Single fin?

Man O' War · Post by **Man O' War** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:42 pm

Flexman,
Chiming in with Don above (to whom we owe the pleasure of these forums), haven't you heard of "Emeritus"? Very coveted in all institutions of higher learning.
As far as your temporary physical setbacks, sounds like you need a temporary change of venue, my friend. Leave the brutal NW. Come over here to kinder, gentler waves and 80 degree water of FL. Just ask fellow ksusa old-guarders like Stephan Michael or Eric Carson how therapeutic it is.
Gotcha in our thoughts during your trials and tribulations...

MW

tumak · Post by **tumak** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:16 pm

THIS is an interesting topic. I'm going to be in the shaping room this week with George Robinson shaping a new balsa board, presently on paper as a twin-fin fish...but I just can't seem to shake the strong urge to make it a single-fin. True Ames has made available a fin for Velzy (one of which I have in an 8'0" egg) which would be awesome on a balsa "Spoonfish." What to do? Oh, woe is me! I really appreciate that pic of the dark single-finned board - INSPIRING! - and I too have that old-school leaning...this board just might end up as a Single-fin...!!!

tumak · Post by **tumak** » Sat May 31, 2003 7:47 pm

Oh yeah, Flexman...thanks for your awesome information and spirit...my ancient blood is bubbling, too! -tumak

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 12:05 pm

tumak · Post by **tumak** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:48 pm

Wow...that thing is out of this world cool.

Bud · Post by **Bud** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 7:40 pm

For those of you oogling over and crowing about those long deep scythe like single fins..........be warned! They are very hazordous. Not only can they disembowel you or slit your throat..........
if you are riding over very shallow rock or coral reef, they can and do connect. Believe me...... it's not fun or pretty!
They also hang up in kelp. I'm speaking from experience.

About weighting and unweighting........

Flexman wrote: Most kneeboarders don`t have the same ability as board surfers do in weighting and unweighting to generate speed and/or control... they simply CAN`T because they`re dead weight on top of boards

Boy are you out of touch!

Go to the Drift Kneeboard website and check out the "annimations" page.
Buy and watch Simon Farrer's The Sparrow Has Landed video.
Look at many of the pictures on these kneeboarding websites.
All are testiment to the FACT that kneeboard surfing isn't limited due to dead weight.
The act of weighting and unweighting is applied in a different way and subtler in general but it is still VERY MUCH an essential and very effective part of progressive kneeboarding.

About modern kneeboards becoming more like modern stand up boards......
The opposite is the case.

I've seen a trend of modern standup boards looking suspiciously like kneeboards over the last 5 years. Short, wide nosed, eggoid shapes, very much like the modern round pin kneeboards, are being utilized by guys like Chris Ward and David Rastovich. I recently saw these guys ripping Back Door Pipe and big Laniakea on these shapes. Original "Lis Fish" type boards have been making a resurgence as well among the standup crowd.
I even build quite a few boards for guys who want to stand up on them.
The trend toward kneeboarders riding short thin pointy nosed standup style boards has not caught on in any significant way.

Modern kneeboard shapes have naturally progressed. They are a blend of the low area streamlined foils of of the 70's California with the wider area blunt nosed Slabs of the 70's Australia.
Modern Kneeboards have evolved and improved far beyond the spoon. As progressive as a spoon kneeboard was in the late 50s and early 60's, it's a dinosaur compared to what kneeboards have been for the last 2 decades and are now. Though general plan shapes are similar with many kneeboards there is a large variety to foil, fin placement and rails. The modern tri-fin kneeboard is less a thruster and more of a twin fin with a stablizer center fin.
Kneeboarding now has a greater variety of great equipment choices that are easier than ever to ride. Much more so than with modern standup surfboards.
Modern Kneeboards are constantly evolving and no one standard or "contemporary" design holds sway over the others.
This is a healthy sign for the sport and a credit to it's small numbered enthusiastic participants.
There is no "imprisonment" in diversification and innovation.

Beeline2.0 · Post by **Beeline2.0** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:56 am

Flexman · Post by **Flexman** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 9:03 am

tumak · Post by **tumak** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 7:45 am

