the life, death and evolution of the 'toilet tail'

[tomway]

After seeing this board album_showpage.php?pic_id=11781
in the album , I pm'd Docturbo to find out when and where it hailed from.

I really liked the story behind the boards 'evolution' (Doc prefers 'serendipity') and it made me think that there must be lots of kneelos on here who have persued some of their own designs in the face of the trends of the time/locale.



On the 'toilet seat':

The board was designed by my friend (we started surfing and kneeboarding together as kids on the same street) Mark May. We kind of mutually designed the boards over maybe 30 years ago, during our Greenough worshiping time. We started having our board makers shape to our specifications, and we started making a board know as the toilet tail, instead of a fish tail, this looked kind of like a toilet seat.

Well eventually the pointy, and dangerous tails broke off, and we were left with square tails, true story. Then we said to the shaper, make it like that from the beginning. The decks got totally compressed, so we scooped them out, and made kneewells.

On riding:

Extremely positive, it never, ever, ever broke out of a turn. What I would normally do (if not crowded and can get away with this) is take off on the peak, go straight way out, way way out into the flats, then just turn, square, sharp hard turn. It had kind of average speed, then easily on most breaks, just wait until half way up the face, then turn down, boom in the barrel. I typically passed my kneeboarder mate Grahame at least 50% to 500% more barrel per session.

On kneewells:

The kneewells enable me to always, 100% be in exactly the right position on the take off, then its just lean forward or back to fine tune on different maneuvers. (switching over to the Blast has been an incredible challenge) It felt like I was riding on top of something very thick. Plus it took every ounce of self control to get up in the right place, finally it worked by using the Parkes knobby grip, which seems every so much thinner than the normal full Blast deck patch. Seems illogical, but the center of gravity being lowered by the kneewells, seems to have a radical affect on actually riding.

On tails and the shapers:

The square tail does flex some, as you will see if you look at the bottom of the board. By the way I have three of the square tails, two are twins, shaped by Hank Warner of San Diego, but designed and babysat by Mark May, plus an older one. I had one really dog one actually shaped by Rusty, of Canyon, yes the original Rusty, but it is a piece of ….

The square tails are glassed HEAVY, since we learned the strength was more important than light weight. It has some extra stringers on the side.

Cheers for letting me repost this Stephen. Hope I haven't left anything out! See you soon for a surf

Anyone else got a 'toilet seat' in the closet??

[Mark Ramirez]

Hello tomway, I used to surf with Stephen and Mark May from 1976-1982, I think '82 is the year Steve moved to Indonesia. I remember their toilet tail kneeboards really well, because the shape was so different from what everyone else in San Diego were riding then. I remember the tails being totally square off just like his recent photo he's posted, so I think he's been kneeriding that shape for at least 32 years. It defintely made me think outside the box on alot of kneelos doing their own designs of the time and locale. It was a shape that definitely worked for those two friends because they got some insane tube rides and waves at Horseshoes and Hospitals. Just like Steve quoted to you, they did these bottom turns that would go way, way out into the flats, then just a square hard turn into a gaping barrel. It was one of the preattiest things I've seen.

[Doc Turbo]

After seeing this board album_showpage.php?pic_id=11781
in the album , I pm'd Docturbo to find out when and where it hailed from.

I really liked the story behind the boards 'evolution' (Doc prefers 'serendipity') and it made me think that there must be lots of kneelos on here who have persued some of their own designs in the face of the trends of the time/locale.



On the 'toilet seat':

The board was designed by my friend (we started surfing and kneeboarding together as kids on the same street) Mark May. We kind of mutually designed the boards over maybe 30 years ago, during our Greenough worshiping time. We started having our board makers shape to our specifications, and we started making a board know as the toilet tail, instead of a fish tail, this looked kind of like a toilet seat.

Well eventually the pointy, and dangerous tails broke off, and we were left with square tails, true story. Then we said to the shaper, make it like that from the beginning. The decks got totally compressed, so we scooped them out, and made kneewells.

On riding:

Extremely positive, it never, ever, ever broke out of a turn. What I would normally do (if not crowded and can get away with this) is take off on the peak, go straight way out, way way out into the flats, then just turn, square, sharp hard turn. It had kind of average speed, then easily on most breaks, just wait until half way up the face, then turn down, boom in the barrel. I typically passed my kneeboarder mate Grahame at least 50% to 500% more barrel per session.

On kneewells:

The kneewells enable me to always, 100% be in exactly the right position on the take off, then its just lean forward or back to fine tune on different maneuvers. (switching over to the Blast has been an incredible challenge) It felt like I was riding on top of something very thick. Plus it took every ounce of self control to get up in the right place, finally it worked by using the Parkes knobby grip, which seems every so much thinner than the normal full Blast deck patch. Seems illogical, but the center of gravity being lowered by the kneewells, seems to have a radical affect on actually riding.

On tails and the shapers:

The square tail does flex some, as you will see if you look at the bottom of the board. By the way I have three of the square tails, two are twins, shaped by Hank Warner of San Diego, but designed and babysat by Mark May, plus an older one. I had one really dog one actually shaped by Rusty, of Canyon, yes the original Rusty, but it is a piece of ….

The square tails are glassed HEAVY, since we learned the strength was more important than light weight. It has some extra stringers on the side.

Cheers for letting me repost this Stephen. Hope I haven't left anything out! See you soon for a surf

Anyone else got a 'toilet seat' in the closet??

by the way, the only way anyone would shape a toilet tail, or a square tail is if Mark May would kind of force them into it. The Canyon Board and other boards are junk not because of the shaper, but our design specifcations were way off, especially with the triple red woodstringer, and triple 6 glass job (bottom only) I think I still got this board somewhere, should put it into my storage room. Any how the boards are great, but the limitations are something like the limits we have on spoons, harder to paddle, no real gliding, etc. so in less crowded sucky waves, its a fantastic fun shape. Couple questions: Anyone remember an older guy maybe from Santa Cruz who rode a kind of a spoon with flex tail, kneewells. Mark and I bumpped into him at LJ Shores, Scripps Pier when we were about 17 years old, saw the board, and I think that influenced Mark. The flex board guy said he knew greenough, the board was red, white, he was maybe 30 years old at the time?? Also does anyone think the design of the board gives a tendency towards where it is ridden on the wave. The Square Tail, very thin hard rails seems to ride way at the base of wave. The Blast rides much much higher. Geno, any input? Where is Mark May, said he rode this board in Tahiti some years back He would remember all this better.

[gene west]

yo yo yo Steve-Yeah, like Mark Rameriz, I remember Steve and Mark May rippin' those boards @ Hospital's and Shoe when we had a really tight local scene...we owned and controlled Those two shredded on those boards. Steve, the old guy your thinkin' of is Dr. Terry Hendricks from Scripps Institute. R.W. talks to him all the time, and I ran into Wade from Diamond Glassing- Marks around and I'll get onfo on him to you asap!!!