TWIN FINS
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TWIN FINS
its flat, its been flat and its gunna be flat
its winter so this is a major piss off. Ive just had two weeks of school holidays and only scored 50 minutes of off shore 2ft waves until the change hit and the only swell for three weeks on the surf coast of Victoria was then blown out.
swell died and the wind turned back to off shore
sSoooo...
....been visiting surf shops as therapy!
Strapper surfboards are owned and managed by Michael Discasio. Champion kneelo and shaper of untold numbers of kneelos, longboards and short boards.
Michael apparently holds to the philosophy that kneelos dont need or cant engage a centre fin (thruster, trailer etc).
This guy is a good surfer and very experienced shaper. Most Strapper kneelos are twins.
Any comments on his twin fin kneelo theory?
its winter so this is a major piss off. Ive just had two weeks of school holidays and only scored 50 minutes of off shore 2ft waves until the change hit and the only swell for three weeks on the surf coast of Victoria was then blown out.
swell died and the wind turned back to off shore
sSoooo...
....been visiting surf shops as therapy!
Strapper surfboards are owned and managed by Michael Discasio. Champion kneelo and shaper of untold numbers of kneelos, longboards and short boards.
Michael apparently holds to the philosophy that kneelos dont need or cant engage a centre fin (thruster, trailer etc).
This guy is a good surfer and very experienced shaper. Most Strapper kneelos are twins.
Any comments on his twin fin kneelo theory?
i like surfing
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- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
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- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:46 pm
- Location: Mornington Peninsula Vic Au
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Hi Jdc,
First of all why haven't you taken drives down to Johanna i bet its been 3 to 6 ft on those small days and going off?...
Mike De is a hot champion surfer an owner of many victorian state contest placing trophys and I reckon he probably makes the best twin fin kb.
And he likes the feeling of the twinneys the same as meat head *(Gavin Lewis from the Island) and one of Australia's best kb riders that no longer competes Phill Chadwick all very acomplished surfers.
I myself personally enjoy the way 3 fin boards turn of the bottom of waves at high speeds, and yes to me the back fin dose come in to play on the bottom turn in to the tilt faze.
Go through the photos of the top riders and have a look at where there fins are hanging in the water.
Over the last eight yrs the majority of surfers winning the Vic state titals and club comps have been riding thrusters and also 3 out of the four finalists at the world titals are on 3 fin boards.
It all comes down to what you like to feel in your boards... You can always lend a twinny from someone and compare it to the boards you are riding.
Its always hard to change between boards because you tend to ride off different parts of the rails of boards with different fin configurations...
Hopfully you'll get a big swell soon to hit the Bells bowl and Winki
Cheers
First of all why haven't you taken drives down to Johanna i bet its been 3 to 6 ft on those small days and going off?...
Mike De is a hot champion surfer an owner of many victorian state contest placing trophys and I reckon he probably makes the best twin fin kb.
And he likes the feeling of the twinneys the same as meat head *(Gavin Lewis from the Island) and one of Australia's best kb riders that no longer competes Phill Chadwick all very acomplished surfers.
I myself personally enjoy the way 3 fin boards turn of the bottom of waves at high speeds, and yes to me the back fin dose come in to play on the bottom turn in to the tilt faze.
Go through the photos of the top riders and have a look at where there fins are hanging in the water.
Over the last eight yrs the majority of surfers winning the Vic state titals and club comps have been riding thrusters and also 3 out of the four finalists at the world titals are on 3 fin boards.
It all comes down to what you like to feel in your boards... You can always lend a twinny from someone and compare it to the boards you are riding.
Its always hard to change between boards because you tend to ride off different parts of the rails of boards with different fin configurations...
Hopfully you'll get a big swell soon to hit the Bells bowl and Winki
Cheers
yep eric, im hoping for some interest!
Stanley, apparently even down south is missing out on the swells. The kids keep the search close to home too. What we need is a surfers tunnel between Lonsdale and Portsea.
my interest is fairly academic at this time as Im very much into fins foward as well as there being more than two but i was in the shop and there were two on the rack so i checked em out.
In general many of the strapper kneelos do not seem to know about this site and never seem that interested in discussion.
