Kneeboard Design and The World's 2007

[john -]

To answer Dorje...if you put the board on rail & push it through the water it will naturally want to turn [the rudder effect]....it also allows the nose of the board to lift without having to push the tail down into the water.....& allows for easy release of water off the tail. These designs give Karl the ability to do that super tight top turn...with power.
Karl keeps telling me his board is perfect...so he can't find any drawbacks

thanks...that really clears up a few thoughts

[PaulN]

We are having a lot of success with the 5' 8" five fin fish....it really does seem like the missing link.....does momentum surfing, turns tight & bites & drives off the bottom....this is what I'm having fun with at the moment.

Can you post pics of this board please, especially the fin setup? Is it like a bonzerfish, or a quad with a trailer, or like one of Greg Griffin's 5 fins with all of the same fins?

The inevitable question is....will the American kneelos want to go more the Aussie way??????....[thinking towards NZ in 2009]
There seems to have been a dominance of both Aussie style & design at the contest.....who will your young guys follow?

Ahhhhhhh.....smell that opened can of worms

As someone who has ridden boards from both ends of the spectrum, fins back quads from a prominent American shaper and fins forward tris from an equally or more prominent Australian shaper, I can say that is an American wants to win a world title on a wave that has any sort of face they would have use an aussie influenced design or be Barry Baker.

On a fins back quad you need so much wave to cut back because the fins don't release. Cutbacks are all day affairs. On the tri you can get the fins loose. Its a totally different ride. The first true Aussie try I jumped on I hated because I could not turn it. Literally, I tried to turn it off the fins and fell off the board. To surf in a contest I imagine one would want to be able to slash and cut- similar to how a good standup shortboarder rips apart a wave. Aussie boards can do that, on a fins back board its much harder or impossible.

Now if the championships were at 15 ft Wedge, or any other wave where you drop in, get barreled, and get out an American quad would be fine.

[crox]

skansand wrote ......"so are OFFBEAT boards handshaped or CAD shaped??..the ones i saw looked like perfect flashpoint copys with a little added volume... "

For the last couple of years all the Offbeat boards were handshaped by Errol Hickman & Bro ....but in the last few months we have started to use a shaping machine & used those boards to input the info.

The reason for this is accuracy & the ability to tweak just one facet at a time....just fantastic for really understanding how the different elements work.
Our aim is that all our riders will have their boards on file...if they break one they know its easy to replace.....and they can develop a board that specifically suits them, knowing that at any time they can back-track & try changing something else.
For years I have wanted the ability to change boards incrementally ....this is now it.....& its brilliant!

PaulN - five fin photos..... album_showpage.php?pic_id=7214

[crox]

PaulN wrote -

"Now if the championships were at 15 ft Wedge, or any other wave where you drop in, get barreled, and get out an American quad would be fine."

It was the limitations of the spoon that curbed it's widespread use....not to say that it wasn't brilliant on the right sort of wave.

.....the holy grail....is to bury that rail

......... in all turns

[PaulN]

PaulN - five fin photos..... album_showpage.php?pic_id=7214

That thing is rad! With the lokbox fins and the four fcs boxes the possibilities are endless. It makes my head hurt. Have you tried it a larger trailer or no trailer? Is that the Lost Round Nose Fish trailer fin in there now?

It was the limitations of the spoon that curbed it's widespread use....not to say that it wasn't brilliant on the right sort of wave.

.....the holy grail....is to bury that rail

......... in all turns

Spot on on both counts. And right now the traditional American quad is having its widespread use curbed because it is too one dimensional for international competition. But people will still ride them regardless, and have fun on them.

[red]

There are more riders here that ride upright rather than leaning forward.

There's more to this than fin placement.
Move the rocker low point forward and you force the rider to lean forward to prevent the board feeling stalled. I find that the rocker low point should be below my lower chest (when I'm leaning forward) and my feet tops are over my side fin tips - this gives you board dimensions for yourself.

This is one of the key design influences that Bruce Hart has promoted - his boards "encourage" riders to take an aggressive head down, bum up attitude*. This posture provides speed on take-off, generates power through turns and allows fins over the lip surfing.

Of course - the intake rocker, bottom profile and forward rails have to be up to the task of dealing with full rail turns, rather than back third of the board turns.

* related thread will be on "developing" lower back and side muscles to deal with this kneeling posture ; )

[Headwax.]

