20 interesting statemente re quad v tri

[hart]

Hart

i thought you hated fins

dorje

In context, I do.

I want to feel the consequence of fin design..but not feel the fin(s).

Feeling fin(s) is a drag. It means it (they) are in the wrong spot..or it (are) the wrong size.

How confusing is that.....?

It is not an issue how many fins you ride with..in context to my statement.

The things that your fins create for you, however......is.

Fins are a means to an end.

Remember the comment about "the whole is as only good as the sum of its parts..?"

Well in my opinion..fins are only just a part. A means to 'that' end.

And I dont want to feel that they are there..I just want to know it..I'm looking for the result..not just the effect.

I don't want to speak specifically for Simon right now, but a thruster is his choice of board..undeniably.

Simon would not contemplate surfing a quad. He knows that he could not generate the drive that his style of surfing so demands if he did so.

He is from Narrabeen..and so is the thruster. They do go hand-in-hand.

Soliloquy.. ..it is always easy to speak..but it depends on the people who listen to provide the credibility.

Kneeboarding is so cool that we can all be the same generic surfer..but ride an extreme variety of surfboard. So far I figure from 1 to 7 fins (on this site right now....) Too bloody cool.

But when the best kneeboard surfer on the planet chooses a path to take..forgive me for ignoring the options. And particularly when I do so with choice.

For there is much work to be done with what we already know.

And I've only mentioned the 'drag' word once.

hart.

[john -]

Hart - what can i say?

im up at 5.10am 5 days a week to get to work in the shitty (city) so i can keep the family on the coast - so what do i do to reve myself this morning - "the sparrow has landed with friends" at 5.30am drinking chai tea (family habit from indian/himalayan travel) and vegimite toast

ive just about got my theories for the next board worked and as one might say (after watching the vid) "whats good for the sparrow is good for the pidgeon!"

in true headwaxesque style the debate is a knowledge developer and thought clearing process

but a question - whats the difference between a tri and thruster?

dorje


ps ....and dont go casting pearls to swine...but on the other hand a seed so sown in poor soil may one day get shat on by a passing ox!!! :wink:

[scoop]

dorge
I believe nothing....a thruster IS a tri

but to throw a spanner (or a couple of extra fins) in the works....ask Bruce about 5 fins.......hey certainly work for me......

Tony

[scoop]

And I've only mentioned the 'drag' word once.

Bruce
so are you maching this year in MARDI GRAS ????? lol


tony

[scoop]

And I've only mentioned the 'drag' word once.

hart.[/quote]

see above text....I am still working this place out

tony

[hart]

but a question - whats the difference between a tri and thruster?

I was riding single fins (as we all were) during the early seventies. By about 1976 Crawford started placing two extra fin boxes out near his rails and surfing his single fins with two half-moon 'drifter' type rail fins.

This created (naturally) a tri-fin. Myself (and many others) rode this style of board for many years after that.

On the Northern Beaches they outlasted the twin fin era..and overlapped Simon Anderson's thruster (more about that in a minute).

Crawford in fact was still riding trifins up until his (untimely) death in 1999. He rode them (against quads and thrusters) in his last ever pro-contest in Easter 1991 and still made the top ten in the Opens.

A young guy called Damien Gaynon won that contest..it was man-on-man format. He surfed the final against another young guy..his name was Simon Farrer..and Damien had to surf against another guy called Novakov in the semis to get there.

Damien had ridden trifins all his life until he expressed a desire to go into pro-contests and to win them. To give him the competitive edge that was necessary..I stopped shaping trifins for him and switched him to thrusters c 1988. Within 3 years his dream was realised.

Now thrusters came around in the early 80's as a direct response to the twin fin that most other surfers were riding at the time.

Enter a man called Simon Anderson and imagine this..a big guy, surfing his home break (predominantly a left) on his backhand. He had (still does) a very POWERFUL surfing style.

Ando would break twinnies out of their line off the bottom..they were too loose for the way he surfed.

Simon Anderson had taken the twin fin concept and positioned a centre fin behind them..to give it hold and drive. Yes, it numbered 3..and is generically a 'tri'..but out of respect to Simon and to the most dynamic surfboard development in the world to occur within the last 20 years..it is called a thruster.

Any time I see a twin fin principle, with a centre fin trailing behind it..I gotta acknowledge where it came from..acknowledge who designed it..and acknowledge the name given to it.

