Development of Longer Kneeboard Designs in Australia
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:43 pm
..
--sorry couldn't resist too many beersKneeboard Surfing USA Community Forum
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Development of Longer Kneeboard Designs in Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:53 pm
maybe about the time they stopped wearing fins and started birdman(contest) style --sorry couldn't resist too many beers
--sorry couldn't resist too many beersLength
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:16 pm
Beeline,
Not sure if it is a "fix"..but it sure is an observaton/opinion.
Peter did initiate the 'fin-forward' design. It is so unusual to hear people talk about 'fin-forward' stuff, because I have never known anything different. The trailing edge of our slab single fins hovered around the 17" mark..just as it does on our thrusters today..albeit the rail fins though instead of the centre.
The slab design however was dependent on really straight bottom and deck lines for speed because as all 'single fin principle' boards, the performance came from the shape..and not the fin(s).
Enter of course Simon Ando and we all saw what happened when we experimented with multi-fin arrangements.
Perhaps most pertainent to your question however is a guy called Greg Webber and how he reintroduced the concave, showed us what you can and can't do with curve (bottom, deck and outline) and combined it with a thruster fin set-up and boom!
I don't believe any other shaper came close to Webber in the early 90's..everyone was watching what he shaped and what his boards were doing in the water. Webber generated speed and drive with curve..quite the opposite of 70's thinking about straight rockers and planshapes.
Now, a decade later, we have lessened rockers and concaves..but the lessons learnt are still with us. You can have length with manoeuvreability if you have curve..and concave..and 3 fins.
Slabs however, were left behind cause they were too straight to go long.
Personally, I have never liked thick, chunky kneeboards. They don't enter and the surfer always seems to sit on top of the water.
Additionally, I am a kind of big guy..certainly not small and spindley.
I don't wear flippers and have always been very aware of paddle-entry and bottoms that get to planing speed very quickly.
I took what Webber showed the surfing world and combined it with a touch of Simon Anderson and heaps of Crawford. In 1994 I booked advertising space in "Waves Magazine Buyers' Guide" and used a pic of one of my personal boards..it was 6'2" long x 23 1/2" wide.
I knew that David Parkes, Wayne Hutch (Kneeon) and Peter Daniel (Division) would also have kneeboards pictured and I intentionally wanted something published that would show something totally different to the other shapers involved.
From memory, no other kneeboard pictured was longer than 5' 8".
If nothing else, kneeboarders were shown that you can go longer if you choose..and my first ever order to the US some 4 years later had the guy post me a pic of that board out of the mag (thanks George!).
So the advert..and the board, worked
hart.
PS
Sorry for the long post
Not sure if it is a "fix"..but it sure is an observaton/opinion.
Peter did initiate the 'fin-forward' design. It is so unusual to hear people talk about 'fin-forward' stuff, because I have never known anything different. The trailing edge of our slab single fins hovered around the 17" mark..just as it does on our thrusters today..albeit the rail fins though instead of the centre.
The slab design however was dependent on really straight bottom and deck lines for speed because as all 'single fin principle' boards, the performance came from the shape..and not the fin(s).
Enter of course Simon Ando and we all saw what happened when we experimented with multi-fin arrangements.
Perhaps most pertainent to your question however is a guy called Greg Webber and how he reintroduced the concave, showed us what you can and can't do with curve (bottom, deck and outline) and combined it with a thruster fin set-up and boom!
I don't believe any other shaper came close to Webber in the early 90's..everyone was watching what he shaped and what his boards were doing in the water. Webber generated speed and drive with curve..quite the opposite of 70's thinking about straight rockers and planshapes.
Now, a decade later, we have lessened rockers and concaves..but the lessons learnt are still with us. You can have length with manoeuvreability if you have curve..and concave..and 3 fins.
Slabs however, were left behind cause they were too straight to go long.
Personally, I have never liked thick, chunky kneeboards. They don't enter and the surfer always seems to sit on top of the water.