Stanley, apparently even down south is missing out on the swells. The kids keep the search close to home too. What we need is a surfers tunnel between Lonsdale and Portsea.
my interest is fairly academic at this time as Im very much into fins foward as well as there being more than two but i was in the shop and there were two on the rack so i checked em out.
In general many of the strapper kneelos do not seem to know about this site and never seem that interested in discussion.
i like surfing
- RMcKnee
- Legend (Contribution King!)
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- Location: Gold Coast Australia
Mr Kurtz comes to town.
Brother, have you thought about selling the kids on Ebay? Threefold benefit; some flat day fun, some gas money for that Johanna trip, plus you'll be able to stay for the late session! It's a better idea than that surfers tunnel. Just imagine the congestion on the beach!jdc wrote:The kids keep the search close to home too. What we need is a surfers tunnel between Lonsdale and Portsea.
The problem with discussion is that you have to take account of other peoples' points of view. For better or worserer, here's mine.jdc also wrote:In general many ... do not seem to know about this site and never seem that interested in discussion.
I started surfing on craft that had no fins. These were super-buoyant, super-loose and super-fun. Eventually I wanted to conquer some bigger waves though, and that required a bit of control, some directional stability at speed. To achieve that, I added a single plywood fin. Fantastic; speed, control, turns. I stuck with one fin for ages and ages, playing around with the size, shape and positioning of it to my hearts content. Changing fin position allowed me to make my board looser or stiffer, depending on my mood. Rail turns were the go, and side-slipping; I love a board that surfs loose, even if it does spin out occasionally. Stoked for years. Then one day I found myself riding a board with four fins. This had a completely different feeling. This had heaps more speed, more drive and control through turns, yet felt looser and way more responsive than any single fin I'd come across. It still had the side-slippy feel when put on rail, but without the occasional loss of bite that plagued the single fin boards.
Some time later I tried twin fins and found them similar to the quads, but heaps looser and lacking in drive. They became sketchy under pressure (on those full-on rail turns off the bottom usually) and spun out if pushed too hard. I never had that trouble with a quad.
I surfed three fins a couple of times, but never really got into them. There's a completely new way of riding that needs to be used on tri-fins, and it just wasn't me. The way I ride, a tri-fin feels like it has a sea-anchor attached. Just not my cup of tea, I'm afraid. I know plenty of really excellent surfers swear by tris, but I'm a crusty old fart now and far too set in my ways to think about change. All that said, I do have a 6'2" pintail gun that has three fins and on the rare occasions I manage to get that out in good-sized waves it goes like a dream. But that's another story ...
The point of all this is that different boards feel different to ride. Each has its own set of ideal conditions and its own set of limitations. Try as much variety as you feel you need to make an informed decision about what to ride and under which conditions, and then get out there and have as much fun as you can. The really ironic thing about it all is that I don't think I've ever had as much fun as I did in the first five years of my surfing life, when it was all coming at me out of the blue, all new, fresh and exciting. The thing then of course was that I knew nothing and was having the time of my life experiencing everything for the first time; far too much fun to actually think about anything. Oh to have that sense of wonder again! Sadly, I think quite a few of us are a little like those crew who find one thing that works and then stick to it at all costs, even if that means having to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world.
Maybe that Mike Discasio could speak to Simon Farrer about engaging that centre fin. He doesn't seem to have any trouble ...
"Well it beats all I ever seen."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JMosm-O ... re=related
http://legless.tv/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JMosm-O ... re=related
http://legless.tv/
Re: Mr Kurtz comes to town.
Mike may well have already has spoken to Simon ... and about many things.RMcKnee wrote:Maybe that Mike Discasio could speak to Simon Farrer about engaging that centre fin. He doesn't seem to have any trouble ...
and I'm sure Mike is well aware of fin configurations and shapes boards of all varieties, not just twin fin kneeboards.
Sure Mike does usually surf a Twin Knee and I think has for a very long time. Works for him.
I don't know what he likes when he surfs stand-up but he probably has many choices and does surf'em all.
Last I heard , mFox has a new Strapper Twin and loves it
that's relevant only cos Mark is usually on a Flashie Tri
jdc
go visit Mike and have a chat, he will make a thruster if you want, or a quad.
my very first kneeboard was a twin Strapper and it did influence my style and boards for the next decade. Now I seem to be on Tri's.
