My new KSUSA designed board...not yet but have questions

[frankfqr]

In regards to Stephen Booths inquiries, I'm trying to piece together some of the recent post. Gene post in Pump House dialog that you guy's were riding Gomez quads yet you are having difficulties in adapting to Tuck or Blast quads. If so could you pinpoint the difference in shapes or even your approach or changes in trying to adapt... On another note in board discussions, Steve, you mention that your style is akin to "standing on your knees" which I find remarkable given the roots of your kneeboarding endeavors. There wern't to many standouts from that era or area that rode using that style. Most standouts were low and hands on, at least in those stomping grounds. Did you always ride upright or change? Which brings me to another curiosity. The upright position has been acclaimed as the key ingrediant in the current Aus. and U.S. rocker and fin location developments as well as other inovations in board design. Yet Steve you describe problems I have encountered. If you could manage to describe some details or sensations it would be appreciated, at least by me...thanks...

[frankfqr]

After reading again seems you fall into the same catagory Gene, any simularities in my inquiry? Please clarify..????.....or at least offer a few clues to the puzzle...thanks...

[Doc Turbo]

After reading again seems you fall into the same catagory Gene, any simularities in my inquiry? Please clarify..????.....or at least offer a few clues to the puzzle...thanks...

Hi Frankfqr, well I think my inquiry a bit different than Gene. Maybe some background as I remember it. Gene and I surfed down at the pumphouse near horse shoes years back (mid 70's to early 80s). My close friend Mark May and I had a different track on the boards than most of the others. One design we had, and have now stuck with is this square tail, its about 15 inch wide tail, with glassed in twin fins right against the end of the tail. This came about from having a modified fish, (we called it a toilet tail) and the ends broke off, and we were left with the square tail. It worked for us.

I have been out of the states, and out of the mainstream surf community, but still surfing plenty, and Mark would get someone to make my boards, and get them down to me.

2 years back, I thought I would try something new, go a Friar Tuck, and one Blast. Beautiful boards.

On the square tail, it seems I have incredible holding power on turns, maybe it means it stiff, but I can go straight out into the flats on the take off, (standing up on knees) then just lean, pull a square turn, as hard as I can, no spinning out or anything. Extremely positive.

On the Blast and Parkes quad fin designs, the take off is by far easier, just glides into the wave, and I can be up much earlier, or take off back further, and later. Dropping in or free falling is almost too easy.

Turning however, it feels like the front of the board is sliding, if I sit back a ways. If I sit forward, the fins pop out. My knello aussie friend, says I need to finese my turns a bit, since I have been using all my body and twisting on the square tail.

The quad fin boards worked well for me on a rolling long mushy point break, really nice, and going straight on the hollow waves was excellent. I am just wondering if I can get the best of both worlds on my next board.

[Doc Turbo]

After reading again seems you fall into the same catagory Gene, any simularities in my inquiry? Please clarify..????.....or at least offer a few clues to the puzzle...thanks...

Hi Frankfqr, well I think my inquiry a bit different than Gene. Maybe some background as I remember it. Gene and I surfed down at the pumphouse near horse shoes years back (mid 70's to early 80s). My close friend Mark May and I had a different track on the boards than most of the others. One design we had, and have now stuck with is this square tail, its about 15 inch wide tail, with glassed in twin fins right against the end of the tail. This came about from having a modified fish, (we called it a toilet tail) and the ends broke off, and we were left with the square tail. It worked for us.

I have been out of the states, and out of the mainstream surf community, but still surfing plenty, and Mark would get someone to make my boards, and get them down to me.

2 years back, I thought I would try something new, go a Friar Tuck, and one Blast. Beautiful boards.

On the square tail, it seems I have incredible holding power on turns, maybe it means it stiff, but I can go straight out into the flats on the take off, (standing up on knees) then just lean, pull a square turn, as hard as I can, no spinning out or anything. Extremely positive.

On the Blast and Parkes quad fin designs, the take off is by far easier, just glides into the wave, and I can be up much earlier, or take off back further, and later. Dropping in or free falling is almost too easy.

Turning however, it feels like the front of the board is sliding, if I sit back a ways. If I sit forward, the fins pop out. My knello aussie friend, says I need to finese my turns a bit, since I have been using all my body and twisting on the square tail.

The quad fin boards worked well for me on a rolling long mushy point break, really nice, and going straight on the hollow waves was excellent. I am just wondering if I can get the best of both worlds on my next board.

