off the rack vs handmade

[KAVA]

inspired by a recently deleted post. I know this issue has been beaten to death in the mags >>thats why i added a poll

Boards mass produced, by a noname shaper for a well known shaper or surfshop. should be cheaper but most items off the rack are usually marked up. vs custom made how you like it by the shaper in question.

Wetsuits (no poll) mass produced by a third party then slapped with a label of a popular surfwear company. vs custom, i little more expensive but fits like it is suposed to. usually hand made in home country.

((((poll retraction: replace the word "mass produced" with "Generic")))))

[analbirth]

Boards definitly custom, but wetys off the rack, i've tried a few times to order custom wet suits only to have em come back way too tight,
you need them to fit you right when u try em on not when you've commited to paying for something sight unseen. Although i've had a few ordinary custom boards in the past usually when u have no input, like ordering from a shaper in another city. AB

[hannya]

I havent seen a new kneeboard on the racks on this island since the early eighties. Handmade customs the way to go it's designed with you in mind
with the shapers pride,skill and knowledge.
Off the rack wetsuit for diving only

[JackG]

With the newer extra stretchy neoprene, I see little need for custom wetsuits for surfing any more. Ten years ago there was a big advantage if you weren't a skinny teenager or the median height/weight. I got my last custom at a shop on Mission heading north out of SC near Arrow in 1997.

[ScottMac]

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[Beeline2.0]

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[TIMO]

Once I stopped stealing my older brother’s kneeboards, I started to only get custom made boards for myself. I tried many different shapers with different levels of success, the more time you spend with your shaper in the beginning the less time you have to spend in the long run, because they get to know your needs ect.
I have found Mr Hart to be the exception to this rule as when you go to pick up your board from him it’s like going to the NASA of kneeboarding and you come away with a very exact knowledge of what you are riding and why , in regards to all the facets of the design, history and everything else . I can only compare the intensity with sitting an exam at uni. Passion can’t be explained in five minutes, I have to let the wife drive after that as I’m still thinking rocker and rails .
I have no doubt that custom boards give better results, no matter who is the shaper, as you have a fixed design point from which to work from and develop for your self and your style.
Wetsuits on the other hand I buy off the rack, they seem to always fit eventually and you find which brand and cut suits you best

[jamie]

Kava,
just like to ask about your original post.
I think to suggest that any kneeboard was mass produced is a strange comment.How many boards do you think any one shaper might make in a year ?
By mass produced are you suggesting there is kneeboard production line somewhere that churning out boards- even four boards in a day
The only guys who make stock kneeboards in Australia are working fulltime in the board building business, they are generally availble to talk about stock boards that are available to buy while you are in the shop.
These guys are in small towns that generally people visit rather than live in,so it suits kneelos to be able to buy a board while they are there.
Your wetsuit question is almost as strange.
All of the core wesuit suppliers that i am aware of have design and R&D dept that develop wetsuits with unique features for each brand.
tha fact that a lot of wetsuits from different brands are mad in the same factory is a quality and economic issue as opposed to the brands slapping a logo onto a stock wetsuit design.
With regard to your comment on sweat shop labour - what makes you think that a factory in australia,USA, hawaii or Europe is any less a sweat shop than one in Asia. If buying garments or wetsuits with a made in your country label inside makes you feel warm and fuzzy then go ahead but dont be suprised if its still made by migrant labour who are paid below award wages in poor conditions or worse case the garment was made in Asia and the country of origin label was changed to avoid paying quota and duties.
If you are going to post stuff with comment s including mass production with reference to kneeboards and custom made wetsuits in western countries than expect others to be scathing in response.
I have met most of the known kneeboard shapers in Australia + the US(bar Romonsky) and also work in the garment/surf industry so feel I am reasonably informed with regard to matters you raised.

[toofast3]

Ok think about this... Remember when you learned how to kb...... Did you know anything about the board what you were doing ?? What was the board designed to do ?? Where you as good as the board ?? Better ??
My thought... The first kb I bought( used) just looked cool. Didn`t know anything about what the board was about.After awhile ,few yrs, and riding the older guys kbs, I learned a thing or two. Then off to the garage I went to shape one for myself. Learned even more (harder then it seemed).Rode that board over 5 yrs. Next one was by a local shop and explain to them the best I could about what I liked about the other boards I had riddin. I gave them the basic shape I wanted and them go at it. They gave me a board that I still have now. Then, as I got better, I wanted something different. So a couple more custom boards and a few garage boards later, I`m a happy boy. I`m riding excatly what" I "want to ride.
So , when learning , I would say buy whats at the shop. Then, as you progress, order a custom board.

