Kneeboarding At 3 G's

What works & what doesn't and in what type of conditions. Got a "secret" only you and your shaper know???? Post it here... we can keep it quiet ;-)

Moderator: Moderator

DrStrange
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 629
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:15 pm
Location: Sebastopol, CA

Post by DrStrange »

what was he riding? In CV I think the problem was the board coupled with the small waves.
Talked to Dale S. (Flexman) (the mat maker guy) this am. He recently talked w/ GG who told him that the board in CV, as pretty much all the rest of his boards was but a moment in time. He seldom rode the same equipment for more than a few days w/out altering it in some minute way at least (once he got a real feel for what it did in the first place). The one in CV was an early edge board w/OUT runners. He told Dale, once he put runners on one, that was it and if he was still into hard boards he'd have runners on them all. They are only about 1/4 inch deep and about 18 inches long approx straddling the wp and parallel to stringer (one on each rail). They help channel the water back in to concaves and around fin but also act as mini forward fins for holding the high line where the speed is, preventing washing down the face sideways or only being able to take a tight arc at the top of the wave. Instead allowing very high, prolonged trim line. Also, he did vary size of boards and that one may have been too small for him but he said for sure it lacked runners and that was big part of handling prob.

GG's surf equipment designs were/are a long arc of change building step by step on previous discoveries, designs, failures, etc. Hard to get a real feel of what he was up to from short vid clip or a few stills. Sure wish I knew!
focus stix
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: la ca

spoon wars

Post by focus stix »

love my spoon [5 7 x 22 ,made @ wilderness in 68 or 69 ] when conditions are perfect . perfect meaning slopey point waves big enough to launch the beast and low crowd factor . takeoffs are the tricky part , you cant just paddle into anything . more like a bodysurf drop with the board out in front under one arm , push it down the face and kinda fall onto it ! once youre up and running nothing ! beats the speed and drive and it will hold any ! turn anywhere on the wave . perhaps tow in is the answer to the puzzle george laid on us in 65 , as much as im annoyed by buzzing pwcs @ surf breaks . the right tool sometimes , sadly not always practical .
focus stix
User avatar
Man O' War
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Miami FL

Post by Man O' War »

I love my spoon [5 7 x 22 ,made @ wilderness in 68 or 69 ]... once youre up and running nothing ! beats the speed and drive and it will hold any ! turn anywhere on the wave .
Stix, good to see this thread back up.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the pros and cons. One thing you didn't mention was the contact through the glass deck which, after riding foam, is like making love without protection for the first time.

Any pics of your Wilderness?
focus stix
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: la ca

Post by focus stix »

hey m o w ,no pix of the beast as i have yet to break down and buy a single frame vid cam . i suppose i could scan a neg ... right tool 4 job etc. getting back on topic , hull seems to be help and hindrance on flex craft . w/o hull we need to add static rocker [to avoid pearl ] this pushing water even when on plane ,scrubbing speed which is essence of spoon xperience . hull pushes massive water until we plane , then essentially becomes a small band of pressure across the board ,providing initial lift . the combo of hull and sink renders spoons essentially unpaddleable , but add float [ with ridgid foam ]and lose flex , lose hull and crash or go slow . reverse vee could sub for hull ,but acts like rocker @ end of a turn when weve already scrubbed off speed ,and want to get on the gas . every factor is a trade-off , no ? have been researching flex foams/laminates to overcome the lack of float bit ,though we then trade out the low c.g. and 'intimacy' you spoke of . made 40 + spoons,rode 15 of them , still got the oldest one ,rode it the last swell,had fun.
focus stix
User avatar
Man O' War
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Miami FL

Post by Man O' War »

40+ makes you a grand master. How about some feedback on my current project with the reduced hull and carbon-reinforced rails (unpainted).
It's hard to tell but it has a good 40" of dead flat and 3" of rocker

Image

Image

Image

Image

The rest is at
http://www.flexspoon.com/forum//viewtop ... 32&forum=6
User avatar
Scott
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:36 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Post by Scott »

Carbon-reinforced?! That baby's not gonna snap in half like the last one!

