My new KSUSA designed board...not yet but have questions

[skansand]

if you get eps/epoxy it WILL float more than your average polyester/urethane board.........you may see this as an advantage(which it may be)...if you like urethane boards 2.5 thick ..then get your epoxy board 2.25.......their so bouyant your liable to get bounced off!!

[sf_firestarter]

OK, although I'm a stubborn ass I'm willing to listen and accept advice from those that seem to know better.

So no more 5' 10" I'll go 6'0" the width will stay at 23", the tail will be a rounded pin and the thickness will depend on the construction but will be 2 1/2" +/- 1/4".

But now I see this....hmmm maybe used? Its fits the bill. I sure can make a decision!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kneeboard-Blast-Haw ... dZViewItem

[KAVA]

also beeline has a 6'1" flashpoint pin for sale too

[sf_firestarter]

Its been some time but it looks like I'll have some time to get to this project next month. I do however have a few remaining questions regarding nose and tail widths and center point location.

Current board: nose is 15 1/2" at 12", wide point is 1" ahead of center, and the tail is 16" at 12".

I tend to ride very forward on my board, should I move the center point futher forward. What is standard for a more modern fins forward design?

I don't have any specific comments on nose or tail width as I don't seem to see much variation. Should I consider any change from the current ride?

[red]

I tend to ride very forward on my board

I think this can be because of the board, rather than a stylistic decision.
You may find your posture is different on the new board, simply because the bottom curve or rails are different. We seem to adapt intuitively to find the sweetest spot. I just got a new dog I couldn't turn that suddenly "clicked" on one wave and now is as loose and as fast as i want it. Still don't know what I did different on that wave!

I have just one suggestion - put flat across the bottom (rail to rail) under the chest - ahead of the rocker low point not at the rocker low point. This helps the water enter easily and slight vee or concave at the rocker low point provides exit paths for the water.

With better fore-aft water flow you may find that the tail is better supported and you can kneel further back. In any event you'll find it easier to paddle into waves and to connect flat sections (everything else being equal).

If you're going concave in the front, then I suggest a reverse vee board. I have yet to experience a decent all-round machine with concave into vee.

[Andy]

I just skimmed thru all the preceding posts, so hope I didnt miss anything...I noticed a lot said about bouyancy vs the "turn on a dime feeling" as if these are mutually exclusive. Bouyancy is great for paddling, early takeoffs, but not so good if you want to whip that board around in the pocket. I'm about 87kg, my stock smallwave board is 2.75 inches thick but I rolled the deck down so that just inboard of the rail its only about 1.5 inches thick max. The thickness on the stringer helps overall floatability/paddling but the relatively thin rails help you sink the rail to put the board on its edge. While the feeling of any board esp during turns is made up of the interaction of many variables, for me anyway the thinness of the rails is a big factor. any thoughts/comment on this ?

[red]

The flip side of thin rails is that the board becomes unstable, prone to wrong railing and hell when the lip is smacking on your inside rail as you drive around sections.

Thin rails are a surfer thing and they look pretty. You can put something like 60kgs 3" in from the rail through your knee so sinking a rail is never going to be a kneeboard issue. You can easily get close to 2" rails at midpoint (at 1" in from the edge) and still throw the board around. I'm more worried about the amount of water that catches my knee during a rail buried turn than whether I can bury the rail - just get the chest closer to the water and over she goes!

My compromise of carrying thickness to the rail in the center of the board while doming the tail (to keep the tail responsive) does 2 things:
1. It challenges shapers, sometimes beyond their capacity. Expect harsh words.
2. It makes boards more prone to snap midpoint because the dome provides strength.

[Doc Turbo]

Hi All

I weigh in now at 185 lbs and 6 ft 1 in tall. My board design is relatively unique, 5'10" and 21" wide, round nose, convex front, flat in center, slight concave tail, and very wide square tail with twin fins set right at the back of the board. The board has kneewells and is relatively thin.

I bought a Friar Tuck quad, and a Blast Quad, and have given both of them a go but found that the they were almost impossible for me to ride. If I go straight, was okay, but the second I did a hard turn, the fins popped out of the water. When the waves are cranking, I cannot wait a year for the me to get used to a board.

If I put bigger fins in the blast would it stiffen up.

I ride mostly fully standing on my knees. I loaned the board to my Aussie friend, and he found it fine.

First off my guess is that you will ride OB alot. Second size and weight play key elements into the right board.

I think slightly longer boards work best at OB. Because of sometimes rampy big waves combined with the current issues, I believe make a larger board work better. When I ride smaller thinner boards out there I find that late takeoffs and extra paddeling adds up to a smaller wave count and more beatings on the inside. Longer and thinner may work better for all around OB board. I would stay with your existing length of 6'0"

Fin placement, be careful here. I went from a fins back to fins forward design but had a year or so of adjustment time. The aussie fin forward tris rip and turn on a dime but I found they take a bit more finesse to ride. Its not unlike wheelbase in mtn. bikes. Shorter the wheel base the more sensitive it is but you give up some stability as a compromise. Maybe Don or Bob will weigh in here they have been riding OB for longer than I have.

I have a semi-new 6'3" 23"+ Blast F2K that i am just itching to take out at OB for its first fall ride.

[Beeline2.0]

..

