I have to be in real “fighting shape” to use the biggest board.
It’s been about 3 years since I’ve had the time to dedicate to surf and train enough for it.
My current 6'7" is old, built in 95.
The bottom starts with slight rolled V in the nose area, flattening a bit then a very slight single to double concave under the riding position ending with a bit of V ahead of the fins through to the tail.

It makes a difficult situation fun. Paddles and catches waves easily. Turns readily and has excellent drive.

Biggest waves I’ve had on it were with David Parkes and Mike McGuire at closed out North wind (semi onshore from the back) Laniakea. An ugly gray day with huge, rough, 10-12' (Hawaiian scale) walls.

I actually had fun! ( in a masochistic kinda way )
DP and Mike paddled all the way out the back. I kinda chickened out and stayed wide of the main peak a bit to see how they’d do.
It was so mean that DP and Mike both got mowed down by clean up sets, while sitting at the farthest outside peak.
This resulted in them having to paddle back out twice before getting a wave!
It’s a very long paddle around.
I rode the mid section into the channel.
It wasn’t any smaller through there, it just had a more makeble section, more often.
After the first wave of a set, there would be some big, smoother walls that grew in size and opened up as they pushed into the rip of the channel.
You could ride one through, then wear the rest of the set in the channel, with less of a beating than you’d get if you caught one out the back and it closed out.
Dave and Mike both got a couple big sets all the way through though. (ANIMALS! )

[Bud]

Here's a couple more contributions to the thread for reference.
Thanks boys!

GRANT, CEDUNA S. AUS.
5'7"
180 lbs.
Here are the real basic details of my last "gun". Shaped in 2000 it was a 6'4" Kneeon, thruster pin tail, it was 22 1/4" wide, I surfed it in sizey stuff here in Oz but in big stuff in Indo in 2002. It was a nice board but I found it a little too floaty (it was close to 3 inches thick) I have since parted ways with it and I am waiting on a new 6'5" Flashpoint pin tail although was considering going to 6'8" but am unsure if I need to go that big.

ROSS DILLON CENTRAL COAST NSW AUS.

30yrs old
experience-25 years of surfing 3 years of travel
height-6ft
weight-90kgs(13.5-14st?) 178 lbs.
Build-heavy
Fitness-
6-7 out of 10, possibly better when i am praparing for a trip.
I can swim 2km(oceanswimming) stronglywithout training and practice yoga(4yrs)

Board lengths-2 x 6'1"x 23x 2 1/2" swallow tails.
1 is flat-concave-flat.
The other is flat-v bottom. Wide point 2" back from centre.
I'll ride these boards in 6-8ft conditions, the concave in hollower waves.

1, 6'6"x23"x2 3/4". flat-v bottom.
Shaped by Dale Ponsford this one is a good size for travelling.
I've ridden it in varying conditions and i dont ride it until its over 8ft.
I'll never off load this one. "magic board ".
Places i've ridden this board include;
Raglan, Kaikoura(NZ)cloudbreak, Frigates, Namoutu(Fiji), Desertpoint, Uluwatu, Nungas(Indo), J-bay, Nahoon, ElandsBaii (SA),
Mullahgmore(EIRE)
Tahiti, Moorea, and other islands (Polynesia),
Red Bluff, Gnarloo, North point, Margaret River bombie (west Aust)

1, 6'8"x23" x2 3/4".
My biggest board.
This one is thick and designed for my local big wave spot.
This wave has a ledgey take off followed by a long fattish wall.
Not a great wave but the only one that holds our biggest swells.
I've been in the water here at 15 feet, but only managed to catch 3, 12 footers as i was a liitle uncomfortable (good scared)