epoxy boards

[micko]

mmmmmm I see your schwartz has grown Luke

[ss54]

Gottta hand it to ya AB,sure know how to kill a thread. . .

while I realise you contract out your glassing,now. . .

A somewhat more "in the now"response,may have been of more

help/interest,to the crew that took the time to read the thread,

Or have I missed the purpose of this "Design" thread?

[analbirth]

ss, fkd if i know, have you

[red]

I'm hearing that vac bagging innegra is not the way to go. It's designed for hand layup so it fluffs up. Lam strength is a function of its thickness, so having layers further apart is good (why it's better to lam separate layers, too).
I learnt at my expense: 12oz minimum cloth on rails - I just creased my favorite ride that only has 8oz on the rails.

[ss54]

Red,
From what we've found,& been told,Innegra is not intended as the sole
reinforcement.

We've layed up multiple test pieces with carbon,& the spoon build will

probably end up as 1 x 6oz Carbon core(both sides)
then1 x 2oz Innegra (both sides)
1 x 6oz Carbon (both sides)

Thats for an edgeboard flexspoon build,(90kgs-up to 8ft + surf)

M.O.W has some Innegra/"E" glass combo cloth he's trialling in a new spoon,

It would be really interesting to have Colan weave up a carbon/innegra

combo,in the 1 cloth,more possibilities than just "E" glass,IMV

[red]

Absolutely - innegra intended as part of a sandwich.
Since you're already sanding carbon I guess the extra hassle sanding plastic (innegra) won't phase you.

What epoxy are you using for lams?
I'm struggling to find a good one that goes off in under 8 hours.

Now summer's here it's less of a problem (the epoxy kicks a bit better)

I think the suncure solarez epoxy might help laminators a lot (if it works without yellowing, etc.)

[ss54]

Red,
That set-up re the flexspoon build wasn't entirely complete,
As you asked,about sanding of either product-Carbon & Innegra,
We intend to cover both sides with 4oz "S" glass,to assist with the sanding,
Tuning/Sanding the tail/rails of a carbon spoon would have to be the WORLDS
WORSE job in board construction-bare none!
The rail reinforcements will be much more precise( in the past,full strips from in front of the kneeling area,about 3"-75mm wide,then all the way to the tail,usually 3 layers)
The new board will have staggered strips,with none going all the way to the tail-less sanding,I hope
Intend to use the Innegra & "S" glass for both the spine build-up & rail reinforcements,as I've found in the past,that using 6-8 layers of carbon,
makes the tail(fin area,& 2ft further forward), too stiff

[ss54]

Red,
In regards to the epoxy,at present I'm using the R300,from FGI
It has a 4-1 ratio,low viscosity,& costs about $88 for the 5 litre pack
FGI also do a R180,intended more of a general purpose epoxy,& I suspect,would be quite suitable for "normal surfboard" construction.Costs about $60 for the 5 litre pack.Again,a 4-1 ratio.
The R300 is claimed to be a much more "ADVANCED" product,have a better,harder flex & a lot easier to work with-which in my experience,is TRUE.
The big advantage of R300, as I see it,working with Innegra,is its low viscosity,allowing for a thorough wet-out of Innegra,which can be an issue, if
assumed it wets out as easy as "E",or "S" glass.

[analbirth]

Red i was talking to a glasser on the goldy this morning who has used innegra on a fair few boards, he loves it, using 2oz innegra and 2oz f/g top and bottom for his super light pro boards with no depressions and for std boards 4/2 deck 2/2 bottom whereas with straight glass he was using min of 18oz f/g under the heel pad for the pro boards . I also asked him about sanding when he gets to his 240 rub he wet sands it , plenty of water is the trick so it doesn't burn and it's thirsty as well at least 15 -20% more than glass.

[red]

Thanks for the resin.
I use the 180 with surfset, but it's not ideal. Quicker set time would be better (ran the vac pump for 24 hours in winter with a heater in the room).
Hoping for Resin Research or something proven for surfboards.

Innegra is meant to be lammed really dry - using a hard squeegee. Then e or s on top for sandwich/sanding benefits. The top lam fills any pinholes in the innegra. Well that's the theory I've heard. Won't know until I much with it.

