Lis style fish kneeboard
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K-man
- Legend (Contribution King!)
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Good living
dorje,
The answer of course is ''much larger boards''make ya look proportionally smaller.The answers are out there
K
The answer of course is ''much larger boards''make ya look proportionally smaller.The answers are out there
K
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Marky V
- Local (More than 25 post)
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- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:20 am
- Location: South Coast UK
Bud and Rod,
Many thanks for you help, I have made my board and posted some pics (I hope!), don't think that I put enough pigment in the resin tint on the bottom, the rails are a bit streaky. However, rode the board in a couple of foot of onshore slop, too small to tell much, but it paddles into waves easily and I can turn it! It really is so nice to ride your own boards. The deck pad is a camping mat, loads of grip when kneeling but really slippery when paddling
(smoothskin on chest of my suit I think). Too soft to wax though, have tried extra cold and no joy. I used Bud's rocker and outline measurements, and the Lis thickness(foil) and rails as best as I could. Have kept the tail thicker and rails in tail boxy, to reflect the type of waves that I usually find myself in. Although an autumn trip to France may allow me to surf it in a bit more juice! 
Thanks again
Marky V
Many thanks for you help, I have made my board and posted some pics (I hope!), don't think that I put enough pigment in the resin tint on the bottom, the rails are a bit streaky. However, rode the board in a couple of foot of onshore slop, too small to tell much, but it paddles into waves easily and I can turn it! It really is so nice to ride your own boards. The deck pad is a camping mat, loads of grip when kneeling but really slippery when paddling
(smoothskin on chest of my suit I think). Too soft to wax though, have tried extra cold and no joy. I used Bud's rocker and outline measurements, and the Lis thickness(foil) and rails as best as I could. Have kept the tail thicker and rails in tail boxy, to reflect the type of waves that I usually find myself in. Although an autumn trip to France may allow me to surf it in a bit more juice! Thanks again
Marky V
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Marky V
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- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:20 am
- Location: South Coast UK
Hi Rob
Thanks, I am really pleased with my new fishy! Have only ridden her a couple of times, in small waves and the board feels good, having a few problems getting used to the low rocker on takeoff but it trims nicely and has plenty of speed. Really have a lot to learn about turning this type of board though. My other board is a fins forward thruster, which I have been riding in preference to the fish, not wanting to spoil a good session with my lack of ability on the new board. Next swell I will ride the fish come what may!!!
This is my 8th board, and 2nd kneeboard and definately my best. I notice in another of your posts you talk of people being fazed by glassing, I learned at Wave Graffitti in Swansea Wales in the eighties and have since been involved in yacht composites. I still get a sweat on when I add the catalyst though, you only get one chance!! But how satisfying is it when you see the hotcoated board in all its glory!
Cheers
Mark
Thanks, I am really pleased with my new fishy! Have only ridden her a couple of times, in small waves and the board feels good, having a few problems getting used to the low rocker on takeoff but it trims nicely and has plenty of speed. Really have a lot to learn about turning this type of board though. My other board is a fins forward thruster, which I have been riding in preference to the fish, not wanting to spoil a good session with my lack of ability on the new board. Next swell I will ride the fish come what may!!!
This is my 8th board, and 2nd kneeboard and definately my best. I notice in another of your posts you talk of people being fazed by glassing, I learned at Wave Graffitti in Swansea Wales in the eighties and have since been involved in yacht composites. I still get a sweat on when I add the catalyst though, you only get one chance!! But how satisfying is it when you see the hotcoated board in all its glory!
Cheers
Mark
Good show, indeed!Marky V wrote:Hi Rob
Thanks, I am really pleased with my new fishy! Have only ridden her a couple of times, in small waves and the board feels good, having a few problems getting used to the low rocker on takeoff but it trims nicely and has plenty of speed. Really have a lot to learn about turning this type of board though. My other board is a fins forward thruster, which I have been riding in preference to the fish, not wanting to spoil a good session with my lack of ability on the new board. Next swell I will ride the fish come what may!!!
This is my 8th board, and 2nd kneeboard and definately my best. I notice in another of your posts you talk of people being fazed by glassing, I learned at Wave Graffitti in Swansea Wales in the eighties and have since been involved in yacht composites. I still get a sweat on when I add the catalyst though, you only get one chance!! But how satisfying is it when you see the hotcoated board in all its glory!
Cheers
Mark
I'm in the long process of shaping/glassing a retro Lis Fish using an EPS sandwich core with glassed in "stringer", RR epoxy resin, and glassed ply keel fins. As an old resin-head, I've never worked with epoxy before so it should be interesting at least! I've heard nothing but good things about the RR epoxy, but we'll see ....
How much nose and tail rocker didja shape in? Fish typically work best (read that: speed!) when left fairly flat. The 70's template calls for about 3.5" nose rocker (about 9 cms) and 0" tail rocker.
