Questions for Quad Riders ........

What works & what doesn't and in what type of conditions. Got a "secret" only you and your shaper know???? Post it here... we can keep it quiet ;-)

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Have you felt the effect of 'quad boost'?

I ride a quad and have never felt it.
4
9%
I ride a quad and have felt it often.
28
65%
I ride a quad and have felt it seldom.
2
5%
I ride a tri and have never seen it in other surfers.
3
7%
I ride a tri and think that I have seen it.
1
2%
el zorro está de sus tuercas!!!!
5
12%
 
Total votes: 43

hannya
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questions for quad riders

Post by hannya »

Somewhat intresting thread. Is boost more a feeling than fact? If you compare the size of a sail to the boat it propels. Fins on a board are either
very efficient or HMMM? Dare I say.
Rovings? cause lift where?
Havent heard of a flow machine that can replicate the movement of water
on the face of a wave or the interaction of fin and board at all angles of attack. Would be intresting if someone did. Then all this would be data and proven with numbers and computers. Would shapers and fin makers be craftsmen or engineers. :roll:
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Kauaikneelo
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Post by Kauaikneelo »

ITS LIKE PUTTING YOUR FLAT HAND OUT THE WINDOW OF A CAR. THE AIR IS MOVING AT A CONSTANT RATE (SPEED OF CAR OR FACE OF A
WAVE) WHEN YOU MOVE YOUR HAND, YOU CAN FEEL WHEN PRESSURE WOULD CAUSE THRUST OR SPEED UP FEELING. SAME WITH SURFING
NOW PUT TWO FIN SHAPED HANDS SIDE BY SIDE AND SEE WHAT CAN HAPPEN - MAYBE A WHOLE NEW CONCEPT
Aloha from the Kingdom of Atooi
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zorro
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Post by zorro »

Hannya

w regards to the "lift"

this is part of the conclusion:
The work has shown that the presence of fillets can decrease the overall drag of the fin, even though the viscous drag is increased due to the added surface area, the smoothing of the sharp edges between the fin and the board causes pressure distributions to be spread over a larger area.
However, this decrease in drag is restricted to double-foiled fins such as the middle fin, and there is very little noticeable difference when fillets are added to the side fins, possible due to the fact that the whole inside edge is flat, so the effect on drag of filleting the base is less pronounced than for a double foiled fin (middle fin).
However, even for the middle fin the total drag decrease is so marginal that it is unlikely to be noticed in practise, even by expert surfers, but the fillets do create a substantial increase in vertical lift, which may partially explain the more buoyant, lighter feel to glassed-on fins, and
their preference in use by surfers on the professional circuit.
my italics


KAUAIKNEELO

getting interesting :lol:

cheers
hannya
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questions for quad riders

Post by hannya »

Thanks Zorro
Ive never heard the fillets called roving I didnt know what component was being refered to. Most modern fighter jets use blended wing technology not only for stealth but increased lift, less drag as stated. just read on another site one reason pros use glass on fins while in the islands is for strength. I thought the primary purpose of fillets were for strength due to increased surface mating area without digging into the foam. I believe that was one method of fin installation way back.
I maybe wrong but what some are refering to and Im not sure the spellings right is bernoulli's principle or law how a wing creates lift. The air going over the top of the wing slows down due to the curve on the upper surface while the bottom surface being straight the air continues at normal speed. Creating a high pressure area on the bottom of the wing and low pressure area on the top of the wing making lift. Thrust is a different story i think now i have to look it up :wink:
If hydrodynamics and aerodynamics are the same then the fin thats foiled on one side will try to turn to the low pressure foiled side of the fin.
I liked that Idea when I got my first twinfin fish around 1973.
We'll figure it out some how. Swell due tomorrow?
Ler
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quad boy

Post by Ler »

I haven't ridden but a guad since 1981, I don't know the difference from my a hole to my belly button. Thought you should know.

Ler
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Smokin Rock
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Post by Smokin Rock »

I don't know the difference from my a hole to my belly button.

