channel bottoms

[ross]

headwax,
the only other kneeboard i've seen up close with channels off the tail was shaped by Peter Daniell (mona vale) around 1990-91 owned by one Mick Novakov.he rode it well as you'd expect but i just loved the look of it.
no shaper i've ever dealt with would do em for me.so i had to wait till i had the confidence to tackle them myself.
i have a friend in Newcastle who does em for Hoy.with beers in hand we got talking about em.he showed me a few original Col Smith(Newcastle) boards as well as a few he has punched out recently and he also showed me how to shape them .
being a little kid when i spied Novs board i was to in awe to ask him what he liked about it ,so i had no idea what to expect.
i cant exaggerate the PROJECTION you get in your turns on this board.turns on the wave face can be pushed alot further out of the pocket than on normal boards.
they are fast.i actually caught a guy at pelos the other day after telling him to go thinking i was to far back.he even commented on how i had caught up to him so i must not be imagining it
stiffness is a myth with channel bottoms.they are looser and way more responsive.although i must say that surfing upright will slow the thing down,due to reduced volume in the tail.
this just forces you to be on your game a bit more eh?

as for your other questions regarding the photo;
i've probably shaped more than 50 boards since i was 15.being a carpenter has helped with the eye and familiarity with the tools.but i'm sure i'm the worlds slowest

as for FCS dont even start me.they wouln't sell me the plugs for reasons i wont get into here.
so i went to the above mentioned mate and now i can get all the plugs i want at his discounted rate.silly gooses lost a sale/regular customer and in aroundabout way i'm getting em cheaper .sucked in dickheads(FCS that is )
sorry i told you not to start me.
and one of my oldest friend's dad owns a good sized glassing factory which helps.

[KAVA]

MY QUAD HAS 4 CHANNELS SHAPED OFF THE TAIL. SHAPED BY ROLAND. i LIVE THAT BOARD AND PLAN TO GET THAT SHAPE AGAIN LATER A COUPLE BOARDS FROM NOW

[stevea]

good luck with the channels ross hope you keep enjoying them i know they work but just ask a glasser or sander how good channels are and the response maybe they are for great for paddling out through as for fcs you scored well i also tried and settled for fin solution clones from fms ps was that you on the yellow board at the box last year

[damo]

andrew,i have one of hoyos boards that he surfed in his last g-land comp,it has a very nice channel bottom....if you have been a good boy ill show you.

[ross]

steve,
yeah mate the glassers hit me hard when i go to em with channels .

that was me out box that day.it was cooking eh?i only caught 6 waves that day,my last one i got from the peak at the channel marker all the way to the sand(thats nearly 2 kilometres people).
thats the only time i've done that!i actaully had to have a spew at the end of the wave .

i dont think its broken well since

andrew,
liked the experimenting with the camera on the rocker mate.
to answer your question no i dont employ concave leading into the channels.
i have a rocker that i've used for a long time.(apart from the odd experiment).the channel bottom is virtually one of my normal small wave boards(5' 10"x 23",flat bottom,rolled-low rails) with channels shaped in it.
so the comparison is based on the channels only.
on the subject of rocker i think the channels also add tail lift which might explain why they have the reputation for going better in good waves(i have found this to be the case)
as far as concaves go.i just scratch my head sometimes.every time i think i have the concept sussed someone opens up a new can os worms its all good fun though isnt it?

[red]

Interesting that stevea made the nose to tail concave in the 70's.
I know Baden got the concept from Albert, possibly around a similar time. Wonder what it was that took shapers down that path?
Baden worked with Hutchy for years and now Steve Pointing. His latest 5'9" nose to tail concave is very good. It is fast all the time. The edgy rails do create some issues, though.

I'm a firm believer that concaves ahead of the rocker low point must be complemented by concaves or channels behind the rocker low point otherwise you bring all this water under the surfer without giving it anywhere to go. Standup surfers 'step' the board out of this condition but kneeboarders have a problem doing this.

who convinced me that fat tails don't cut the mustard in small waves

Fat at the rails - yes - can't be buried by the power we have in our ankles to transfer to the tail.
But it's possible to keep the rails down while keeping volume at the stringer. This helps immensely for paddling into (small) waves.
I believe it works like this: The wave approaches from the rear. Tail lifts in response. Wave moves under board.
1)Too thin tail starts to sink in response, putting board into stall (actually this nose-up position prevents the board getting sucked down the face because gravity is not pulling the surfer's weight in the right direction, but rather down through the rocker low point, so the board can't plane).
2)Volume in tail does opposite. Tail floats and lifts. Nose points down face, directing surfer's weight down the face along the stringer line (and into the optimal rocker entry point). Gravity sucks and the boards starts moving down the face.
This paddling model holds for acceleration down the face after every top turn.

How do tail channels fit in with this model?
In my experience tail channels encourage the tail of the board to lift (but this may just be the increased tail kick and water exit that is facilitated by the channels).

[hart]

I find tail lift gives nose dive on takeoff.

..and yet it is used to assist take-off in larger, more hollow waves by some shapers..

Maybe look at overall rocker, rather than individual components?

Can we think of channels as small concaves?

Tom Carroll's centre channels (as did Simon Farrer's courtesy of Albert) of the late 80's - early 90's, created straight(er) lines through the apex of your bottomcurve..

Thereby lessening the length of board over which water needed to travel ( = speed)

{qualification it is the lessened curve, not necessarily the lessened length that achieves this. Length combined with curve is uniquely relative}

By the mid 90's however, Greg Webber and Insight simply reintroduced the concave (and particularly the inverted shape it created) and achieved the same result...

and he did so with length

He just happenned to do it without putting straight (absolute) lines into his shapes (and channels are a direct result of straight lines)



and there aint nothin' straight in the Ocean (or in my posts, for that matter )

And to quote directly from Simon in NSG 2005

.."Everyone can learn from someone"..

Good advice, huh?

hart

ps

stevea..I'll talk to Wortho this week

pps

wax..one day I'll tell you about Albert's dog, Buddy..getting run-over in Harbord Road and living to tell his tail..ha

[john -]

I find tail lift gives nose dive on takeoff.

..and yet it is used to assist take-off in larger, more hollow waves by some shapers..

Maybe look at overall rocker, rather than individual components?

Is this to say that tail lift will at times go with flatter nose rocker cos id have to agree with the wax on experience regarding nose dive

despite my boards both being the same length its the nose rocker on the flashpoint that has me pulling it out in 4ft plus steep waves

[Bob]

I would have thought double concave for small wave boards and channels in the tail and vee for large clean waves...but you would have to ask someone that knows better. Just remember, though, that every little thing that you do to a board makes it ride better in some conditons, but maybe, not as well in all conditions.

Example: I have two channel bottoms (6 tail channels) One is for large surf and it works great in large off shore smooth waves. The other is for small clean waves and works great until it goes onshore then I can barely get to shore.

[Bob]

I guess I should ask...Do channels in the tail work differently for "turning off the tail" riders or "turning off the rail" riders ( fins up or fins back)?

Maybe Buddy of Hart have an answer.