Kneeboard Design and The World's 2007

What works & what doesn't and in what type of conditions. Got a "secret" only you and your shaper know???? Post it here... we can keep it quiet ;-)

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Headwax.
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Kneeboard Design and The World's 2007

Post by Headwax. »

Gooday folks

thanks to everyone who has been posting info re the worlds -

yet I haven't read anything about the board designs ridden in the finals and the semis- or by the hottest surfers in the water.?.

Any info? Size, shape, width, tails, thickness, bottom contours?

The other question I'd like to ask....

Considering the apparent dominance of Australian Kneeboarders in this and the last worlds, how have the (eg) USA board designers changed their boards?

IE is there any appreciable influence on world kneelo design eminating (emanating) from the World Kneeboard Contests?

cheers for any answers

HW :)
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Jon Manss
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Post by Jon Manss »

Hi Mr. Wax
I can't answer your first question, but regarding Australian influence. The answer is yes. We have a fair assembly of Parkes and Flashpoint riders hear as well as Hawaiian Blast. But one thing is very different about our styles of riding. Ross D and I were talking about this. There are more riders here that ride upright rather than leaning forward. Not all but a fair majority. The fin placement is very key with these two styles. Australian boards have a forward fin placement that compliments their longer boards. I think there is a blending of ideas and designs being applied by us. And of course Bruce couldn't get his hands off of every board he saw. Who knows he might take back a little Yankie enginuity.
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Post by surfhorn »

Seems to me I saw a Jon Manss thruster design tearing up some meaty barrels early in the week..........
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Headwax.
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Post by Headwax. »

hi Mr mans and Mr Horn :)

tell me more about everything ... please.

I can imagine Baden's board of course....

Eg what was Barry B riding in terms of design?. Looks like he was wripping. :)

Any insight into Karl Ward's ride? (board)

cheers and beers Image
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eqKneelo
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Post by eqKneelo »

Headwax,
Baden rides a 6'6" Quad in small surf, a 7'2"-8'0 in big stuff. He's around 6'0" tall and very slim.

Gavin was on a 6'0" Flashpoint Tri with a swallow tail. He is 5'9" and around 150-160lbs.

Matty was on a Flashpoint, I believe it was a 6'0"... but it could have been bigger. He is under 6' in height and very slim.

Karl and Team UK seemed to all be on OFF BEAT Kneelos... the shapes were VERY similar with Flashpoints.

Jon Manss is absolutely correct... it's ALL about body position. No one proved that more than former World Champ Gigs Celliers. Air France lost all his boards, so he just paddled out on whatever old Tri Fin was laying around (and I do mean old), and won the Masters Title. (He went down in the Quarters of the main event in a 20 minuet heat that saw one wave over waist high.... otherwise he would have been a threat to win another one.)
I think body position is the one thing us yanks have to work on (if we ever want to surf like Simon/Gavin/Matty/Gigs :wink:.
Last edited by eqKneelo on Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JohnS
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kneeboard design at worlds 2007

Post by frankfqr »

Hello Headwax...Since you pinpoint your imagination leaning toward Baden "of course" then you might have a little more insight into what the mindset is in that direction. His equipment was notably different, I've never seen such a drastic example of concave. His tool of choice had an approximate 3/4 inch. (17mil.?) concave. Hard glassed on chines from nose to tail. Noticed a distinctive lean toward a smaller fin set-up in relation to a 6'6" board...there definatly is a coralation of all things combined to give him the dynamics he requires with his approach. In retrospect his was the most notable standout. Most others had the rider specific preference in relation to fin placement and size, 2-4 fin applications or V versus concave. Alot of "safe" approaches from shaper to rider.....Still, it's all just toys...Unless you choose to showcase on such a visible platform..Cheers.......frank...
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Post by surfhorn »

To us old barrel riders, watching Gavin, Baden, Matty, et al was eye opening.

Eq has the length correct and Jon, the body placement. I'm betting that some bottom designs have to be credited for the board's performance quality. We should ask our friend Hart.

What's up, Bruce?
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Headwax.
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Post by Headwax. »

well thanks for the great and fast feed back :!:

especially EQ the dimensions as related to rider's size - plus the propensity to ride rounded pins.

John S - sorry to be ignorant - what is a reverse quad? The bigger fin at the back?

Frank-
there definatly is a coralation of all things combined to give him the dynamics he requires with his approach. In retrospect his was the most notable standout.
Little bird tells me BS's basic philosophy with the through concave is "nothing should interfere with the water flow". Hence the nose to tail concave. As opposed to hart liking to direct it with his spiral vee. Obviously both are right. :)

Good to see an influence on the British design... As they have two world champs (congrats guys!) I can see them teaching us a lesson in the future. :lol:

Do we have anything specific on fins - especially flex- eg have MR's FCs glass fins infiltrated into the scene?

Anyone get to twiddle with any fin flex? Toe in? Cant?

cheers again

:)

PS noticed wiki is getting bigger from :

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... d=22089356
to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneeboard
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Post by Bryn »

Hi Headwax,

I know the rough dimensions of Karls board is 6' x 22 3/4" x 2 5/8", round pin with single flyer, single concave to spiral vee (not 100% on that) and plenty of tail lift! He's about 6ft and slim build.