Cheers,
Rob.
\Beeline wrote:Here, HereParkerDavidson wrote:(Beeline, you`ve misrepresented Swaylocks. Here`s a brief sample count of kneeboard-related references from that forum):
"kneeboard" - 718, "kneeboarding" - 117, "kneeboarder" - 112,
"Kneelo" - 60, "kneeboarders" - 63, "Steve Lis" - 297, "Lis Fish" - 648,
etc., etc.
Cheers
Swaylocks is specifically about Shaping and making Surfcraft,
therefore its scope is quite broad.
I dont think you'll find a misrepresentation in this....As to Evangelization of 'Open Mindedness'There are bodyboarding, bodysurfing and matting forums.
If you really want that info...there are places to go.
as it relates to a Specialized Bulletin Board,
appropriateness , interest and mood are to be factored in.
Were' not all George Greenough Clones--nor should we be!
Being both an avid kneeboarder (participated in the Pleasure Pt contest last year) and an active member of the Swaylock's crowd (attended the Swaylock get together last year at Plaskett) I can tell you that many of the Swaylock's folks are kneeboarders either past or present and kneeboarding was a common topic at the campout. We had a Paul Gross (?) build GG spoon on hand which looked amazing. Paul Jensen has built a hollow WOOD fish (aka kneeboard) that everyone's dying to try out at Sanddollar this year. I rode his hollow wood longboard last year. Amazing!
The cool thing about most of these guys is there open minds. Most ride a variety of surfcraft from matts to kayaks. There was a kayak in the lineup at Sanddollar and the rest of the guys couldn't have cared less. Very Cool vibe!!!!!
Their primary focus is on surfboards but any surfcraft is readily accepted and discussed.
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Bryan Jackson
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
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Rob, I recently started using epoxy (System 3 SB 112) and I can honestly tell you to relax.
So much easier to deal with than polyester. Longer pot life and working time. Almost no fumes. Negligible VOCs, much easier on the lungs and AQ (but still wear a mask with a vapor cartridge).
However, be as precise and accurate as possible when mixing up hardener and resin. Unlike polyester, putting more hardener (catalyst) will not speed up reaction time and will actually make for a weaker finished product. On the other hand, not enough hardener will make for a consderably longer cure time.
Epoxy is also stonger and more resilient than polyester.
Only real drawback to epoxy is price, but since you need much less of the stuff to begin with (longer working time means less waste) and it goes farther, it is less of a difference than it might seem to be at first glance.
However, epoxy is a skin sensitizer and in some individuals can cause severe allergic reactions after repeated exposures (e.g., skin rashes
) so make sure to limit skin contact as much possible when handling the raw stuff (i.e., wear gloves).
So much easier to deal with than polyester. Longer pot life and working time. Almost no fumes. Negligible VOCs, much easier on the lungs and AQ (but still wear a mask with a vapor cartridge).
However, be as precise and accurate as possible when mixing up hardener and resin. Unlike polyester, putting more hardener (catalyst) will not speed up reaction time and will actually make for a weaker finished product. On the other hand, not enough hardener will make for a consderably longer cure time.
Epoxy is also stonger and more resilient than polyester.
Only real drawback to epoxy is price, but since you need much less of the stuff to begin with (longer working time means less waste) and it goes farther, it is less of a difference than it might seem to be at first glance.
However, epoxy is a skin sensitizer and in some individuals can cause severe allergic reactions after repeated exposures (e.g., skin rashes
) so make sure to limit skin contact as much possible when handling the raw stuff (i.e., wear gloves).Thanx for yer good comments, Bryan ... I work with epoxy (and CYA) on an almost daily basis (I'm a luthier) and I've even used it to glass patch some non-surfboard watercraft, so I'm familiar with the properties and hazards. Just never wetted out a surfboard - your comments about that usage echo what I've heard from everyone that's used epoxy. Stoked to be shaping the Fish, will do a complete words 'n' pix writeup as the project slowly progresses.Bryan Jackson wrote:Rob, I recently started using epoxy (System 3 SB 112) and I can honestly tell you to relax.
IMO ...SCGARY wrote:... Most ride a variety of surfcraft from matts to kayaks. There was a kayak in the lineup at Sanddollar and the rest of the guys couldn't have cared less. Very Cool vibe!!!!!
You are a surfer if you surf waves, and use yer hands 'n' feet for propulsion and guidance.
But I gotta draw the line at using paddles.
I've surfed beach and point breaks with a surf skier - there was a mix of long and short boards, a few boogers, and two of us kneelos. The surf ski could catch waves way outside, before they even formed up. There were no bad vibes, and there were waves for all ... but surf skis and kayaks don't belong in the same category as riding yer belly, air matt, bodyboard, paipo, kneeboard, shortboard, funboard, longboard, and paddleboard.
YMMV.
