New member with questions

Robbyson · Post by **Robbyson** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:32 pm

Hey everyone,

I just found and joined this group and need to ask a few questions about modern kneeboard shaping. For health reasons I have been out of the water for FAR too long, actually I'm disabled now with major back problems and cannot (stand up) surf. I used to knee board back throughout most of the 70's. I transitioned over to shaping in the 80's and now want to try my hand at knee boards for my own use.
From what I can gather, modern boards seem to range between 5'8" to 6'2" and 21" to 23 1/2" wide. My question is, where is the wide point on these boards. I would assume that they are ahead of the center point as opposed to behind on surfboards. I also want to go quad as opposed to tri-fin (my last kneeboard was a 5'8" Bonzer 360) and the fin placement baffles me. Is there some hard fast rule on quad
fin placement (measured from the rail line in OR from the stringer outwards), can't, toe in (obvously based on the width of the fins base width).

I know that's a lot to ask from a brand new member but if I am to return to the line up, kneeboarding is my only option.
Thanks and best regards,
Robbyson
PS. I am 6'0" tall and weigh in at around 190lbs (about 10 of that is metal in my back)

Post by **Moderator** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:03 pm

Robbyson,

Welcome to KSUSA! You'll find a WIDE range of opinions on the questions you just asked, and I'm sure the crowd will chiming in anytime now.

A good place to start would be the 'kneeboard design' forum, there are many threads in there that contain a wealth of knowledge and wide-ranging opinions on the subject of kneeboard design generally, and subjects like fin placement specifically.

The 'Boards' photo album also displays a wide range of current designs.

Robbyson · Post by **Robbyson** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:44 am

Thanks for the quick reply. If I hit the water by this spring it will be after a 15 year absence on a surfboard and closer to 33 since on a knee board last. Obviously the direction is light years ahead but I will be starting off slowly at various beach breaks around San Diego and occasionally at Sunset Cliffs in swells up to 5'. Anymore than that and I could risk serious injury to an already roached lower back.
Again, what would be the most helpful to me is the location of the wide point and fin placement for a quad setup. I think I've got a good handle on the rest (I am 6' tall and weigh 190) so I was planning on doing a 5'10" x 22 1/2" x 2 5/8 with a tail design that I use on a couple surfboards I've already shaped (I have digital images if you'd like to see them).

I also started a "Backyard Shapers" yahoo group if anyones interested.

Thanks again and I hope to get more input from everyone.
Regards,
Robbyson

fooj · Post by **fooj** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:33 pm

Here's some threads for starters:

viewtopic.php?t=4447&highlight=fin+placement

viewtopic.php?t=4042&highlight=fin+placement

Here's a hot one:

viewtopic.php?t=606&start=0&postdays=0& ... +placement

viewtopic.php?t=3088&highlight=fin+placement

albert · Post by **albert** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:33 pm

Robbyson wrote:Thanks for the quick reply. If I hit the water by this spring it will be after a 15 year absence on a surfboard and closer to 33 since on a knee board last. Obviously the direction is light years ahead but I will be starting off slowly at various beach breaks around San Diego and occasionally at Sunset Cliffs in swells up to 5'. Anymore than that and I could risk serious injury to an already roached lower back.
Again, what would be the most helpful to me is the location of the wide point and fin placement for a quad setup. I think I've got a good handle on the rest (I am 6' tall and weigh 190) so I was planning on doing a 5'10" x 22 1/2" x 2 5/8 with a tail design that I use on a couple surfboards I've already shaped (I have digital images if you'd like to see them).

I also started a "Backyard Shapers" yahoo group if anyones interested.

Thanks again and I hope to get more input from everyone.
Regards,
Robbyson

Start with the wide point in the middle. I dont know about quad fin placement, but I am sure someone else can help with that.

kidrock · Post by **kidrock** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:21 pm

Visit "The Green Room" in front of the lifeguard tower in OB. Rich "Toby" Pavel has some fantastic quads in his showroom, and his shapes are a good gauge of where to start.

kidrock · Post by **kidrock** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:43 pm

Another suggestion:

check out the Steve Seebold quad being sold by TSenn in the Boards album. Looks like a darn nice shape.

Seebold comes recommended by some well-respected SD kneeboarders.

red · Post by **red** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:39 pm

Wide point, rocker low point varies according to shaper. The general trend seems to be:
Small waves - wide behind centre
Big waves wide ahead of centre

The common mistake of standup shapers is in making the tail too thick. Kneeboarders can't apply much back foot pressure and are "heavy front foot" surfers, so modern designs assume weight forward of knees a lot of time. This might be challenging if your lower back is dodgy.

KenM · Post by **KenM** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:15 pm

[quote="red"

The common mistake of standup shapers is in making the tail too thick. [/quote] Spot on Red.

Smokin Rock · Post by **Smokin Rock** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:04 am

i agree completely on the correct tail thickness. i got a big wave board in the works with Bud which is based after a 6'4" F2K he made me for G-Land.
the board and especially the tail are thinner than than i would ever want to go and i admit i was kinda skeptical at first.
combined with the heavier glass job i always get, it has a controlled feeling in the barrel that is really nice and in big conditions it just flys. the super thin (to me) tail is the one thing that really makes the board drive and hold.
the reduced volume also makes for a monster duck diver

BTW the next board is 6'5" and to stir the pot i won't ride those little boards in real surf anymore. lots of guys rip on them and i applaud them but i think the "super sized" F2K just feels like a real board.
there.....i said it.....let the sh&tstorm begin!

careful Capt.

randiego · Post by **randiego** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:56 am

I believe the phrase 'Horses for Courses' would apply here.

Mike - I'd like to see that board. Got any pics, including the tail?

southpeakbrad · Post by **southpeakbrad** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:16 pm

SR I understand and despite my poor overall understanding of shapes I agree with you. You know what feels right (thickness) and can incorporate that into the next one. One question is, have you tried an ~5'10" F2K with appropriate thickness in serious surf?

Smokin Rock · Post by **Smokin Rock** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:07 pm

first i should say that a quite a bit of this is height/weight proportionate.
im 6' 210lbs. i had (snapped) a 6' fish hybrid which was my old big wave board. great board and could handle any size or power surf but on big windy peaks the takeoff felt teeter-tottery (is that a word)

and chop at high speed was deadly. i was talking to Baden on the North Shore and he really kind of got spewing when he talked about riding longer boards. made me think.
ive got a 5'10" F2K which is the bomb.

great board but when it starts pushin a certain size i just really prefer the gunnier board.
ill look for pics
album_showpage.php?pic_id=23730
album_showpage.php?pic_id=23730&mode=next#TopPic
album_showpage.php?full=true&pic_id=23732

red · Post by **red** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:15 pm

I have an unfinished 7'0" in the shed.
Problem is - once it's finished I'll have no excuse left for not paddling out when it's a bit sizey!

Don't knock kneeboard guns unless you've tried one. As Mike says, the confidence that comes from having a gun is worth its weight in gold.

Smokin Rock · Post by **Smokin Rock** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:24 pm

i think Barry has gone the opposite route though.....i heard all his boards were 3" thick

even for big stuff. he rides bulls for fun so it somehow makes sense.