I heard the finer grit for sanding innegra, but not the water. Thanks.

PS a tip I got is to lam up flat/moulded innegra sheets, then cut em to shape and use them as laminates. Good if you're not doing a full rail lap and are bagging.

[ss54]

Red,
I'm wondering what hardener you'r using.I always use the "Standard",but FGI have quite a few,fast,quick,standard,slow etc.If you go to FGI's web-site,it has all the guff under the Epoxy menu.
Another question Red,do you put a "sealer" on the foam before you lay-up?
I ALWAYS do,& as we're laying down 4 layers of cloth in 1 go-C/I/C/"S",the use of the vac bag,will go ahead(BUT on a low vac setting!)
Because of the edges,concaves,etc,of the bottom shape,together with ridding any pin holes & drawing excess resin out of the laminate,I can't see way I'd not lightly bag the board,BUT a totally saturated lay-up is VITAL,first off.
The "sealer" stops the foam absorbing resin-creating a lighter finished board,& thus only having to concern yourself with a thorough wet-out of the 4 layers of cloth.

[Tom Linn]

Sam- Eric Schoelkoff makes an excellent epoxy board. Barry and I both have epoxies from Eric. Price is the same as a tradional board. Mine is pretty bullet proof and super light.

[frankfqr]

REAL good stuff guys!!! . I'm looking at epoxy for my next homebuild and theirs alot of info floating around. This thread helps narrow things down. Innegre sounds like the sh't. For Epoxy, I'm gleening thru tidbits I can find and leaning toward ResinX. Feedback that I see is it's increased flexability. Touted as a drawback is it's fast set-off time which being used to poly shouldn't be a problem. As for the blank I'm going polyU on that mainly because theirs no learning curve. PM's to both red and AB (i think those 2) and they both have the benefit of access and knowledge of machine shapeing with minor hand tuning. Man I just don't want to go there. SS, as for US sources of carbon fibre I have seen 6oz. satin weave, 50 inch wide rolls. Most likely internationally accessable, money will get you any thing .

[red]

Red,
I'm wondering what hardener you'r using.I always use the "Standard",but FGI have quite a few,fast,quick,standard,slow etc.If you go to FGI's web-site,it has all the guff under the Epoxy menu.

FGI Surfset alleges short gel time. It's epoxy - depends on room temp, humidity, type of mixing cup and position of the stars. It can also get blisteringly hot, which makes fitting of fin inserts into EPS interesting.
But Stump "The Professor" has been shaping and laminating a long time and it's he that tells me the FGI stuff does not do the job as well as other stuff li,ke the one Midget sells or some of the stuff out of China. I need brandnames to source them.
If you're in the U.S. then Resin Research is THE stuff, but you are a bit spoilt for choice with Greenlight et al.

Red,do you put a "sealer" on the foam before you lay-up

Yes I use plaster sealer. The jury is still out on this. Looking for something that adds a bit of strength (like a laquer shell). With EPS the strength is in the shell, not the core, so blank/lam bond doesn't mean that much (yes, I'm aware of delams, so take the statement with a pinch of salt)

Vac seems a good idea to fit subtle bottome curves. How many inches Hg are you planning on running the vac?

[ss54]

Red,
I was really surprised with your choice of Sealer-Plaster?
I use an Epoxy/Q Cell mix,just adding more Q-cells to get a similar consistancy to a "plaster mix"
I'm wondering if your hassles with the Surfset Epoxy isn't being caused by your choice of sealer??But,then again,I'd steer clear of Surfset in the 1st place,I'm guessing the initial attraction may have been the fact you can use a poly filler resin over it??
Or was there some other reason for you to try it??
As for the vac setting,Marty Littlewood,(Delta Designs,Margaret River)was & is,
kind enough to lend me his vac pump,& I usually set the dial at "3 o'clock",& for the use of Innegra & Carbon + "S",will start off with a setting of about "4.30",(if that makes any sense)
Sorry,I can't give you a more precise vac pressure setting than that,at this point