FLASHPOINT
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Beeline2.0
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Eric Carson
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Jeff
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Wide point
Hi Mr Hart,Thank you for your insite on board design its interesting to read. I have a question I'm currently riding a Blast thruster, and I was thinking about moving the wide point of the board forward a little. I have a forward leaning stance.Now if the wide spot was moved forward would you have to move the fins forward as well.Thank you for your time hope all is good.
Best Regards Jeff
Best Regards Jeff
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hart
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The lines of bees
You know Beeline..couldn't have put it better if I tried.
And if you think of the straightest line between two points, as water does, don't other things in nature do the same?
Like Bees?
Regards from OZ.
And if you think of the straightest line between two points, as water does, don't other things in nature do the same?
Like Bees?
Regards from OZ.
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geetee
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- Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Hey Hart,
I've been thinking about this fin thing I agree that riding it as a twinny is not the best idea I've ever had. I've come to the point where I think it is some bad habits I've gotten into. I'm currently surfing too far along the wave thus getting too side on instead of low bottom turns and therefore getting a more vertical approach back up the wave. I came to this conclusion the other day as I went for the big bottom turn way before getting to the bottom breaking out the fins and getting a lip in the head for my trouble. Brendan thought this was less than elegant. Back to the drawing board and basics. Still it's good to know you are never too old to learn eh.
I've been thinking about this fin thing I agree that riding it as a twinny is not the best idea I've ever had. I've come to the point where I think it is some bad habits I've gotten into. I'm currently surfing too far along the wave thus getting too side on instead of low bottom turns and therefore getting a more vertical approach back up the wave. I came to this conclusion the other day as I went for the big bottom turn way before getting to the bottom breaking out the fins and getting a lip in the head for my trouble. Brendan thought this was less than elegant. Back to the drawing board and basics. Still it's good to know you are never too old to learn eh.
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hart
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Open Discussion
Jeff, I've been thinking about your Blast Thruster and wondering why you want to move the widepoint forward?
With your stance as you describe, I'm not sure why you'd want to push the w/p up..because this may pull YOU further forward and that may not be a good thing.
Generally the w/p should be a little forward of your actaul knee position..so only guys (and women) who kneel close to the centre (or indeed more forward) need their wide points up.
And surfers that ride way back on their tails, will have w/p's back even further.
Let me know the intention of your thought and I'll pickup from there.
Eric..generally speaking all Airfreight is based on cubic capacity NOT weight..so when Shipping surfboards, two will only ever cost as much as one.
Logistically, always try to 'team up' and order to therefore halve the freight costs.
Additionally, you can either do a Door to Door consignment..like it gets delivered to your front door, or a Door to Airport consignment..and you pick it up from US Customs yourself..this is half the cost of a d-door and could be less than say $200 USD for one or $100 USD (each) for two.
BUT..to do a Door to Airport,the Airport has to accept International Airfreight..like all West Coast stuff has to enter via LAX for example.
And to Geetee..sounds like you need more rail in the water..going sideways before you reach the bottom is never a good look!
Did you not go the smaller centre fin?
Regards to all from OZ
With your stance as you describe, I'm not sure why you'd want to push the w/p up..because this may pull YOU further forward and that may not be a good thing.
Generally the w/p should be a little forward of your actaul knee position..so only guys (and women) who kneel close to the centre (or indeed more forward) need their wide points up.
And surfers that ride way back on their tails, will have w/p's back even further.
Let me know the intention of your thought and I'll pickup from there.
Eric..generally speaking all Airfreight is based on cubic capacity NOT weight..so when Shipping surfboards, two will only ever cost as much as one.
Logistically, always try to 'team up' and order to therefore halve the freight costs.
Additionally, you can either do a Door to Door consignment..like it gets delivered to your front door, or a Door to Airport consignment..and you pick it up from US Customs yourself..this is half the cost of a d-door and could be less than say $200 USD for one or $100 USD (each) for two.
