Edge vs flyers

[frankfqr]

Well Mr. Red, I do think you've got something here. The fun part will be the transition. And also the location. You've got a BIG advantage over the majority of us "out here" and that being the computer generated shaping system. At least having the grasp of it. Definately a major plus when it comes to minute changes and getting concepts dialed in to there best. Sorry I can provide no input as to how much potential the end result will have but it will be positive. The flyer does break the flow. I vision what you propose should further the exact defination of the power area, enhancing numerous aspects. That exact transition point is interesting when you mind f**k the possibilities. Curved controlled hydroflow chaneled into a flat release point is enticing. Good luck!! THANX FOR THE THREAD!!!!! Toys, don't ya jus luv em.

[red]

This is starting to be fun - thanks for the input.

trouble keeping the radius of my turn constant on cutties

Since you have a pintail it's likely that you have rail curve, so it's probably the flat rocker that's doing it. The board keeps wanting to obey its lines and straighten out. You keep having to overcome it. The arc becomes a series of tangents. The wings probably act at each of the transition points.

Crox,
I notice drag from my knees more than my feet or flippers. That's why I'm puffing up my midrails a bit - to prevent half my leg burying in hard top-turns and cutties.

I think Gigs' arch bar is to stop his feet sliding. He needs it because he turns his board fairly flat. He gets really good results using a flat rocker/tight 3-fin combination.

[Headwax.]

Hya red

to tell you the truth, its probably the concave.
In big turns, the board runs on its outside panels, like a snow ski.
The rider has to keep a constant pressure on the rail to keep it balanced on that panel. If the pressure is not constant then the board wants to sit more on its stringer line (which of course, as you say, has the flat rocker ) Hunch tells me flyers make it harder to keep constant pressure.

same thing happens in windsurfing if you don't keep the front rail locked in in jibe..... (not that windsurfer had flyers)

of course a spiral vee would stop it happening by letting the board want to sit on that outside panel

but then I wouldn't have the same outside panel (would I ) ?

cheers

(pinnier tail probably help too)

[hart]

of course a spiral vee would stop it happening by letting the board want to sit on that outside panel

but then I wouldn't have the same outside panel (would I ) ?

well, simply put..

yes, you could (or is that would)



for something a little more complex..try:

the spiral vee is purely resultant from the stringer-line curve along the bottom which is totally independent of the curve generated by the tucked edge-line of the rail

there is NO reason that one must exist at the expense of the other

On Topic

Edge V Flyers?

Some of the 'flyers' pictured on this thread are nothing but abrupt square-edge chunks taken out of planshapes (and we learnt from Aipa c.78 )

This must naturally break the continuity of the outline, rail-line and bottom curve in such a way that they no longer are in sync..

Let it flow..or just let it go



hart

footnote: Farrer doesn't seem to have a problem with keeping his rail engaged..absolutely no need to break any hearts, huh?

despite the fact he rides double-flyer EVERYTHING

back at you

[griz]

finally some fact to sought out the fiction,lets get off this.

[Headwax.]

Hello Hart

all good points .... as always your posts are designed to make people think

I suppose the real (off topic) question (for me) might be why would anyone ride a board made for two foot and under in six foot conditions I'm afraid I'll have to leave you guessing on that one

as far as a flyer definition.... good that you brought it up .... a very important on topic point

personally, and I could be wrong here, I'd say flyer definition (in both meanings of the word) is upto the individual shaper

I think the only two boards illustrated on this thread were by parkes or artis, both, like yourself, professional master craftsmen, who might have their own opinions -


I think

are nothing but abrupt square-edge chunks taken out of planshapes

might not be a description that both/ either would agree on.


Could be I missed another board provided for illustration and if so I apologise


cheers once again

Andrew

out to lunch for a while

[Headwax.]

this post is off topic sorry

[red]

I guess the only way I'll get an answer to the original question (since no-one remembers this no-edge flyer technique from the 70's) will be to grind bits of the edge off an existing board and see whether the soft edges act as flyers.

[Beeline2.0]

..

[crippler]

I have seen an old single fin with you design red and to be honest it seemed very strange giving a break or release point to both the outline and rail shape must surely create something thats very twitchy.this is 2008 boys they all work for sure but we all know which are proven designs and concepts like hart said simon doesn`t struggle on his double flyer super thick shooters.i reckon if you like the tight outline shapes ie;long pintails you need looser fin setup and if you like me you like looser outlines and wider tails you need super tight fin setup`s to drive. after looking with my tape in hand at heaps of boards at heaps of contest`s this is not that common as an idea as nearly every board from most notably shapers seemed to have the same toe angles across the board strange really.but thats a whole other topic yo

[red]

crippler,
Thanks for the response and input.
Wasn't one of my single fins (never made any single fins).

On fin settings I can't agree. Toe can't be separated from outline and rocker. I know some guys loosen up pintails by shrinking the cluster, but there are other ways to skin this cat. I have adjustable toe, camber and fore/aft fins. Can make a pin as loose as or as directional as. But I like my default setting which gives tons of drive yet loose playfulness, too. Have fun 2' onshore to 10' barrels.

[crippler]

seems you did agree red toe angles like you said are absolutely connected to outline tail shape and surfer requirements but most of the kneeboard shapers don`t seem to agree.after nearly 5 years of creeping arond carparks and contest site`s tape measure in hand each shaper most definately has a very set formula for there boards eg:after i measure somewhere around 30 various boards i notice 5`10 flashy`s swallow`s with the identical toe angles as 6`2 pin sure placement from the tail varies to scale but toe is the same.which is hilarious i reckon.good to hear you are experimenting with the adjustable plugs they have helped me learn a bit this is some thing i`ve have been playin with over the last 12 years.i have also had long discussion with many top stand up shapers who have helped me find my perfect fin set up across the quiver.It is suprising though how little experimentation has been done in this area both in kneeboards and surfboards people pretend they have but the tape never lies.happy experimenting with those plugs