[Bintang Bob]

I agree with toofast3 on the boards..... as for wetsuits, I used to get them custom made at the swap meet at the Sports Arena in San Diego. I've got really skinny legs and am long through the torso, most wetsuit makers now produce a large-tall and that's working out just fine with Aleda being the best fit..... on a completely different subject, I was looking through the members list and there's way more KBer's from the San Diego area than anywhere else in the world, what's up with that must be something in the water...

[KAVA]

The off the rack board wow i am suprised they dont have any off the rack boards any place other than orange county calif there are 2 shops withing 5 miles of my house that have at least 1 brand new knee board sitting in the rack waiting to be sold (2 more shops within 20 miles). no custom measurements according to your likes or dislikes. as for the sweatshop well maybe i went a little overboard (pun) lol. I was inspired by a certain surfboard shaper (initials AM) and the potatoe chip surfboards that get put out in mass quantities. also a good "shaper" friend of mine before he made a name for himself. He would shape boards for another shaper but put the other guys lam on it. I was under the impression this is the norm for big shops and hoped that a shaper would chime in. Technically a used board would qualify as a "off the rack" type board because it wasnt made specific just for you. A board bought over the net the same thing.

Custom: made to a specific standard as requested by the buyer before the board is made. To be made by special order in reguards to shape, width, thickness, add features not available on stock boards. etc etc etc...


as for the wetsuits. personally i had to take a step back when a friend at a certain clothing company told me that thier wetsuits were purchased from a central company. That company made wetsuits for other clothing companies from the same materials and their name put on it. They were just like the other "Clothing" companys as opposed to those made in the shop by a wetsuit company .

[skansand]

hey kava what shops??...i was in froghouse today and saw barry checkin out some fins......i was looking for boards....they had one chunky 5'6 romo and some standup fishes that looked intriguing...then theres that shop (on the st paralell to main st hb)...with the huge windows....they usually have a ballestar or two////ive seen kneeboards in rockin fig but only once.....so what shops are you talkin about????

[KAVA]

the frog house, the green room- newport, Infinity and Beach Comber

rockin fig is a bonus

(i have purchased stock boards at the frog house (a romo) and beach comber (chuck dent). Infinity advertises they have kneeboards (my dad got my 1st new board there in the 70's so that doesnt count). and i went into the green room and checked out a couple of dean cleary's boards before i ordered a custom from dean myself last year

[red]

If I could walk into a shop and buy a duplicate of a board that a top kneeboarder rode and sanctioned I would like a shot. Sure i may surf differently, be 10kgs different weight, and surf in another place. The fact is this - the board is proven - why should I re-invent from my meagre stock of knowledge?

I spent 30 years working with shapers on custom mades - tweaking here and adjusting there. Sure those boards were good, but I've been prepared to get a new board every 3 months to get them to that point. I've had a fair number of dogs in that time, too.

So what's stopped shapers producing duplicates? Mostly they simply couldn't do it in the past. Technology has made it possible to get pretty close to duplicates.

What makes most of us think that we can help ourselves or kneeboarding progress by our incremental changes to tailormade shapes? Get over it. Most boards out there are never pushed to their limits, so the design isn't even tested. Better to get on a design that can and will perform, and then raise our level of ability to the point where we can understand it and surf it.

Sure, tell me that 1" length and 1/4" width makes "all the difference", so you have to have a custom. I'll tell you it's actually the joy of being looked after by a shaper, the anticipation of a new stick and warm fuzzy feeling of owning a custom that we're after.

Face it - the industry is evolving. Shapers that don't understand they they are merchants of knowledge, not merely highly skilled artisans (sorry about the tautology), are going to have a hard time of it, become high-cost niche players or have to use technology to their advantage. The best analogy I have are furniture makers. Hell, I'd love a custom chair, but stuffed if i have the money.

[john -]

Bought a Strapper of the rack when I was 19 years old...similar to the one that was recently on ebay...frekin gem...a friend of Mick D (the shaper) even paddled up one day to say how they had admired it in the shaping bay

many Strapper boards were like this back then

Ive got used to other philosophies and shapes so I think I couldnt do it it again

but both boards I ride know are second hand and I love both...so maybe I could...if I trusted the shaper and recognised the intention of the shape