I just posted a couple photos of the board on this site, so you can see what it kinda looks like

[frankfqr]

Stephen, thanks for the pics and details, I ran out to my garage archives with measure in hand and checked old board stats. Always liked square tails. Love to feel the point of release and control. Fin placements and size of fins will take place of those focal points. Most post on forward thinking approaches will lean toward a curved outline, and fins dominating the point of control. I.E. learning curve for you and I. My preference was singlefin and the measurements on my "magicstik" was exactly 15"wide at the leading edge of the fin. Simularities coincidental but interesting. The pics with knee slots to the rear were striking considering your "upright" approach, but not to much in light of the fin placements. I'll quantify my "forward thinking" statement by saying the direction of all wave riding approaches seems to incorporate a large dose of some form of aerial display. Maybe it's just an offshoot of what to do with excess speed!!!! Love to explore...Toys, don't ya just luv em.................Frank

[gene west]

Hey Frank.....I remember the first time that I met my good friend Steve. I lived right across the street from Hospitals,rent was $125 a month,anyway, he and our bro Mark show up with their "toilet tails".I was in the line-up surfing with legendery surfer and shaper and my dear friend Mike Diffenderfer,now deceased.I was riding a 5'-8" long,20" wide,single fin,rounded pintail, that Diff had just shaped me....I thought no way would those boards that Steve & Mark had would work until I watched them both drop in late ,crank hard bottom turns and drive into the barrel.Since then I've had dozens of boards,by dozens of shapers,in dozens of styles.I know what works for me,what I want my boards to do in the waves I surf.For me quad fin fishes,with subtle wings that flow just behind the fins. I 've been riding toby's boards (CHOICE) and Mike Hynson's quads most recently abd have just ordered a new board from hank Warner...but i like the boards from dean cleary and my best friend mark berlanga on the islands swears by Bud's boards.So once again i'm rethinking board design. I'm really intrigued by the aussie's fin placement. I've always tried to stay progressive with my boards and not all have worked,and this keeps my surfing from becoming stagnant...geno

[frankfqr]

Thanks for keeping the focal point running!!!!!!Gene an Stephen. After gleening thru the post, stagnation has been my biggest downfall. Leap of faith is definatly in order. I've got some drive left in these old bones to give it another push. Basically my biggest drawback has been the lack of intrinsic ability displayed by the caliper of kneeboarding ability I've seen over the years. Shoot my sorry ass for such blastpheem on a public forum but I'm not an extrovert and don't mengle with new techno's in the field. If I'm not impressed with what I see then why should I try to emulate the approach? So much has been brought to my attention by gleening thru these forums and pics that I feel compelled to push forward. I'm not the only one whose said something of this nature. Ability is just that, ability, and with the growing mass on this orb we call earth you will be hard pressed to find individuals that excel in our small corner of kneeboarders. But on a worldwide scale this site has narrowed it down and shown a glimer of hope for our choosen sport. Thanks again......

[gene west]

well Frank, I know I can speak for Steve that we're glad to help and that open dialog, and asking questions only helps all of us. If you want to get wet sometime, I'm in San Diego. We gan hit the gnarliest,ledgey reefs,or casual beachbreaks,whatever you feel most comfortable in.I'm always open to meeting new people and always ready to paddle out....geno

[hart]

<snipped>

But on a worldwide scale this site has narrowed it down and shown a glimer of hope for our choosen sport. Thanks again......

how true bloody blue is that statement

Franklin..your thoughts are echoed way Down Under as well, mate



hart

[sf_firestarter]

how far forward should my fins be from the tail?
anyone have any recommended measurements or have a board they can measure and supply some dimentions?

this is the last variable to be resolved on the build. Fins on current KB are at 3" and 9 1/4" (to back of fin boxes" from the tail. I want to move them up on the new board but don't know how far to go.

Summary of the board:
6'
23"
2 1/2"
flat to V
rounded pin
thruster
futures boxes

tail-center fin=?
tail-side fins=?

thanks

[red]

tail-center fin=?
tail-side fins=?

9"
side fins 18" from tail

Back 1/2" for drive

side fins 1-1.5" in from rail
Camber 108 degrees
Toe in to cut rail 5" from nose

Drivey but maneuverable (depending on your rocker, and outline, of course)

[Beeline2.0]

..

[red]

2 1/2"

I seem to remember that you're average size
2 3/4" on 6' might give you better paddle. Roll the deck if you want the rails thinner (but my view is the bigger the better on a kneeboard, for a whole range of reasons - coping with mediocre surf being one)

[sf_firestarter]

Wow, that is considerably further forward!

Just to check, Red and Beeline, are your measurements to the center of the fins or the back of the boxes as I did? (not sure why I measeured that way, really makes no sense) Anyway, I thought it prudent to confirm so I'm comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges.

Thanks for taking the time to pull out the ruler.

[Beeline2.0]

..