Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

What works & what doesn't and in what type of conditions. Got a "secret" only you and your shaper know???? Post it here... we can keep it quiet ;-)

Moderator: Moderator

Post Reply
hankj
Local (More than 25 post)
Local (More than 25 post)
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:54 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by hankj »

I'm talking about boards like the Lost Puddlejumper, CI Average Joe, Firewire Sweet Potato? All of these boards in the 5'10 to 6'0 range about 22-22.5" wide, hold considerable volume, have rail dimensions, concave and rocker profiles that are very kneeboard-like. Anyone tried one out? If not, hypothetically are there reasons you couldn't buy one of the these off the rack, slap a cove pad on it, and go tear it up like on purpose-built kneeboard? Is fin placement a problem?

I'm just really curious, happy with my shaper but think it would be fun to see if one of these things could be captured from the surfing world and made my kneeboard-slave. The Puddlejumper comes in the Libtech technology, which is absurdly light and strong, way way lighter than any kneeboard I've every had ...

Sweet Potato Vid - this board is 22.5 wide in the 5'10, floaty as f--- 47 liters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8E6GGJA4Y
hankj
Local (More than 25 post)
Local (More than 25 post)
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:54 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by hankj »

Been poking around at this subject a little. Generally I'm completely oblivious to surfboard design, so this is probably old news to most of you, but man there are a lot of "newly invented" short-wide "groveler" boards out there that look a lot like kneeboards, at least my kneeboards. This one here, at least as far as outline goes, is basically indistinguishable from the shapes in my quiver - it looks almost exactly the same, 22.5 wide in the 5'10:

Image

Deep single concave under the chest that runs back to double sounds pretty familiar, though it has a little V at the very end of the tail which I don't favor. Even fin position is quite close.

Apparently the first one of these mass produced "modern" types of short, wide, low rocker, concave boards was a Firewire. Have they, or anyone else, given credit to kneeboard shapers for inventing this format? Surfers since the beginning of time (in my case the early 1980's when I started kneeriding a lot) have had zero interest in my boards. In the past several years though I regularly hear random surfers say "that thing looks like it might be fun to surf."

Probably theses boards aren't foiled out enough to really perform as kneeboards? Thicker areas of foam in the wrong places? Still considering ordering/finding on CL one of these "surfboards" and (just for giggles, not to betray the tribe) seeing how it goes as a kneeboard ....
Last edited by hankj on Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Lefty
Local (More than 25 post)
Local (More than 25 post)
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:34 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by Lefty »

they are super flat rockered grovellers suited for 2 ft waves, with the rider jamming on the back foot a fair bit. might be ok in 2 ft waves, but i imagine they'd be utter crap as a kneeboard in decent waves. however, you never know till you give it a go. king waka has vidoes of him been riding one of those small softies as a knneboard.

however, the worst part would be that you are riding an off the rack mass produced, made in china board. about as edifying as being caught with a comatose junky prostitute by your wife and mum and dad in law.

it's not the first time that kneeboards and standups have followed a similar line.....just as the fish kneebaord was taken up by standups in california, so too the slab kneeboard shape was taken up by standups on the east coast of australia. have a look at the board michael peterson is riding in morning of the earth.
it's a long way to the shop if you want a sausage roll
User avatar
southpeakbrad
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 872
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:42 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by southpeakbrad »

Hey Hank,
The one thing that stands out to me is that the fins are set so far back it would probably be difficult to turn, and when it did turn it would probably feel really weird and not nearly as fluid as you would hope for.
Bradford
hankj
Local (More than 25 post)
Local (More than 25 post)
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:54 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by hankj »

Lefty wrote:they are super flat rockered grovellers suited for 2 ft waves, with the rider jamming on the back foot a fair bit. might be ok in 2 ft waves, but i imagine they'd be utter crap as a kneeboard in decent waves. however, you never know till you give it a go. king waka has vidoes of him been riding one of those small softies as a kneeboard.
This subject of rocker is interesting to me - I wonder what the rocker numbers are in these mass market grovelers? It's a stat that usually isn't listed but you could argue makes more of a difference than anything in how the board will surf. I wonder if they're not way off of my current boards. My current boards are:

1) 3.25" nose, 1" tail - this one surfs great in clean point breaks but you need to mind the straight down reentries.

2) 4.5" nose, 1.25 tail - similar rocker overall but a little more flip at nose. Rarely pearls but can, most recently was fairly epic slammer at a hollow cobblestone rivermouth, maybe 3 or 4 feet OH, when I decided near the bottom of my angled drop to release out into a deeper bottom turn to set up the first tube section instead of blazing for the one down the line. Was really glad for the hood because the side of the head slap was hard enough to break an eardrum.