And I guess that's the difference between a thruster and a tri.

hart.

[surfhorn]

You have just about got it right, Hart. I rode tris- which I consider to be a large, center flex fin with two small fins (about 2" tall) on the rails - either of a half moon shape or a narrower base design.

I consider a board a Thruster if all three fins are about the same size.

I was stoked when Thrusters burst upon the scene. I was able to take my tri fin concepts and finally have a tail wide enough to actually be able to surf a wide variety of waves - including mush - something my narrow tri fins couldn't do.

And now here we are in the 21st Century with more board and more fins than I know what to do with. But I do know that I'm having a ball.

The family leaves for a two week vacation but I have to stay and work. But it does free up time everyday to get in the water. Come on southern hemis!!!!

[john -]

and the difference between a standup thruster set and kneeboard thruster set up is.........??? if any

[hart]

I was stoked when Thrusters burst upon the scene.

I was able to take my tri fin concepts and finally have a tail wide enough to actually be able to surf a wide variety of waves - including mush - something my narrow tri fins couldn't do.

Too true Dan,

The fin area out at the rail was SUCH an advantage..twinnies taught us this.

But twinfins (and in my opinion, their off-spring..the quad) lacked a longitudinally positioned fin (read single..or centre placed rear [ thruster] fin) to give them forward projection and drive.

Thrusters to me, were a natural (drivey) progression to the twinfin (manoeuvreable) movement.

Best of both worlds.

And it allowed a whole range of outluines to be explored, that single fins could never dream of.

hart.

PS

Just who are these whacko guys from OZ you mention.. The scoop and me?

Mate, you and headwax are the ones reciting Jackson Browne here....I went straight from the Beatles to the Psychedelic Furs.

And saw Simple Minds at the Hollywood Palladium in between..

And never once, ran on empty...

[hart]

and the difference between a standup thruster set and kneeboard thruster set up is.........??? if any

Hey mate..

we were posting at the same time.

technically there is NO difference..because the centre fin is relative to the position of your 'back foot'..and standups can plant it heaps..so their rear fin is large and on the tail.

kneeboard centre fins are more forward (as are the rail fins) and they reflect our 'more forward' body positioning.

the concepts are the same..only we are different.

hart.

[surfhorn]

The Psychedelic Furs were a great group. I've worked as a pro musician all my life (more of a paid hobby now) so I've been exposed to a really wide range of musical styles. Music is one thing that still excites me ---along with kneeboarding.

In fact, I gave up playing music for ten years due, in part, to not being able to KB very much. While in college, I was practicing and playing music all day and all night, seven days per week..which kept me out of the water.
I finally came to the conclusion that I mentally and physically missed KBing and being out in the natural environment. So I closed my case after a New Years Eve gig and didn't open it for 10 years. I went back to geography/enviro studies and started work in that field......AND back on my KB!!

Now I've been able to strike a balance between family, work, surfing and music. And, with my youngest going off to college this fall, more time for KBing and music.

And experiementing with template outlines and fin set ups!!

[john -]

Hart - that time of night is bath time for my oldest girl - the bath room is opposite the the home office set up - she splashes and i can keep an eye on her and enjoy ksusa without the local "wrathful goddess" comming down hard on me for hiding away!

THE QUAD - why do you think it is then? from the twin to the quad - were the extra fins just for stability or is there an idea of some drive as well - is the lack of a central fin the cause of slide in a quad - thus useful for the parallel approach - ive noticed that the slide has crept into my surfing particulaly when doing a cut back since ive jumped on a quad - your comment about farrer not liking slide due to compromise of drive was of interest - i know its your opinion but it would be of interest

dorje

[DrStrange]

I think slide depends more on fin positions and sizes than on number. Quads I think come from twin keel fish that had so much drive they were hard to turn, i.e. they push back so hard. The 4 smaller fins make it so you can tweak position on the pairs, toe-in, cant, etc and loosen up some as desired. Quads with fin pairs further apart and a tad further back don't slide. Thrusters will slide all over if fins aren't right size and position. (I make this as a statement but it is more of a question)

[john -]

could slide also come from being in the wrong spot - too far foward for instance? controlled slide interests me to - how? or how can one trust it?

[DrStrange]

could slide also come from being in the wrong spot - too far foward for instance? controlled slide interests me to - how?

Can slide by being too far up or too far back. Different slides...