It could all just be what you are or get used to.
... one day in the distant future ... I do plan to see Mike and get a very wide square tailed twin for very small days
- albert
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Re: TWIN FINS
I think this statement in itself needs a bit more clarification. Mainly in the question of whether they 'need' or 'cant' engage that centre fin, and what exactly is meant by 'engaging' that centre fin.jdc wrote:
Michael apparently holds to the philosophy that kneelos dont need or cant engage a centre fin (thruster, trailer etc)
In general, I am of the opinion that maybe we dont always need to have the centre fin(s) 'engaged' at all times, but some of us 'want' it to be there to 'engage' sometimes, whenever the conditions require it.
I have been trying to get my hands on an affordable strapper twinny to try out for a long time, mainly just to see what they ride like. Sadly as mentioned by others on this site, most riders of strappers dont visit this site and hence it becomes quite hard to get a second hand or old beater that fits my general dimensions from someone. I have spoken to Mike, sadly he didnt have anything in my price range and general dimensions.
Re: TWIN FINS
Albertalbert wrote:I think this statement in itself needs a bit more clarification. Mainly in the question of whether they 'need' or 'cant' engage that centre fin, and what exactly is meant by 'engaging' that centre fin.jdc wrote:
Michael apparently holds to the philosophy that kneelos dont need or cant engage a centre fin (thruster, trailer etc)
In general, I am of the opinion that maybe we dont always need to have the centre fin(s) 'engaged' at all times, but some of us 'want' it to be there to 'engage' sometimes, whenever the conditions require it.
your second paragraph touches on what I ment and what I thought Mike D ment and what I was interested in having comments on. Griz's experience is also what I feel about twins apart from what I percieve as their lack of drive sans a middle fin.
To broaden the discussion Im not sure id spend up big on a custom from a shaper whose own surfing ideas didnt equate to mine. Like Albert it would be interesting to find low cost version to experiment on.
For me, to spend the bigger money on a great used or a custom, the full trust would need to be there. That said its interesting to read others ideas.
cheers
PS: Mcknee...but then there is the MRS
i like surfing
Started on singles in the 70s
then started riding twins for a few years,
Even copied Steve Artis "twin fin sting wing pin" from a surfing world article on him. Have great photo of me on it from 1980 at Avalon in WA, in my album on this site
My twins didnt slide or spin and well once on a thruster it had drive and power that the twins didnt match.
However I would like to ride one again to confirm or dispel drive and power theory.
I have always liked Strapper kneeboards and have also wanted to have a go on them. Mike's design hasnt changed for years.........if it aint broke.
I know Mike surfs Winki heaps (when it breaks, us poor Vicco's have been wave and swell starved of late) so I am presuming they do really well down the line style.
Had one 4 fin but the fins I used were the High velocity airplane tail fins and I didnt try it with proper fins
then started riding twins for a few years,
Even copied Steve Artis "twin fin sting wing pin" from a surfing world article on him. Have great photo of me on it from 1980 at Avalon in WA, in my album on this site
My twins didnt slide or spin and well once on a thruster it had drive and power that the twins didnt match.
However I would like to ride one again to confirm or dispel drive and power theory.
I have always liked Strapper kneeboards and have also wanted to have a go on them. Mike's design hasnt changed for years.........if it aint broke.
I know Mike surfs Winki heaps (when it breaks, us poor Vicco's have been wave and swell starved of late) so I am presuming they do really well down the line style.
Had one 4 fin but the fins I used were the High velocity airplane tail fins and I didnt try it with proper fins
yepbudgie wrote: Mike's design hasnt changed for years.........if it aint broke.
when I look back at the pictures of my first board ... scoop decked Strapper ... it looks as cool as it did when I bought it and doesn't seem old
It's true that Mike doesn't have a great/big range of board sizes in the shop ready to go.
errr
I don't know if that is telling us something or not.
One day I will get Mike to make me one in my size .... but I'll need a few more working hours than I am getting at the moment
but one day
... calling mFox !!
tell us about your new-ish Strapper Twin Fin !!