3) New board - 5" nose, 2" tail - again concentrated to the tips but a little more through out. My hope is that it doesn't push water but can get straight up and down in tight pockets.

Maybe I'll dork out (more than usual) and bring a straightedge down to the local surf shop and measure some of these grovelers and see. You're definitely right about the caught with a tranny hooker aspect of these machine made boards - look I was just curious is probably not a great excuse :)
gogglefog
Ripper (more than 100 posts)
Ripper (more than 100 posts)
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: san diego

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by gogglefog »

hankj
Local (More than 25 post)
Local (More than 25 post)
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:54 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by hankj »

Thanks - now see that I'm innovating from behind. :oops:

A glowing endorsement for the machine built groveller ... gonna have to give it a go, one of the ones you can "custom" tweak, Channel Islands Average Joe or JS Show Pony

Probably tweak width up to 23 in 5'10 or 5'11, if they can move the fin cluster up 1.5-2 inches and compress it by 1 inch it's a deal. Thickness ... these things are so thick stock, probably go down to 2 5/8s which might keep the rails from being too fat. If the CI then might go Libtech "glass" as these are VERY light and strong reportedly don't ding - they invite you to try and squeeze the rail too hard in the shop.

More than anything I'm interested to see what it's like to surf a board that's that light - my shaper is awesome, has access to lighter than regular blanks, s-cloth, normal resins. We build what won't break too easily with those materials. But I'll never get to try out super-light w/o trying newer technology that he can't do. Don't feel great about it but gotta see for myself ...

Won't be for a while though, gotta let the current new board settle into the synapses, also get a little distance between that and the next long number on the credit card ... but will post a photo when it's done.
User avatar
K-man
Legend (Contribution King!)
Legend (Contribution King!)
Posts: 1461
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:35 pm
Location: north of san francisco

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by K-man »

Rode a few in the 5-8/10 by 23 wide.Nice boards shaped by verner real flat in the tail.Very fast..but a beech to turn with the fins on the tail.And the noses are round,which I don't like.I'll stick with fins forward.
User avatar
thebagman
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 3:43 am
Location: North SD County CA

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by thebagman »

The Sweet Potato with fins moved up sounds tempting, I surf with Firewire Rep's Wife in SD North County. I'll have to check with her about possibilities.
Here's a video by her husband a few years ago on the Sweet Potato.
Aloha,
Mike
Sunset Cliffs Kneeboarder 1970's
Steve Lis Apprentice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYnauR065CQ
Plastics Technology Graduate 1974
Sunset Cliffs Kneeboarder 1970's
Steve Lis Apprentice
User avatar
thebagman
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Grom (25 or less posts to site)
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 3:43 am
Location: North SD County CA

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by thebagman »

Hey Kneelers, I Saw Chuy Reyna from firewire at the board room show this weekend. We talked about the sweet potato and fin setup options. He said that because fin locations are CNC routered, they cant change the fin locations very easily. I guess the only option would be to order the board without finboxes and install them yourself which is not that hard to do if you have a good router.
Plastics Technology Graduate 1974
Sunset Cliffs Kneeboarder 1970's
Steve Lis Apprentice
knee-rider
Local (More than 25 post)
Local (More than 25 post)
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: overseas

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by knee-rider »

Hello Everyone
I am about to experiment with a Firewire 6'4" 58 litres board
I now surf in the Mediterranean sea and would like to get Sandgroper advice, as well as all of the other members that contributed to this subject on this forum.

I would like to know at what measurements should I try and place my new FCS fin cups for the side fins-- I will be converting this big "floaty" board from a quad to a thruster configuration. Where should I try to place a standard US central fin box-- (This will allow for the center fin to be moved up and down for fine tuning the board)
Please specify distance from back/tail of board and from rails-- also what "rake"
Looking forward to all your suggestions
it's all about the ride
knee-rider
Local (More than 25 post)
Local (More than 25 post)
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: overseas

Re: Anybody tried kneeriding the mass market short/wide surfboards?

Post by knee-rider »

thank God Brad took some time to reply to my private e-mail and gave me some suggestions

I am going with my center fin placement at a whooping 11 inches from the back
Man I hope I am not overdoing this
But i noticed that I generally ride pretty far up on my boards-- maybe a mistake??

I'll keep y'all posted once the job is completed and I get a chance to ride the firewire second hand board I bought for the experiment
dave
it's all about the ride
Post Reply