BUT..to do a Door to Airport,the Airport has to accept International Airfreight..like all West Coast stuff has to enter via LAX for example.
And to Geetee..sounds like you need more rail in the water..going sideways before you reach the bottom is never a good look!
Did you not go the smaller centre fin?
Regards to all from OZ
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Beeline2.0
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Jeff
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Whats up Hart thanks for the replie,well the reason is I surf in a forword lean, and I noticed that Simon surfs leaning forword as well. it looks like his boards are a little fatter in the front.But he's getting so much drive with his boards.If this makes any sence I'm a little spent I just got off of work.
Regards Jeff
Regards Jeff
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hart
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All things
Beeline,
What you describe is accurate..but Jeff may be simply responding to what he's riding..like maybe he's looking for more forward drive but his fins, for example are keeping him positioned back.
If he were to move the wide point forward, then by all means, he should move the fins forward as well. But as you say..his projection would be more pronounced and there goes any degree of verticality..and to get vertical, it means we get to the lip. And the lip is where it's at.
I examined Bud's Aussie Tri and found my rail fins were in fact further forward than his, yet my centre fin was further back. Interesting. Like very different.
I want guys to get to the lip any time they want..so lose some rail volume.
I want surfers to draw the longest line that they want..whenever. So lengthen the relationship between your rail fins and the centre fin so that YOU become the master of your fate..like rail fins for pivot and centre fin for drive.
To pivot around your rail fins..stay a little upright. To drive a little longer..stay low and push. You can put it together if you try.
And Jeff..all Simon's boards that are under six-o, have their wide point at half way or behind..I kinda think his bottomcurve and rail foil (and fins and everything bloody else) contribute MORE than his outlines. Having said that, where are you considering placing your wide point..is it forward of half way?
GT..I think of that every time I surf..like (I know I'm getting older) but I conciously think of technique and application on every (precious) wave I catch..get so pissed off if I let something really lame ruin an opportunity.
I know what you mean, only too well.
Regards, once more from OZ
What you describe is accurate..but Jeff may be simply responding to what he's riding..like maybe he's looking for more forward drive but his fins, for example are keeping him positioned back.
If he were to move the wide point forward, then by all means, he should move the fins forward as well. But as you say..his projection would be more pronounced and there goes any degree of verticality..and to get vertical, it means we get to the lip. And the lip is where it's at.
I examined Bud's Aussie Tri and found my rail fins were in fact further forward than his, yet my centre fin was further back. Interesting. Like very different.
I want guys to get to the lip any time they want..so lose some rail volume.
I want surfers to draw the longest line that they want..whenever. So lengthen the relationship between your rail fins and the centre fin so that YOU become the master of your fate..like rail fins for pivot and centre fin for drive.
To pivot around your rail fins..stay a little upright. To drive a little longer..stay low and push. You can put it together if you try.
And Jeff..all Simon's boards that are under six-o, have their wide point at half way or behind..I kinda think his bottomcurve and rail foil (and fins and everything bloody else) contribute MORE than his outlines. Having said that, where are you considering placing your wide point..is it forward of half way?
GT..I think of that every time I surf..like (I know I'm getting older) but I conciously think of technique and application on every (precious) wave I catch..get so pissed off if I let something really lame ruin an opportunity.
I know what you mean, only too well.
Regards, once more from OZ
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Eric Carson
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Tom Linn
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A quesiton for Hart- What are your thoughts as regards kneeboard volume and weight? I have found that in small to meduim waves, lighter, thinner boards seem to work sooo much better. Of course you pay for lightness with less durability. My observation of many Aussie boards are that they tend to be a bit heavy as compared to my favorite California boards. How heavy (or light) are Simon's, Kyle's, Albert's, the Simpson's boards?
