Wide Point

stevea · Post by **stevea** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:55 pm

Where have you been putting it have you played with it what response did you feel
Ive played around with it a bit well i still am, would be interested to know what people think is it set in stone or as variable as any other aspect of design

jdc · Post by **jdc** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:17 am

your talking about kneeboards....yes

albert · Post by **albert** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:31 pm

stevea wrote:Where have you been putting it have you played with it what response did you feel
Ive played around with it a bit well i still am, would be interested to know what people think is it set in stone or as variable as any other aspect of design

Bud · Post by **Bud** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:06 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA1bm0_ra1g

But seriously..............

Variable like any other aspect of a boards design.

Adjusted for board design, desired effect, rider, fun.

austo · Post by **austo** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:11 am

At a recent gathering of kneelos wilst looking at a Ponsford shape, a coment was made that the wide point was quite set back of center, the owners response was why have width at the front of the board?...It got me thinking too

Griz might want to chime in here

red · Post by **red** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:59 pm

Steve,
Wide point on all my mid range boards (2'-8' surf) are at centre. Found this better for continual bottom to top surfing. Far better than the 1"-2" WP forward boards I used to ride. No problems at fast breaks like Ulus.

I get the projection effect by carrying volume forward. Took a while to get the deckline right so there were no wobbles in the deck.

So, where WP forward boards encourage head down/ass up attitude, I have thickest rails forward to encourage the same behaviour without the overprojection we see in WP forward boards.

Stay safe,
Red

tomway · Post by **tomway** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:32 pm

Hi Red, so your thickest point is forward of your wide point? Does this carry through the foil to the rails or only at the stringer? Cheers!

Kev · Post by **Kev** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:30 am

I think Red was talking rail thickness and shape

the main distribution of foam on Red's board might come from how the Deck and Bottom curves interrelate
but
Red's new board is quite different from what I am used to seeing from him
thin with scary thin tail .. and very light

harder to make a fat rail on a very thin board

Riq dekneelo · Post by **Riq dekneelo** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:23 pm

Hey Steve,
I've been riding the widest point inline with my knees, works for me on a fish.
Cheers, Riq

Not being one for a quiver....

but the only other boards I've got are a classic slab widest point about 18" back or so & previous variations on the fish currently being ridden that i've stashed in tassie so I don't have to carry if I get down there sort term.

red · Post by **red** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:11 pm

Tomway,
Correct. The thicker part of my board extends beyond the wide point and rocker low point (which are coincident). My boards are same thickness over about half their length (on rocker).

My rails are thickest ahead of wide point. I believe this achieves faster and more controllable rail foiling for full rail turns.

My new board is the same. It is just 1/4" thinner all over, so rails max at 1" thick (at 1" from edge) and are 1/4" in the tail. Different design philosophy to what's mostly on offer in the KB world.

ss54 · Post by **ss54** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:19 pm

Having only ridden spoons all my surfing life(since '69),& seeing as all types of spoons,either Velo or Edgeboards are Hulls,the wide point is always Forward of centre.In my boards,the rule of thumb has been:Wide Point 4" forward of Centre.Because of the variable tail rocker(due to the flex),it equates to harder the turn,the more rocker I put into the board.So, my aim is to have plenty of rail in the water,for smooth,projected on-rail turns.
While there is plenty of rail in the water,there's plenty of release,due to the "strakes"(edges of centre panel in edgeboards).
I guess all the above principles have no relevance to "foam Kneeboards",just shows some of the "left field" theories of Spoon design

tomway · Post by **tomway** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:56 pm

red wrote:Tomway,
My boards are same thickness over about half their length (on rocker).

Wow

red wrote: My rails are thickest ahead of wide point. I believe this achieves faster and more controllable rail foiling for full rail turns.

My new board is the same. It is just 1/4" thinner all over, so rails max at 1" thick (at 1" from edge) and are 1/4" in the tail. Different design philosophy to what's mostly on offer in the KB world.

Thanks Red, your take is really interesting stuff. If you don't mind me probing a bit more: on the composite boards you've been doing with peripheral stringers, have you been laying the stringers in at 1"?

Are you coming to Indo again this year? Would be good to see some of your boards.

Cheers

red · Post by **red** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:30 pm

SS54,
The spoon is derived from 70's designs. Wide point forward was a characteristic of all 70's boards. But if you want a 5'2" board to surf 8' waves you need to push WP forward a bit.

Tomway,
I've stopped using peripheral stringers - the boards were ending up a bit stiff and they're certainly not needed for strength. I used to place them 100mm in (~2 inches). This was an arbitrary decision. If you use corecell or balsa for the rails, then 1" wide rails are more reasonable.

No Indo for me. Wife vetoed Indo last night. Wants "somewhere new" like Vietnam or Thailand.

stevea · Post by **stevea** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:02 am

Contrary to poular opinion and under the inevitable influence of Geoff Mc Coy i experimented with wide point several inches behind centre during the mid 80 s
The enhanced performance was immediately felt not just by myself but a team of riders whose contest results and allround performance vindicated Mc Coys theories
It was not all positive though the planshape wasnt all that pretty,in an effort to make them more commercially appealing the wide point inched forward ,it now sits an inch or 2 behind centre
Around this time i played with the capsule concept volume maxed out behind the knees with bottom vee or contour ,nose area and volume was radically reduced an S deck i guess resulted
Without going to every other design aspect ,fins to complement the change in direction were wider based deeper more upright ,hand laid and flexed in top third rear fin or fins much less area and flex
Why ramble on the past cause" the past is the key to the future" as the enlightened know so many aspect of design continue to be recycled for those surfers out there wishing to experiment with aspects of design that i know works just might want to give it a try ,do the evolution baby

stevea · Post by **stevea** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:04 am

Contrary to poular opinion and under the inevitable influence of Geoff Mc Coy i experimented with wide point several inches behind centre during the mid 80 s
The enhanced performance was immediately felt not just by myself but a team of riders whose contest results and allround performance vindicated Mc Coys theories
It was not all positive though the planshape wasnt all that pretty,in an effort to make them more commercially appealing the wide point inched forward ,it now sits an inch or 2 behind centre
Around this time i played with the capsule concept volume maxed out behind the knees with bottom vee or contour ,nose area and volume was radically reduced an S deck i guess resulted
Without going to every other design aspect ,fins to complement the change in direction were wider based deeper more upright ,hand laid and flexed in top third rear fin or fins much less area and flex
Why ramble on the past cause" the past is the key to the future" as the enlightened know so many aspect of design continue to be recycled for those surfers out there wishing to experiment with aspects of design that i know works just might want to give it a try ,do the evolution baby

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