[gene west]

Hola Hermanos...I've been reading the postings and I was wondering why you guys are riding such long boards-,6' and longer ? I've never had a board longer than 5'-9". I tried a 6' fish once and couldn"t turn it,too much board! Most of my boards have 5'-7"-5'-8", and work well in every thing . the 5'-9'' I use when it's over 10',like big blacks,horseshoe, todos and p.a..!'m 5'-10" and 165lbs.......feedback?....geno out

[Beeline2.0]

..

[W.G. Facenda]

for competitive surfing a longer board seems to work as an advantage.Geno,there are a ton of guys in the background riding under 6ft boards.They just are not competitors and internet surfers....

[red]

Hey Gene,
As Beeline said, plus:

About 30 years ago everyone rode little surfboards as kneeboards. The fins on the tail was a necessary part of the equation to allow such little boards to be kneeboarded.

Kneeboard design progressed in Australia and most of the world. Boards were made longer and the fins pushed forward to retain looseness (actually Al Merrick picked up on this, too, and put Slater on longer boards than the other pros but moved the fins forward a bit - length for paddle, travel, drive - looseness from fins forward).

With this came a change in kneeboard posture, from the upright "crucifix" position to ass up head down, downhill racer style. This has allowed rockers to progress so that water flows efficiently under the low point, beneath the KBers chest and out the back and outboard rail, rather than creating a bow wave as the weight on the tail posture invariably caused owing to the board constantly sitting in a stall position (one of the reasons old school KBers did best in hollow waves and guys who surf good quality waves can still get away with them).

At 185lb and 6'1" you can't ride a 5'9" board with the fins up at 17" or 18" - there is simply not enough board, so the fins have to be back al la standup gear.

Of course if you leap from a fins back to a fins forward board but try to ride in the same way it's not going to happen because the fins are no longer the pivot point for turns - the rail line now is and the fins provide drive through the turn.
The further you lean off the edge of modern kneeboards, the drivier you'll turn. No longer twisting the spine and transmitting torque to knees and ankles (ouch!), but "steering" with the foreleg and aiming with the torso.

The change to modern gear has meant that kneeboarders can perform in a far greater range of surf than before, do foam climbs, evil over the lip turns and confidently tackle big, bumpy onshore conditions - things I know from experience were virtually impossible on the 5'8"s I rode 20 years ago.
Actually, with flippers and a 6'10" I (and my compatriots) are happy getting into big, bumpy, rippy conditions that most standup surfers in our region leave alone. We ride the outside and the standos have to scatter in the midbreak as we come through at speed.

[Doc Turbo]

Hey Gene,
As Beeline said, plus:

About 30 years ago everyone rode little surfboards as kneeboards. The fins on the tail was a necessary part of the equation to allow such little boards to be kneeboarded.

Kneeboard design progressed in Australia and most of the world. Boards were made longer and the fins pushed forward to retain looseness (actually Al Merrick picked up on this, too, and put Slater on longer boards than the other pros but moved the fins forward a bit - length for paddle, travel, drive - looseness from fins forward).

With this came a change in kneeboard posture, from the upright "crucifix" position to ass up head down, downhill racer style. This has allowed rockers to progress so that water flows efficiently under the low point, beneath the KBers chest and out the back and outboard rail, rather than creating a bow wave as the weight on the tail posture invariably caused owing to the board constantly sitting in a stall position (one of the reasons old school KBers did best in hollow waves and guys who surf good quality waves can still get away with them).

At 185lb and 6'1" you can't ride a 5'9" board with the fins up at 17" or 18" - there is simply not enough board, so the fins have to be back al la standup gear.

Of course if you leap from a fins back to a fins forward board but try to ride in the same way it's not going to happen because the fins are no longer the pivot point for turns - the rail line now is and the fins provide drive through the turn.
The further you lean off the edge of modern kneeboards, the drivier you'll turn. No longer twisting the spine and transmitting torque to knees and ankles (ouch!), but "steering" with the foreleg and aiming with the torso.

The change to modern gear has meant that kneeboarders can perform in a far greater range of surf than before, do foam climbs, evil over the lip turns and confidently tackle big, bumpy onshore conditions - things I know from experience were virtually impossible on the 5'8"s I rode 20 years ago.
Actually, with flippers and a 6'10" I (and my compatriots) are happy getting into big, bumpy, rippy conditions that most standup surfers in our region leave alone. We ride the outside and the standos have to scatter in the midbreak as we come through at speed.

Beeline
Thanks for the explanation, serious well put. I am riding the old style board, and posture. When the waves are cranking, and sucking out, its absolutely the way to go. However, in a bit more heavy situation ala one palm or supersucks, I have to keep my physical conditioning up, to enable me to paddle into the wave against the offshore, and heavy sucking conditions, once down the face, everything is great.

Again, I am still experiementing with my new Blast and Friar Tuck. I fully agree, in the larger balmier waves, it was a blast. In small long point break with low intensity, was extremely fun.

Late take offs were very forgiving. Unfortunately I knocked one of the fins out yesteday, so will be riding the old style again for awhile.

As so of the others pointed out, stay with it, and keep open to new ideas. I think I will.

Thanks mucho for the input.

[gene west]

Hey Red... thanks for such a concise and clear explanation. I will admit that in big and bumpy surf my 5'-9'' is sometimes hard to control and I've often thought I needed a longer board , but since I had trouble turning longer boards, I thought I would just have to make due. I have yet to ride a board with the fin set up that you described, but my friends in the islands swear by them...Thanks hermano......geno