This question relates to everyday kneeboards for small to meduim surf.
thanks in advance.......................Tom Linn
This question relates to everyday kneeboards for small to meduim surf.
thanks in advance.......................Tom Linn
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hart
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Volume and weight
Hi Tom,
Volume and weight are in fact, two distinctly different commodities..and with all respect, I wonder when you describe 'other' Aussie boards that you've seen, whether you have seen mine.
'Other' Aussie boards that I see are clumsily bulky, weigh too much and would feel unbearably corky for me (personally).
You are right when you talk of 'refinement'..boards with low volume, foiled rails feel unreal in small to medium waves and it's something that I really strive to achieve.
Again personally, I'm sure you are aware that I'm over 6' 2" tall and I weigh 200lbs. I ride a 5' 10" (at the moment) that would be probably two and five eight thick..but prefer two and a half. I'm not as fit as I should be..so I went the extra thickness..(and besides, I'm turning 47 in May!)
And of course, I don't wear flippers. I catch (almost) every wave I paddle for. And I don't shape corks just to get some overweight surfer out of a heat..performance, when it counts, says more to me than a contest t-shirt.
Now weight, is another matter..coz any of my surfers have the opportunity to have whatever glass on their boards that they want.
Specifically, Simon's boards are all MAXIMUM thickness..read 2.75" and are FULLY laminated. 6 + 4 oz deck, PLUS 4 oz toe patch with a 4 oz bottom.
Kyle's boards are also FULL thickness, but with 1 x 4 oz only on the deck..same as Nov.
But with all my shapes, irrespective of centre thickness, the rails and contours are FULLY foiled..like no bulk at the rail line at all..and therein lies the distinct difference between mine and the 'others'.
I cannot answer for Albert or the Simpsons..but I do think that they break their tails too much for my liking..if Farrer lost one of his deep carves off the top like I see in some other guys..he would come straight back and throw the bloody thing at me.
When I see a cutback, I want to see drive..a tail slide and cuttie to me, are two totally different things. Cutties come from of a rail turn, not a tail turn. And rails need low volume to sink.
But nonetheless..your observations are accurate.
Volume and weight are in fact, two distinctly different commodities..and with all respect, I wonder when you describe 'other' Aussie boards that you've seen, whether you have seen mine.
'Other' Aussie boards that I see are clumsily bulky, weigh too much and would feel unbearably corky for me (personally).
You are right when you talk of 'refinement'..boards with low volume, foiled rails feel unreal in small to medium waves and it's something that I really strive to achieve.
Again personally, I'm sure you are aware that I'm over 6' 2" tall and I weigh 200lbs. I ride a 5' 10" (at the moment) that would be probably two and five eight thick..but prefer two and a half. I'm not as fit as I should be..so I went the extra thickness..(and besides, I'm turning 47 in May!)
And of course, I don't wear flippers. I catch (almost) every wave I paddle for. And I don't shape corks just to get some overweight surfer out of a heat..performance, when it counts, says more to me than a contest t-shirt.
Now weight, is another matter..coz any of my surfers have the opportunity to have whatever glass on their boards that they want.
Specifically, Simon's boards are all MAXIMUM thickness..read 2.75" and are FULLY laminated. 6 + 4 oz deck, PLUS 4 oz toe patch with a 4 oz bottom.
Kyle's boards are also FULL thickness, but with 1 x 4 oz only on the deck..same as Nov.
But with all my shapes, irrespective of centre thickness, the rails and contours are FULLY foiled..like no bulk at the rail line at all..and therein lies the distinct difference between mine and the 'others'.
I cannot answer for Albert or the Simpsons..but I do think that they break their tails too much for my liking..if Farrer lost one of his deep carves off the top like I see in some other guys..he would come straight back and throw the bloody thing at me.
When I see a cutback, I want to see drive..a tail slide and cuttie to me, are two totally different things. Cutties come from of a rail turn, not a tail turn. And rails need low volume to sink.
But nonetheless..your observations are accurate.