FLASHPOINT

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:46 pm

Geetee- If you want a looser board, try a different template for your outside fins, preferably a more verticle (thus, pivotal) fin. the more rake a fin has, the more down the line it projects.

I would stay with a middle fin, though. - Dan

geetee · Post by **geetee** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:32 pm

Surfhorn,

The outer fins I have are pretty vertical fins at the moment and Parkseys keen for me to leave them there. Maybe I need to lose some weight.

hart · Post by **hart** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:20 pm

How's it geetee,

I don't know what standard FCS centre fin you mean.

But when you said that it went faster when you 'downsized' it can only mean the the old fin (due to size) was creating drag.

So smaller was good..but too small, can be bad.

I don't recommend surfing it as a twinny coz you'd need even bigger rail fins and they should be positioned closer to the tail..and I doubt that you have that option.

Heaps of guys surf with a GS centre fin..at 8.5" up to the trailing edge.

Small area, so it's loose, but close enough to the tail to remain 'of use'..that is, drive.

And Red, the Staffy has a brother..when you have a Daughter that's old enough..never, read absolutely never, let her work in a Pet Shop on weekends, trust me..and the dogs.

Regards, as always.

kripchik · Post by **kripchik** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:19 am

Bruce... Tell me about channels!?!?

I don't get it, what do they do, and how should they be incorporated into a board's design?

Cheers
Sophia

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:31 am

Experimenting with fin template and placement has really kept my surfing fresh and me feeling alive. Nothing like putting in too small of a fin(s) on a big day and then screaming down the line at the paddeling masses, on the verge of being out of control!

I share fins with another KBer, so I have access to a large variety to try until I find a new board's 'sweet' set up. Good luck on finding just the right center fin for that thruster.

-Dan

red · Post by **red** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:58 pm

Surfhorn
Couldnt agree more. We now have a pile of fins between us and have tried a bunch from the trial sets at the shop. Sometimes it's like getting a whole new board. Changing fins helps one figure out what part the fins play in overall board performance. It also means that you can re-read the FCS booklet and speculate when your wife leaves you in the car while she "fetches a few things" from the shops

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:14 pm

Red

I'm working with the Future Systems (www.futuresfins.com) boxes and fins and they seem to be pretty strong so far...although I haven't landed on dry reef yet!

I had used glass-on fins in the past and any boxes that I did use were the wider, Fins Unlimited boxes.

Maybe I'll use the FCS set up on one board and give them a go.

hart · Post by **hart** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:22 pm

Dan, I must say I struggle with the look of the rout of future fins..not to many factories in Sydney are into them.

The fins themselves look strong but.

Can you tell me how the rail fin, in terms of size, compares with say a Merrick (GAM)? and what size is the centre fin..like, is it like a GX for example?

I only use FCS now..not specifically because I think it is the best system..but it does provide a wide range of fin shapes that lets me 'adopt' appropriate standup fin shapes for the kneeboards that I do.

And, if I need something right away..it's at the factory by mid arvo, the same day.

kripchik · Post by **kripchik** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:50 pm

Bruce... Tell me about channels!?!?

I don't get it, what do they do, and how should they be incorporated into a board's design?

Cheers
Sophia

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:41 am

Bruce- Routing for the fin boxes can be tricky. I have years of experience routing in boxes but I don't do it much anymore unless I have to repair one of my kid's boards. Luckily, John Mel at Freeline, who I've worked together on boards for about 35 years (hows that for staying with one shaper?), has the touch when it comes to routing.

My new board is the first 6'0" x 22 3/4" quad I've ridden so I looked for a fin that is along the lines of something that would be used in a Fish type or twin fin shape.

For the front pair, I used the Futures Speciality Fin, the FT1:
Height: 5 1/8" 130.1 mm
Base: 4 13/16" 121.9 mm
Area: 19.8 sq in 127.7 sq cm
Design: G. McNabb
This set comes with a 3 1/4" trailer for a thruster set up

For the rear pair, I used a AM2 pair:
Height: 4 3/4" 120.6 mm
Base: 4 11/16" 119.4 mm
Area: 19.3 sq in 105.2 sq cm
Design: A. Merrick
This is a nice design. It has good rake and I am probably going to try a similar template for the front pair as well.

At first, I tried a pair of SB1 350 for the rear set [ height: 3 1/2" - made as side fins for longboards.....there is Merrick design (SB2) but with more rake] but it made it so loose that I was a danger to any living thing in the water.

John and I have both ridden the boad with the current fin set up and are pretty happy with the performance; John has already cut out a couple more. The only thing we haven't ridden are small waves; it hasn't dropped below 6 feet for some time now.

I'll be working on a 6'0" thruster next..a little more of a pulled in nose- a bit more racey template. I usually ride thrusters as compared to fish/quads and I want something for a larger, down the line surf. It looks like I may be in Tahiti for the Worlds so it would be nice to have one of each style in the bag.

-Dan

DavidW · Post by **DavidW** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:34 am

Kripchick, channels do the same thing as concave. They both direct the flow of water under your board to enhance perfmance.

Beeline2.0 · Post by **Beeline2.0** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:05 am

kripchik · Post by **kripchik** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:28 pm

Hey Beeline

Thanks for that.

How noticeable is the difference between a board with concaves compared to one without?

Cheers
Sophia

red · Post by **red** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:34 pm

Kripchick
Check out the long and intense discussion at
http://www.kneeboardsurfing.co.uk/forum ... c.php?t=29
The debate goes on.
Watch how Baden's boards go. They are all deep concaves.
Farrer, Kyle, Coleman ride fairly flat bottoms, although there is subtle concave to channel the water backwards.

hart · Post by **hart** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:28 pm

Hi Sophia..

All the responses to your question are accurate..it's all about water flow.

Tommy Carrol used front foot channels during his World Title reign, principally to straighten his bottoms and direct water under his feet where he would base his power from. But TC's channels were all 'belly' channels whereas the other popular channel concept of the late 80's were tail channels.

Heaps of Queensland Shapers used tail channels..and as Beeline wrote, you need good clean waves for them to really work (think Kirra, Burleigh and that)..

But Greg Webber turned contempory thought on its head with the concave revolution of the ealy 90's and channels were not used in Sydney or the Gold Coast since.

Concaves were not new..I saw my first concave bottom in the mid 70's, but Webber introduced more rocker and better foils which allowed the design to maximise its potential.

In my opinion concaves are absolutely essential to modern kneeboards..they allow me to introduce water directly under the surfer's weight..directly into the 'engine room'.

It's a simple thing, but water always travels down hill..it WILL take the shortest route and even the subtlest of conc's will achieve this..like even 1 or 2 millimetres is all you need.

And if a kneeboard DIDN'T have a conc?..I reckon it would be the slowest thing in the water..

Surfhorn..I'll have to look at the Merricks, coz anything I see this guy do, just seems awesome.

Kneeboard Surfing USA Community Forum

FLASHPOINT

Centre fins

Channels

Futures

Channels