Looks sweet, MOW...
User avatar
Jon Manss
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:00 pm
Location: Santa Cruz

Post by Jon Manss »

Mark why not more foam? I haven't been reading this post so this may sound redundent.
focus stix
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: la ca

Post by focus stix »

tha nks 4 the vote of confidence ,m.o.w. ,though im not sure anyones yet mastered surfcraft on a design / theory level . surely not myself . we do seem to have quality questions ! bravo 2 you on your flexiflyer ! planshape looks xlnt+ trad . w/o enuff nose flip it might be tough togo vert in small/steep cond. like fla good days often are .ride it and tell me what the lessons are .40 nches of true flat will make 4 afast 1 if rails are good . cant make out rocker / hull /flip from pix ,so no comment . good choice on nice big fin !please post a side view so i can have a peek . id be carefull with the carbon , ive got a very 'trick' foamie quad in epoxy s + carbon deck and it is not as 'live' as xact same inpoly . that carbon is very ridgid stuff . george did lots xperimenting with vacuum bag etc 2 get boards 2 go well .epoxy resins are softer so complement c.f. how does this one measure ,length width nose tail ?looks all 2 scale . more soon,good luck ,good surf 2 you !
focus stix
User avatar
Man O' War
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Miami FL

Post by Man O' War »

Scott--Thanks so much for reminding me about the breakage grrrr. You shouldn't have any such problems with the Vader. It has more foam in the nose area and an inch more kick. Still keep it away from dumping beachbreaks.

Jon--This one does have as much foam in the rails but not in the nose. It didn't seem necessary. It floats OK since it's lighter.

Both of you--Nice job representing SC and our generation at the contest. Nice collaboration on the video too. It's good to see Jack White get some well-deserved recognition, though late in life.

Stix--Thanks for the comments. I agree with you on the carbon. It's like steel. To me also, it'd be defeating the purpose to put it on the deck. I don't think I'd want to go any further back on the rails, either.

Image

Image

Edit: I forgot your dimensions. 5'5" x 23.5". Tail 15.5' at the corners. Nose 21" a foot back.
focus stix
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: la ca

Post by focus stix »

just got one of those "perfect" swells made just for spoon riders , big and consistent enough to cull the herd . rode p.v. indicators alone for about an hour before a lucky and skilled stand-up paddled out on his gun . makes me want to make a new one ! best to all - happy holidays !




'
focus stix
User avatar
Bud
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:13 pm
Location: Sunset Beach Hawaii
Contact:

Post by Bud »

Interesting hull shape seen at Makaha.
Board has knee wells.

http://www.hawaiianwatershots.com/eosga ... /index.htm
User avatar
Man O' War
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Miami FL

Post by Man O' War »

Bud, your timing is special. This is what I was doing a week ago so I would have a board for shorebreak and nasty conditions, where a spoon is not
a wise choice.

Image


It's a garage sale board with the shameful brand name WavHog, about 5" thick with little rocker and almost no roll. I thought I'd renovate it, using
the hydro-slide format, including lap belt. I dug into the deck, then taped it up and took it out as is, brought it back and made some changes.
Needs sanding, quick glass job, paint and belt.

Image


It wouldn't be complete without a big flex fin. I moved it up because the board tracks.

Image

:idea: I'll send it out for you to test at Makaha.
User avatar
Man O' War
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Miami FL

Post by Man O' War »

That's right down Flexspoon's alley. I hope he sees your post.
to increase flotation, assuming you wanted to
That's the key phrase. One of the joys of riding a traditional, non-buoyant spoon is having nothing between your
knees and the water but 1/4" sheet of glass. In fact, the whole board quivers and vibrates in response to different angles
and speed. That's part of the experience. You can even feel it through the rails with your hands. If more flotation (via multi
layers) means killing that, is it worth it?

Another advantage to low flotation is the duckdiving ability. There are no clean-up sets--you're in "Sea Hunt." Is that worth
sacrificing?

There are usually advantages to flotation but not always; where there are, I think you have to ask yourself, at what cost?
User avatar
Man O' War
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Miami FL

Post by Man O' War »

Flexspoon reminded me of another factor: center of gravity. Lowering it makes it easier to lay turns over. Also GG rule #18 on "Spoon Fed"
Maximum speed is achieved by lowest possible center of gravity. All weight in construction should be lowered and centered.
Not to put down your idea, HWax. You're ahead of your time 8)
Last edited by Man O' War on Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply