evolution

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:59 pm

Never gonna happen.

CAN YOU ride one board in all conditions? Sure. I guess.

But why would you want to?!

Best surfers in the world (Simon and Baden and Gavin and Albert and Chayne and Buddy and Kyle and Jaime and Gigs and Kelly and AI and ect ect ect ect) will always have quivers so they can ride boards that best suit conditions.

But they are the elite.

The golf analogy works perfectly... and not just "Driving with a putter."

Tiger and Phil and all the Pros use irons that are referred to as BLADES.
Absolutely impossible for mortals to hit with any success… Most everyday golfers use fat, offset, ‘performance enhancing’ irons.
(Just like there is a percentage of the Kneelo Community who will want a forgiving board, and will use flippers to ease wave catching ability.)

As always, guys with skill blow minds with wicked equipment.
And the rest of us?... We can aspire to be like them or we can be casual surfers. No shame in either.

However, if you can’t ride big long boards, it speaks to your skill level, not the boards. They work unreal. Period.
Best guys in the world dominate on them.
Every video, every Contest, every documented free surf… guys who are longer boards are blowing minds.

Do what you want. Have fun. If that's your trip... to ride one board all year... go get'em. Just realize the “One Short Board Theory” has been dead for 25 years and it ain’t never coming back for those of us who are interested in peak performance.

And until someone produces video to prove otherwise, there really is no reason to get all angry and argue about it.
It's de-evolution.

MALLEE BULL · Post by **MALLEE BULL** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:03 pm

GO RETRO RIDE A SINGLE FIN WITH A BOX.SLID THE FIN BACK WHEN IT GETS BIGGER.SIMPLE

WE DID IT WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER.

Stanley · Post by **Stanley** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:27 pm

Well said Eq,
Could not agree more.

RMcKnee · Post by **RMcKnee** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:55 pm

This thread has a typographically flawed title. It's not about evolution, it's about revolution. As in round and round and round and round and round ...

Each to their own.

crippler · Post by **crippler** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:57 pm

Egkneelo hit the nail on the head mate could`nt agree more the proof is in the performance and thats that.
Malee bull i often ride my favourite single fin and adjust the fin what a buzz the little 5,5 is when there`s a bit of swell running it flys,

Bill F · Post by **Bill F** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:08 pm

Kelly Slater can ride a 5ft 5 quad in 2-12 ft pipe...but he stands up.. a bigger board is easier because1) Can paddle easier2) it's much slower and is designed to have more control.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:09 pm

How I long to be considered elite

red · Post by **red** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:11 pm

Been away sulking after my boards were caled ugly*.

Took a 2" thick, 6'1", 23.5, 3lb epoxy/bamboo round tail for a first surf surf yesterday. Had a ball. Can't wait to go again.

I think back to the days in the 70's when all my boards were 5'8". I'd surf anything on them (I had something to prove in those days to all the abusive standups). Big Bay of Plenty, Cave Rock, J-Bay and some unnamed south coast spots. Great fun. I had a quiver of two (2) boards designed to surf different conditions - small waves, and big waves.

But, hell, I didn't enjoy skipping in the air every time I hit a bump. I didn't enjoy the lack of "legs" when the foam was running me down (Check out Outer Kommetjie and Caryfish Factory for the waves that did it). and the late take-offs could equally turn out to be go downs. But we were all in the same boat - Gigs, Roman, me and a host of other Saffas.

Then Simon came to visit and Gigs accessed his designs (that's a story you have to ask the parties who were involved) and our world changed. Next thing Gigs was killing us in comps and we all wanted a six something.

Brilliant idea and full credit to Chris Crozier (and probebly Fitz in there somewhere, along with a cast of hundreds)- extend the rail line for paddling, projection and all the other benefits; then push the fins forward to loosen up the tail, but spread the fins apart to retain drive (yes, readers, fins further apart give drive, just the same as fins further back do). For the last 20 years (or is it 30?) that's been the primary track of evolution, with all these side ventures to (re)explore past theories.

I for one am happy with this path of evolution. It's allowed me to surf better than I ever thought possible. It's allowed me to paddle with confidence in raging waves, and it given me countless hours of fun. Only now are real theories starting to develop about water flows in surfing (beyond the "hold a teaspoon under the water flow" kind of heuristic) owing to the reproducibility of machine shapes. We can look forward to real advances in the future (See "Waiting for the Great Leap Forward" by Billy Bragg)

Basically all this talk about 5'10" vs 5'11" vs 6'0" is just crap initiated by people who don't make the 1/8" and 1/16"decisions in their boards. The latter are the decisions that count - rocker changes that will make a dog outline work, tail tucks that will make a wide tail able to track, etc. etc.

I wonder if there would be such an obsession with size if all kneeboarders were women?

* But actually I just laughed. I like my boards. They work for me and I have a ball. What more can anyone ask for?

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:58 am

red wrote:Took a 2" thick, 6'1", 23.5, 3lb epoxy/bamboo round tail for a first surf surf yesterday. Had a ball. Can't wait to go again.

yep I was there
the board is very thin with a scary thin tail
but more tail area than we have seen on Red's boards recently
Red was moving well and making lots of turns on the face
got stuck in the white water a couple of times but had better success than my FAT board did in the white water

All I saw was a BIG smiling face on Red.

eqKneelo · Post by **eqKneelo** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:50 am

CaptKneemo wrote:stand up.

The bodyboarder has spoken.

Smokin Rock · Post by **Smokin Rock** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:56 pm

i had Bud build me a 6.4 F2K for surf above 8 foot Hawaiian and it rode unbelievably smooth. the added length eliminated the teeter-totter feeling on take off, made for earlier entry and added rail to sink on the bottom turn (and every turn) which made for a overall more radial feeling which perfectly matched the need to draw out everything when covering greater distances.
i could have him build me a 5.10 to handle 8' plus surf and it would but with none of the aforementioned benefits.
IMHO (as if i could have a humble opinion

) a board which "fits most" really means a jack of all trades but master of none or maybe a few.
why not have a quiver? i have a absolute grovel board, a 2-4' board which excels in open face manuevers, several 5.10 to 6.0 boards which handle varying degrees of hollowness and a couple of big wave guns which i have absolute faith in when things get especially hairy here. if money were no object i'd have such a huge sh&t-load of boards quiver i'd need a seperate building to house them! but thats just me.......i love kneeboards

but.......i love waves more
surfing is riding waves.....not boards

if i had to choose riding state of the art kneeboards in fun beachbreak or riding a old worn-out bodyboard in flawless G-Land i would pick G-Land every time. luckily i can have a great shaper design awesome boards for my specific dream spots and my beloved home breaks so i get my cake and eat it too. and since i live Hawaii it's damn good cake....theres lots of it and typically we get shitloads of ice cream thrown in there too!
but please....don't do anything just like me.......do what works for you!

dua anjing · Post by **dua anjing** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:05 pm

....... and it given me countless hours of fun......They work for me and I have a ball. What more can anyone ask for?

At the end of the day it's the biggest smile that wins..

MJ · Post by MJ » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:07 pm

I like my boards. They work for me and I have a ball. What more can anyone ask for?

And ripping to boot, from what I've seen, Red.

From a technical perspective I ride 5' 8" because it's all I have, I'd love to have a 5 board quiver and an understanding significant other who could deal with the space used up in the garage. Haven't quite worked it out as yet. Thanks to everyone for there technical hints on why a bigger board is required for bigger waves I will use them to mount a case for additional purchases, perhaps next year.

This year my board budget has been focused on a 5'6" for my daughter which Dave sent down for her on Friday. The two of us hit 1 to 1 1/2 foot Flinders by ourselves on Saturday and we had a ball. She caught 4 straight handers and was buzzing on her first ever stick. Magic.

The next generation, is that evolution??

MALLEE BULL · Post by **MALLEE BULL** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:44 pm

MJ thats what it's about enjoy the stoke.
On board design if every thing was the same it would be a very boring place.What works for this bloke may not work for that one etc.Have a look at Peter Barry's Moutain Dew boards.And some times it just comes down to how you surf.Sound like a scratched record.

kidrock · Post by **kidrock** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:08 pm

quote]The next generation, is that evolution??

[/quote]

the most overlooked point in this thread and on this site.

Sometimes it seems sublime that this site is dominated by "kneelos" in their 40's, 50's and 60's (

) that are constantly attempting to define what is "cutting edge" and what is "relevant" in regards to kneeboarding. What usually is lost in the equation, however, is this:

What are the kids, the next true generation, riding? What do they think is relevant in their surfing world?

Unfortunately, it's difficult to predict...because there are very few of them out there. We, as a community, have not done enough to influence the new vanguard to gravitate them to this media. The ridiculous majority of current kneeboarders are the ones in the age/maturity group listed above, and seem to be more concerned about spitting over equipment and furthering the "sport" by creating contests that often go unviewed by the people they portend to be attempting to reach the most.

As an analogy, it's like old, retired professional baseball players, who, past their primes but still wanting to savor the taste of their past glory days, join a Senior softball league and get into arguments about the new wave of Cryogenic bats.

Lame.

In this manner, kneeboarding will probably relegate itself to obscurity again in the next several years, due to the fact that not enough kids were there to pick up the ball. Sound familiar? RW had it right

Personally, I think a 6' board is good for a 6' person. I wouldn't put a 5'2, 110 pound kid on a 6'2" X 24" board...and I don't think most elite shapers would, either.

As a young fledgling kneeboarder, my friends and I would whomp in the shorebreak near the quirky reefs and watch serious hellmen like Bird, Gene West, Marshall, Rex et al. They ripped the gnarliest breaks in town, rode the coolest equipment, held the break down with an iron fist, and scared the crap out of us as kids. We loved it and we respected it. For just those reasons, another small clique of future kneeboarders were born.

You wanna talk about "evolution"?

THAT, my friends, is evolution.

How did we lose our way?

Kneeboard Surfing USA Community Forum

evolution

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