Aloha! ...gotta agree with you, Flexman. Anyone who's spent time standing on a regular surfboard (for me, 37 years this month!) knows about weighting and unweghting and it's obvious power in regular surfing. It seems to me that kneeriding involves something I might call rotational leaning to simulate weighting and unweighting, though I'm sure Bud knows a lot more about it than I do, and he's probably in tune with much more sensitivity than I am, especially since I've just started to look into the kneeriding thing. Bud, my sig, using terms like 'imprisonment' and 'contemporary', is only about breaking through limitations and exploring the possibilities. Through conceptualization and other factors, we often limit ourselves, frustrating our evolution. Some guys, like me, aren't interested in contemporary expression, like the picture you put up there showing a guy (is that you?) getting "huge air." It's just not something my nervous system requires to have a good time...plus, perhaps because I dig the old days, I'd like to feel the feel of those days, and in my day (yikes!) paipo and kneeboard stuff was informed by single-fin surfing, probably 'til about 1970 or so. It's just the place I like to hang out, perhaps for sentimental reasons, or perhaps because I AM a dinosaur! Ha ha ha! Anyway, slowed-down sentimental retro stuff IS one of the possibilities; it's a fair choice...nothing wrong with it. Personally, I think everything everyone is doing is fantastic, no matter how progressive or retro...it all really beats living in a Midwestern cowtown, or being a snowshoe salesman in Yellowknife, Saskatchewan. Everyone...ENJOY THE OCEAN! Oh yeah...Bud, thanks for the advice about the dangers of deep single-fin riding. It's a concern for me too, as our little stretch of East Coast Florida, in central Brevard Co., does have some serious rockage right in the shorepound. Don't think I haven't considered the danger! It's real! Peace to all, tumak

willli · Post by **willli** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:48 am

watch occy or kelly getting low and grabbing rail so they can handle the G's of a full on rail cutback..sure the ability to extend helps them in recovery..the knee parallel stance alows us the same move instantanously, almost without thinking..look at them grab rail on steep drops so they can pull the G's at the bottom..sure the ability to extend prolongs their line..but when was the last time you had to "think" your way through a hard bottom turn on a kneeboard. its all so natural! don't sit on your heels! get out there and charge! put the board on its rails! take some chances! hell i'm in my 50's and i aint lookin to the past..the high performance boards are here and now and i'm in on the fun! the only imprisonment is conformity! i had the 11'6" log all picked out..nice conforming board for a man my age.. but i want more from surfing and kneeboarding delivers!! all this crap about weighting/unweighting and are we "as good" as standups..if that worries you maybe you're on the wrong train.. cause the one i'm on is headin for the pit

tumak · Post by **tumak** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:37 pm

Good post, willli...no worries; go for it! Interesting point about the shortboarders crouching and grabbing rail...my railgrabbing experience is on 10-foot-plus single fin Volan equipment, but I think I see your point. It's the same in regular surfing: those who seek the full-throttle high-performance modality, vis-a-vis those who are traditionalists doing the slide for slide's sake. Whatever turns us on is what's right for us. It's all stoke, bruddah!

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:52 pm

I came from the single fin school and worked on developing a nice, deep flex fin back in the late 1960's. Nothing like driving straight down into the flats then cranking a big 'ol bottom turn and rocketing down the line!

As far as placement goes, there was only one size boxat that time. I wanted more latitude so i took two boxes, cut an end off of each box and then glassed them in line. This was before Fins Unlimited came out with their long box.

I positioned my single fin so it would be in line with just in front of my ankles so I could push really hard, load up energy in the flexy fin and 'twang' - off to the races.

KenM · Post by **KenM** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:29 am

Hey Tumak,
What did you decide to order on the balsa? How old school do you want to go? Surfers Journal vol 7 number 4 has pics of GG's original velo,a solid balsa single fin spoon that he eventually used as a mold for his first flex spoon.A modern incarnation of that might be right up your alley.

tumak · Post by **tumak** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:34 am

Aloha KenM,

It's interesting that you mention that Surfer's Journal article. That's my favorite issue! My new board is close to that balsa spoon Greenough had before the Velo...but it's not as thin! For anyone who's ever seen one of George Robinson's boards, it definitely has that Robinson look. It's about 5'1", with a single fin, as described in the previous post. The box is placed 7" from the tail. I don't know how it rides yet, as I'm supposed to pick it up tomorrow (the 16th of July), and then let it cure a few days...and then we need a suitable swell! Tropical season in FL is just about to fire up, so it shouldn't be too much of a wait. Some reading this post may be sure that the board will be like a living fossil...perhaps it is, but I think I'm really going to love it. I was just over there a while ago as he applied a glass coat on it and IT'S GORGEOUS! I'm a retro-guy, and know that there are facets of board design that could have been employed to make it more radical, sensitive, or whatever. But, what I see in this new board looks plenty radical to me...particularly as I am a conventional surfer according to every definition of the term. The new board is solid Ecuadorian balsa, has some belly, is basically pretty down-railed nonetheless, and has a considerable concave in the entire deck...which to me classifies it technically as a spoon. Perhaps someone out there would disagree with me on a technical basis...I don't know. But, whatever it is, I think it's gonna be a gas to ride! If I can figure out how to post pictures, I'll do so...and then I'll brace myself for the oohs, the ahs, and the groans! Ha ha ha! -tumak

stemple · Post by **stemple** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:21 pm

Tumak,

when you get the board why don't you post a picture. I am curious!!!

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