Sure Crox could elaborate further but not quite sure how much is top secret...
8)
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Post by john - »

just cross checking information

what does plenty of tail lift provide one with...benefits drawbacks etc?

cheers
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Post by crox »

Firstly ....we have to thank the Aussies for sooooo much 8)

Nearly all of our influences here have come from Australia :D

We looked at the surfers first....& we liked what we saw!
Powerful top to bottom momentum surfing....& to do this requires [in most cases] that leaning forward stance....to fully engage the rail & drive through the turn.

To surf like this requires a certain type of board.

These boards are just about all 3 fin designs & ridden from slightly further back.

We were heavily influenced by Bruce's designs ....we looked at Simon surfing them....& that's the way we wanted to go.
I had seen the difference in Bro's surfing after spending some time with Simon....& he was getting so much more power down.

If you surf with un upright stance its hard to engage the forward rail through a turn....& instead of surfing with momentum through radical moves there tends to be more of a recovery period.

I don't think people realise what a small crew we have here that compete....less than the average club contest in Oz.....we have between 12 & 15 surfers competing at best.....in the whole of the UK
:shock: This puts the team that went to Santa Cruz in perspective....& their success is entirely down to watching the Aussies & their boards.
I guess we have been quite clinical about it!
Jodie of course was surfing a Flashpoint!

We have made great efforts to tune our boards to the riders.....Karl's board has only roll to spiral v in the bottom....in fact none of his boards have concave......it also has a double flyer.
He likes his boards narrow, which inevitably makes a straighter outline.....so to keep the board loose we put a lot of tail lift in it.
To answer Dorje...if you put the board on rail & push it through the water it will naturally want to turn [the rudder effect]....it also allows the nose of the board to lift without having to push the tail down into the water.....& allows for easy release of water off the tail. These designs give Karl the ability to do that super tight top turn...with power.
Karl keeps telling me his board is perfect...so he can't find any drawbacks :lol:.....perhaps in time he will ask for some changes :wink:
Most of our boards have less foam in the nose than Flashpoints .....something that the guys here all seem to like .....& Bryn's board is quite extreme at 5' 11" x 24" x 2 3/8" ......made as a small wave board that will skim easily but engage a rail to carve in the weak conditions.....tell us more Bryn :lol:

We are having a lot of success with the 5' 8" five fin fish....it really does seem like the missing link.....does momentum surfing, turns tight & bites & drives off the bottom....this is what I'm having fun with at the moment.

The inevitable question is....will the American kneelos want to go more the Aussie way??????....[thinking towards NZ in 2009]
There seems to have been a dominance of both Aussie style & design at the contest.....who will your young guys follow?

Ahhhhhhh.....smell that opened can of worms :lol:
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Bob
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Three observations...

Post by Bob »

Speaking in generalizations, it seems that there are two types of Aussie design and riding styles.

One is four fin bards with fins forward which makes the rider surf sitting on his heels but the board goes straight up, well. Dave Parkes' riding in NSG05 shows that style. Tri fins with the back fin really close to the front fins might do the same thing.

The other is Simon's style board(Flashpoint) and surfing. It is a tri fin with the fins forward but more triangle to the tri fin set up(trailing fin is farther from the front two fins than on the "Drift Boards"). He leans forward but does not surf sitting on his heels, so much.

Both styles are functional and fun to watch. Both styles are using larger boards.

It seems to me that the larger boards with the fins forward require the rider to turn off his or her rails while the old "fins back" boards reqiuire one to turn off the tail of the board.

From a spectator's standpoint, to me it seems more appealing to watch someone who leans forward to turn off the rail as opposed to moving the knees up and sitting on one's heals to turn off the rail.

The question is: Should the fin set up be designed for the rider's strength and style or should the rider adapt to the fin set up that the best riders
are riding?

Another question would be: Does someone who chooses to stay with the "fins back" set up need the same size boards as someone who rides a Aussie shape with the "fins forward"?

More questions than answers and remember: "All generalizations are false"!
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Post by skansand »

i didnt know baden was on a 6'6!, i wouldve asked him to trade me in the open final :lol: ......
....
....the key difference between twinzers and reverse quads(from what ive seen) is the center fins(bigger one) were brought closer to the stringer......this makes them ride alot like aussie tris but still have that quad feel in the barrel or high trim...my shoelkopf is 6'1x 21 1/2,verry straight outline w/ lower rocker then my 6'1x23 1/4 blast or my 6'2x23 1/4 flashpoint...but is still much looser.....it seems to share the same bottom contours as the flashpoint minus the spiral vee....

so are OFFBEAT boards handshaped or CAD shaped??..the ones i saw looked like perfect flashpoint copys with a little added volume...

now what i want to know is ,Whats up with those DRift side fins?..they look like raked out twin fins!!..verry deep with low area...is this the key to their "drifting"?
Tide is the master, tide can be a disaster...-Dub side of the Moon
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