Additionally, I am a kind of big guy..certainly not small and spindley.
I don't wear flippers and have always been very aware of paddle-entry and bottoms that get to planing speed very quickly.
I took what Webber showed the surfing world and combined it with a touch of Simon Anderson and heaps of Crawford. In 1994 I booked advertising space in "Waves Magazine Buyers' Guide" and used a pic of one of my personal boards..it was 6'2" long x 23 1/2" wide.
I knew that David Parkes, Wayne Hutch (Kneeon) and Peter Daniel (Division) would also have kneeboards pictured and I intentionally wanted something published that would show something totally different to the other shapers involved.
From memory, no other kneeboard pictured was longer than 5' 8".
If nothing else, kneeboarders were shown that you can go longer if you choose..and my first ever order to the US some 4 years later had the guy post me a pic of that board out of the mag (thanks George!).
So the advert..and the board, worked
hart.
PS
Sorry for the long post
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:59 pm
..
Length again
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:28 pm
Beeline,
1. Contest oriented surfers first or last?
99% of my work is NOT contest oriented. Traditionally the guys who ride my boards do not have a 'contest-style'. That said, it was therefore the market and not the contest guys that accepted the push for more rail-line length and more curve.
2. Timewise?
I can't speak for all..in fact I can't even say if other shapers have accepted that longer is better. I still see a lot of short, blocky kneeboards with flat decks. None-the-less, the majority of Sydney guys were surfing 5' 10" to 6' 0" as their 'allrounders' my the mid 90's. Almost a decade ago now.
3. Rider(s)?
I have only been shaping for Simon Farrer exclusively since 1998 so prior to that my contest surfers had Simon as their 'nemises'. Simon came from Albert Whiteman's shaping that was quite full volumed.....and.....flat. I intentionally used curve and length and rocker to create boards that were different to what Simon was riding to try and give my contest surfers the edge. Had to give them something that was unique and different to overcome Simon's natural ability.
So from my point of view I would say Damien Gaynon (PC protege from DY) who beat Simon man-on-man in 1992 and Gavin Colman (Cronulla) who had his first Open win against Simon in 1993. Those wins allowed me to move forward with greater confidence than before.
Gavin once asked me to shape a 7' 6" for him to be photographed on the biggest wave ever to be captured of a kneeboarder. He's got the board..but I'm still waiting for the pic.
hart.
PS
Dont forget that all guys like Simon, Kyle and Matt (and Baden..and..) all have long boards (like seven-oh's)..but they also have their shorties. So out of 4 or 5 boards each..they could range from 5' 8" and up.
1. Contest oriented surfers first or last?
99% of my work is NOT contest oriented. Traditionally the guys who ride my boards do not have a 'contest-style'. That said, it was therefore the market and not the contest guys that accepted the push for more rail-line length and more curve.
2. Timewise?
I can't speak for all..in fact I can't even say if other shapers have accepted that longer is better. I still see a lot of short, blocky kneeboards with flat decks. None-the-less, the majority of Sydney guys were surfing 5' 10" to 6' 0" as their 'allrounders' my the mid 90's. Almost a decade ago now.
3. Rider(s)?
I have only been shaping for Simon Farrer exclusively since 1998 so prior to that my contest surfers had Simon as their 'nemises'. Simon came from Albert Whiteman's shaping that was quite full volumed.....and.....flat. I intentionally used curve and length and rocker to create boards that were different to what Simon was riding to try and give my contest surfers the edge. Had to give them something that was unique and different to overcome Simon's natural ability.
So from my point of view I would say Damien Gaynon (PC protege from DY) who beat Simon man-on-man in 1992 and Gavin Colman (Cronulla) who had his first Open win against Simon in 1993. Those wins allowed me to move forward with greater confidence than before.
Gavin once asked me to shape a 7' 6" for him to be photographed on the biggest wave ever to be captured of a kneeboarder. He's got the board..but I'm still waiting for the pic.
hart.