Ler,
just like startrek........search for the klingons.
"This sucks more than anything that has ever sucked before." Butt-head
Ler
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?

Post by Ler »

Could call I will do that.
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zorro
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Post by zorro »

Hy Hannya
calling on bernoulli (or a venturi) to explain something is frought with danger. Many a bloody battle has been fought and lost/not lost on the subject, here and on swaylocks :roll:

but it does exist in real life

in a big west wind the lee side windows of my house are sucked outwards

or Mr Bernouilli's wig: 8)

album_showpage.php?pic_id=1389

mind you the wind could be getting under the wig :!:

same way as in an toed in fin, the water could be hitting outside edge causing a turning moment

or in a wing angled slightly up, the air could be hitting the underneath, giving lift

and in a bonzer, there could be just more water sent off the tail area of the board, giving more thrust

or the rocker of a board, whether the board is foiled or not, will cause a turning moment because of the water hitting the rail nose lift from the bottom (Stand in waist deep water, put the board on edge and push it forward - presto, the board turns :roll: )

Ler

I thought I was obtuse. I haven't ridden a quad since tuesday. :P
Ler
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QUAD

Post by Ler »

Zorro,
You took the words from my mouth tHANK YOU.
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Post by Beeline2.0 »

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Post by Beeline2.0 »

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Post by zorro »

"From Q and A with the New York Times"

Q. How can a plane fly upside down? Why doesn't the shape of the wings force the plane downward?

A. The wing shape is designed to create relatively lower pressure above the wing as it meets the oncoming airstream, according to the Fort Worth Division of the General Dynamics Corporation in Fort Worth, Tex., and the key word is relatively.

If you hold a piece of paper at the bottom edge, let it flop away from you and blow hard across it, the paper rises, company spokesmen explained, because you have created lower pressure above the curved surface it forms. The same thing would work upside down, because the pressure differential would still exist. The question is how to get it to work for you rather than against you.

According to Joe Bill Dryden, senior experimental test pilot for General Dynamics, many factors affect flying ability, but one key to flying upside down is attaining the right angle of attack, one of the major contributors to lift.

Loosely speaking, he said, the angle of attack is the angle at which the wind is coming at the plane. If you draw a line from the leading edge to the trailing edge of the wing's airfoil, or cross section, it must always form a small angle toward the direction at which the wind approaches the plane.

"Upside down, if you do nothing, the airplane wants to fall to the ground," he said. "But if you push the plane so it is at the same angle as right side up, you develop enough lift so the plane flies upside down."

The pilot feels his way to that angle. When sufficient lift is achieved, Mr. Dryden said, "the airplane doesn't know if it is flying upside down or not."

The Pitt Special, a biplane made especially for acrobatics, has a symmetrical airfoil that presents exactly the same profile to the oncoming airstream both top and bottom, to make flying upside down easier, Mr. Dryden said. The plane also has oil and fuel systems designed for the gravitational condition of flying upside down, a limiting factor for other planes. A jumbo passenger jet, for example, could perhaps fly upside down only 15 or 20 seconds before its internal systems would be disrupted.
Oddly enough, with the AOA on a toed in fin you might expect the board to turn in the other direction to what it does ie towards the stringer (or would you? 8) )

unless of course more water was striking the rear of the outside edge the fin

or that the placement of the fin near the rail created a turning force that greatly outweighed the force generated by the toe in.

anyone familar with "ground effect" (pelicans flying over the ocean surface?)
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Post by Beeline2.0 »

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Last edited by Beeline2.0 on Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fooj
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Post by fooj »

Martin,
Aren't you an engineer?
bongbong
*
W.G. Facenda
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Post by W.G. Facenda »

I have 3 boards that have no toe - in and they are quadfish.They ride like the keel fish but hold better and you don't have to setup your turns nearly as much.....very fast boards also. The fins are smaller and narrow base and are dead straight with no cant at all. I am taking them to G land with me soon...
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