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Marky V
- Local (More than 25 post)
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- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:20 am
- Location: South Coast UK
Rob
I used the measurements that Bud gave me on this thread for both the outline and the rocker, I made full templates from the Lis drawings, but Bud's lines just faired in so well, I went with them. Even though Bud's lines have more rocker, it is still a flat board by 'modern' standards, fast too!
I was going to make my blank from eps and glass with epoxy too, but the added time for making a hot wire and the blank, weighed against the relatively low cost of the clark blank tipped the scales. I use epoxy nearly every day (boatbuilding), and have recently built a cedar strip canadian canoe, sheathed in glass/epoxy, and would agree about the greater flexibility of using epoxies as regard to cure times. You can usually mix hardeners to engineer you cure time to suit! When laminating a board, just be careful not to 'work' the resin with the squeegee in the same way as polyester, as it will foam and you cant get rid of the milky streaks (micro bubbles).
Are you going to seal the blank with cabosil mix (tacky) before laminating? are you going to paint the board or leave clear?
good luck
Mark
I used the measurements that Bud gave me on this thread for both the outline and the rocker, I made full templates from the Lis drawings, but Bud's lines just faired in so well, I went with them. Even though Bud's lines have more rocker, it is still a flat board by 'modern' standards, fast too!
I was going to make my blank from eps and glass with epoxy too, but the added time for making a hot wire and the blank, weighed against the relatively low cost of the clark blank tipped the scales. I use epoxy nearly every day (boatbuilding), and have recently built a cedar strip canadian canoe, sheathed in glass/epoxy, and would agree about the greater flexibility of using epoxies as regard to cure times. You can usually mix hardeners to engineer you cure time to suit! When laminating a board, just be careful not to 'work' the resin with the squeegee in the same way as polyester, as it will foam and you cant get rid of the milky streaks (micro bubbles).
Are you going to seal the blank with cabosil mix (tacky) before laminating? are you going to paint the board or leave clear?
good luck
Mark
Marky V wrote:Rob
I used the measurements that Bud gave me on this thread for both the outline and the rocker, I made full templates from the Lis drawings, but Bud's lines just faired in so well, I went with them. Even though Bud's lines have more rocker, it is still a flat board by 'modern' standards, fast too!
I surfed a few Lis Fishies during the 70's and they were really FLAT rockered - they went *fast*. But a little more nose rocker would help with my local waves, which jack up fast and steep ... maybe I'll use Bud's rocker dimensions, too.
I was going to make my blank from eps and glass with epoxy too, but the added time for making a hot wire and the blank, weighed against the relatively low cost of the clark blank tipped the scales.
I'm making my own blank using a pair of 2" x 24" x 72" planks of 3/4pcf density eps bead board. The two halves are sandwiched together with a 6" wide strip of 6oz glass down the middle to act as a stringer - this was a recomendation from Greg Loehr (long time surfer/shaper and the man behind RR epoxy) ... Greg says the sandwich/stringer will be as strongs as a rail channels or even a real stringer. Worth a go, I say.
I use epoxy nearly every day (boatbuilding), and have recently built a cedar strip canadian canoe, sheathed in glass/epoxy, and would agree about the greater flexibility of using epoxies as regard to cure times. You can usually mix hardeners to engineer you cure time to suit! When laminating a board, just be careful not to 'work' the resin with the squeegee in the same way as polyester, as it will foam and you cant get rid of the milky streaks (micro bubbles).
Yeah, Greg warned me that squeegeeing epoxy was lots different from the resin world.
Are you going to seal the blank with cabosil mix (tacky) before laminating?
it will be sealed using DAP Fast 'n' Final spackling, slightly thinned to a slurry - after curing/drying it'll get lightly sanded and any voids or dings will get filled/sanded with the full strength DAP.
are you going to paint the board or leave clear?
I'll airbrush the blank just before glassing.
good luck
Mark
Thanx!
Cheers,
Rob.
First I gotta say that I don't believe a kayak belongs in a crowded line-up just because of the nature of the beast ( I do kayak occassionally) but "same category"??? What's the difference between using a paddle, or using swim fins, or using webbed gloves? I don't see your point. It's all surfing.Rob wrote:IMO ...SCGARY wrote:... Most ride a variety of surfcraft from matts to kayaks. There was a kayak in the lineup at Sanddollar and the rest of the guys couldn't have cared less. Very Cool vibe!!!!!
You are a surfer if you surf waves, and use yer hands 'n' feet for propulsion and guidance.
But I gotta draw the line at using paddles.
I've surfed beach and point breaks with a surf skier - there was a mix of long and short boards, a few boogers, and two of us kneelos. The surf ski could catch waves way outside, before they even formed up. There were no bad vibes, and there were waves for all ... but surf skis and kayaks don't belong in the same category as riding yer belly, air matt, bodyboard, paipo, kneeboard, shortboard, funboard, longboard, and paddleboard.
YMMV.