Hya Red

great stuff everyone

skansand wrote:

now what i want to know is ,Whats up with those DRift side fins?..they look like raked out twin fins!!..verry deep with low area...is this the key to their "drifting"?

I think slats' secret is in the flex. Dynamic flex in the rake as opposed to eg fcs composite rubber non-viagra flex. Without that flex fins with that rake might be dead in the water. Fin flex is interesting caus it's so unobvious unless you get your hands on a board.- rather than see it walk past.

[Beeline2.0]

..

[surfhorn]

Thats what we used to do in the old days: head down-butt up, full rail bottom turns. But the equipment was a bit different: 5'0" x 18 1/2" swallow with a big 12" flex fin sanded down for maximum twang. It really moved down the line but cutback was not in the vocabulary.

These days my 6'0" five fin takes care of about everything but, then again, I don't surf like the cats I saw this past week here in SAnta Cruz.

Oh, to be 20 again. Or 30...........or 40.........or 50.

[Headwax.]

gooday

this thread has touched on lots of ideas

Bryn and Crox thanks for the gen on Ward's ride

I'm a bit confused about these two different styles mentioned

isn't it possible that the two styles can be blended?

anyone care to post pics?

[K-man]

.....Well there ya go,and good point wax.After reading this thread I realized that's what about I do.Watched all the vids and checked''every'' photo on every site,and at some point the light went on Some points I'm down low[cutties]and other times I'll be more upright.A blend of both styles.A bit general,and not very analytical,But my surfing sense tells me so.
I figure we are not all equel in body strength,age,and equipment that we ride...so,adjustments will be made.
No pics,there's not that much interest up here.



cheers!

[surfhorn]

Before there were thrusters, there used to be two schools of kneeboarding (three, if you count flex spoons): those who rode single fins - a body forward style- and those who rode twins/fish- an on the tail and upright riding style.

What we're seeing these days is a synthesis of these styles through advancement in board design. Much more heady than the advancements we are seeing today in standup boards.

[DarcyM]

Having just spent an eon and a half going thru photos from the world titles, I don't think a generalization of this is "Aussie style" and this is "American style" can really be made. Most surfers seemed to use a blend, some more one way than other, but a lot of that may be based on the equipment, too. And there are differences in styles that can be attributed to size as well. Then there's the UK and Kiwi style, just to throw another wrench into the works.

Some random observations:
Gigs gets almost completely upside down when he hits the top. It's like he leads with his head, too. Also goes from vertical up to vertical down.

Gavin was more upright in his turns on the lefts than the rights. Gavin's vertical attack is clearly based on deep committed bottom turns, a joy to watch.

Tom Backer is very compact but explodes off the turns in full rail carves that have his body fully extended from the board. He tends to push the tail more like the Aussies do in smaller surf.

Karl and Mark McLeod surf very similar, very low and forward and compact and they seem to push the tail through the top turns going way past vertical on the return. They can do this in even very small surf.

Barry is very upright but seems weightless as he floats thru turns. Allows him to get very high on the turns and rebounds.

Baden is nearly as upright as Barry. His greatest strength is that he can hit any point on the wave and never falls off. I've seen him go more vertical than he did in this contest, but he was projecting as high off the top of the wave as anyone.

Matty G is also very low and compact and forward through all his turns. His style makes it seem like his body is just an extension of the board. His turns are very snappy.

The photos I've posted so far here are usually the peak of action. What's as interesting is to see are the before and after and you really learn more of how the surfer got to that point (like stop motion video). Really quite fascinating and fun to see.

[Jerry]

I'm with you, K-man. I love riding both my tri's and quads. And no doubt the mechanics ( both physically and mentally ) of surfing them to their full potential differs between the two. But in the end, for better or worse, the style in which I ride is my own. I think my Blast 4 fins are the best boards I've ever owned. I think my Flashpoint 3 fins are the best boards I've ever owned. I'll leave it to greater minds than my own to debate the credibility of either. Meanwhile, I'll continue to enjoy them both immensly

[W.G. Facenda]

I have never seen anyone kneeboard a fish very well in up- right style.A twin fin maybe, but not a fish.On the tail, and ass up and drive on the rail, 30 yrs later still the fastest approach more carving,driving,style....not as much of a vertical,tailsliding,contest style.








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