- RMcKnee
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hot twins
Unlike you Budgie, and probably many other older kneeboarders, I started on single fins, went to 4 fins, and only later went back to look at twins and tris. My shaper, I believe, doesn't accept that a three finned kneeboard surfs in the same way as a stand up thruster, hence my weird terminology. The theory goes that on a KB you're driving the board from forward of the fins, while a SU thruster is driven by the back foot, directly over the fin cluster. The 'forward of fins' driving position of the kneeboarder thus forces proper engagement of the inside rail through turns. The spinning out problem with twinnies is maybe related to this; failing to lock that inside rail, or perhaps rails that are less than perfect, etc. I still think that all kneeboarders need to really engage the rail properly in order to make any board work to its full potential. Looking at PC's surfing from the 70's you can really see how much he relied on rail engagement as well as that big centre fin, and also how much he could slide his boards around, (and still be in control), especially coming off the bottom. Maybe my love of that side-slippy feel comes from the same thing; the slide as the board goes over, while the tail is being planted down in the water so that the hard rails aft of the fin can arrest the slide by finally biting and holding tight through the rest of the turn. An interesting sidenote to this is that almost all the SU guys surfing fish that I hear saying that they're no good in bigger waves tend to surf quite flat, never engaging rail through turns at all. By contrast, all the surfers, KB and SU, I see surfing twinnie fish well, lay very committed lines through turns and have no trouble getting near vertical when they want.
"Well it beats all I ever seen."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JMosm-O ... re=related
http://legless.tv/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JMosm-O ... re=related
http://legless.tv/
- weirdo
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
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- Location: Narra , OZ
Posted a pic of my favourite twinny in Boards section:
album_showpage.php?pic_id=21432
You cant see from that pic but the side fins are quite huge and dont have alot of rake in them. It dont slide out at all.
album_showpage.php?pic_id=21432
You cant see from that pic but the side fins are quite huge and dont have alot of rake in them. It dont slide out at all.
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- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:48 pm
- Location: South East QLD
I remember going to the Friar Tuck factory in Brookvale to purchase a new board ... at the time I was riding a Crozier single fin flex tail ... what I wanted to order was a double flier pin with an eighteen inch fin box ... after talking at length with one of the Ware brothers about the the dynamics of twin fins on kneeboards ... I ended up with a single flier rounded diamond tail twin fin ... like the ones on DP's web site ... it was a fantastic board but in hindsight it did lack a bit of drive through sections ... after that Peter Daniels made me a double flier area pin channel bottom tri-fin ... now that was fast ... eighteen years later and I'm riding a Parkes swallow tail quad ... and it is fast ... have just ordered an area pin tri-fin with extra fcs plugs for the quad fin option ... this board will enable me to surf with a number of fin setups ... comparing twinnies and Tri's and for that matter single fins is never going to end in agreement ... for example a Mark Richards twin fin will perform totally different to a DVS fish ... even though both by definition are twin fins and good boards ... the bonzer is a single fin with two other fins ... and therefor by definition a three finned board ... ah can you hear that sound ... thats that worm can being opened ... when Big Simon invented the "Thruster" he took a twinnie and placed a trailing fin on it ... he wanted his boards to respond like MR's but also wanted ... for want of a better word ... stability ... he got the stability ... he also ended up with more drive ... whilst tri-fins have their issues ... they are by far the most successful surfboard design in history ... single fins draw beautiful lines ... bonzers have amazing acceleration out of turns ... the keel fin fish is one of the "funnest" boards to ride ... the "thruster" is to this day still the board ridden by the worlds top surfers ... having said that ... you have just got to love a good twinnie ... before I get driven from pillar to post on this ... the aforementioned design argument is drawn predominantly from stand-up boards ... and therefor my not transfer directly to kneeboard design ... but the hydrodynamics don't change ... the fin placement does ... and therein lies the problem ... its not just the number of fins that affect a surfboards performance ... outline ... rocker ... bottom contour ... volume ... and the surfer all contribute to the outcome ... horses for courses ... variety is the spice of life ... come in spinner.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand.
While imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.
Albert Einstein ... Yeah Bert.
For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand.
While imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.
Albert Einstein ... Yeah Bert.