PS
Dont forget that all guys like Simon, Kyle and Matt (and Baden..and..) all have long boards (like seven-oh's)..but they also have their shorties. So out of 4 or 5 boards each..they could range from 5' 8" and up.
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:56 pm
..
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:57 am
Hart
when you going to put together a book - im serious - 500 ksusa members would buy it im sure - it will become a collectors item - or a least surely surfers journal could print a extended article - its great stuff - glad someone came up with a design topic for your posts
good on ya Beeline
dorje
when you going to put together a book - im serious - 500 ksusa members would buy it im sure - it will become a collectors item - or a least surely surfers journal could print a extended article - its great stuff - glad someone came up with a design topic for your posts
good on ya Beeline
dorje
Ted
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:20 am
Ted, now it is me that's had one too many red wines..Ted wrote:
maybe about the time they stopped wearing fins and started birdman(contest) style
You are right about not wearing 'fins'......but I never have so I know no different.
And the 'birdman'?
You're right again mate, not a good look.
But, if you look closely, the birds disappear around 4 foot or so. I so wish some contests could wait until it got bigger. Someday, maybe.
And then sometime rails will count for more..
hart.
PS
dorje, thanks so much.. but this is the internet.
It IS a book for all who choose to read.
Re: Ted
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:55 am
hart wrote:Ted, now it is me that's had one too many red wines..Ted wrote:
maybe about the time they stopped wearing fins and started birdman(contest) style
You are right about not wearing 'fins'......but I never have so I know no different.
And the 'birdman'?
You're right again mate, not a good look.
Right on Hart,
But, if you look closely, the birds disappear around 4 foot or so. I so wish some contests could wait until it got bigger. Someday, maybe.
And then sometime rails will count for more..
hart.
PS
dorje, thanks so much.. but this is the internet.
It IS a book for all who choose to read.
I agree with you Hart on the rail comments and I'm NOT drinking red wine.......yet.
Bud
grapes
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:09 pm
Hey Bud,
Nappa Valley or Barossa?
hart
Nappa Valley or Barossa?
hart
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:36 am
Harty, a nice bottle of Grange or a nice bottle of Caymus special select,you make the call.I,ve got em all.
Better red than dead
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:58 am
Ummm,
Budman, the Grange Hermo will be fine.
Get the cork out to let it breathe..LAX is only 13 hrs away from Kingsford-Smith.
Good to see our American cousins have such good taste in wine..and their choice of surfboard..
And by the way.."What's in a name?..would any other rose smell as..."
Know what I mean?
hart
Budman, the Grange Hermo will be fine.
Get the cork out to let it breathe..LAX is only 13 hrs away from Kingsford-Smith.
Good to see our American cousins have such good taste in wine..and their choice of surfboard..
And by the way.."What's in a name?..would any other rose smell as..."
Know what I mean?
hart
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:23 pm
Hart,anytime my friend,if your ever in So Cal,look me up and we'll surf and sip like rock stars!!!!!
LAX
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:44 pm
Too cool, mate..
And I'll bring some of those bloody OZ longboards with me!!
(guys can't tell they're kneeboards until you take off.. )
That way you at least get out of the Parking Lot.
Take care,
Bruce
And I'll bring some of those bloody OZ longboards with me!!
(guys can't tell they're kneeboards until you take off..
)That way you at least get out of the Parking Lot.
Take care,
Bruce
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:31 am
Anyone
I am making myself a 6' x 17 x 231/2"x 17 pintail thruster any suggestions on fin position? my current board is a 5' 9" chris diploc thruster. How does the extra length affect the fin position? I know it's a complicated subject but are there any guidelines to start me off?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Mark
I am making myself a 6' x 17 x 231/2"x 17 pintail thruster any suggestions on fin position? my current board is a 5' 9" chris diploc thruster. How does the extra length affect the fin position? I know it's a complicated subject but are there any guidelines to start me off?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Mark