What's everyones thoughts on computer shapes?
Seems like a good idea to me, being able to reproduce a good board again and again. Though I don't know much about shaping so I wouldn't know the downsides of computer shaping.
Computer Shapes
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Nov
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Computer Shapes
2101
its a lazy world
be careful
a master shaper toying with it seems ok
but what about future apprentices? will the art of eye and feel and tools be lost to a mouse? click, click, click
a print of a painting is never ever going to replace an original and a human flaw can often be beautiful - surfing is not formula one technical perfection
i hope
dorje
ps: the old guy in the recent surfers journal (pc's last days) with pics of his workshop, boards and tools is a treasure
be careful
a master shaper toying with it seems ok
but what about future apprentices? will the art of eye and feel and tools be lost to a mouse? click, click, click
a print of a painting is never ever going to replace an original and a human flaw can often be beautiful - surfing is not formula one technical perfection
i hope
dorje
ps: the old guy in the recent surfers journal (pc's last days) with pics of his workshop, boards and tools is a treasure
merely labled
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K-man
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post
mornin all,
Computer shapes?An interesting phenonoma.the fact is,surfing is growing by leaps and bounds.A very competetive business.The less time it takes to push them out,the lower the cost-Time is money-that's business.
On the other hand the board still has to be hand finished,and that takes a bit of skill.
I don'e see computer shaping as a threat-just a tool. There will always be those individuals who understand the meaning of shaping boards by hand,and of course them's real expensive machines.no?
Where would we be if not for back yard builders,tinkering and fussing about,till they get it right,then if they're lucky someone like bud or hart takes them under the wing,and gives them a push.
Thats how the old guy[''velzey''got his start,and now he's a master craftsman-and a bonafide character!
No... computer shaping will not the undermine the low key,underground
lifestyle of board shaping,and there will always be plenty of hands on people to pass the goods on to the next generation.
And thats my 10 cents worth
cheers
Computer shapes?An interesting phenonoma.the fact is,surfing is growing by leaps and bounds.A very competetive business.The less time it takes to push them out,the lower the cost-Time is money-that's business.
On the other hand the board still has to be hand finished,and that takes a bit of skill.
I don'e see computer shaping as a threat-just a tool. There will always be those individuals who understand the meaning of shaping boards by hand,and of course them's real expensive machines.no?
Where would we be if not for back yard builders,tinkering and fussing about,till they get it right,then if they're lucky someone like bud or hart takes them under the wing,and gives them a push.
Thats how the old guy[''velzey''got his start,and now he's a master craftsman-and a bonafide character!
No... computer shaping will not the undermine the low key,underground
lifestyle of board shaping,and there will always be plenty of hands on people to pass the goods on to the next generation.
And thats my 10 cents worth
cheers
Kyle is currently using computer shaping on all his boards. He adjusts dimensions by a little or a lot and the software compensates. Therin lies the danger. You can spend a lot of money making mistakes if you don't have a good understanding of what your change will do.
Last I read (last week) computer shaping machines were unable to handle concaves, eliminating a large proportion of today's kneeboard shapes.
Last I read (last week) computer shaping machines were unable to handle concaves, eliminating a large proportion of today's kneeboard shapes.
islands surboards from Phillip Island offers you a chance to glimpse the world of computer design for yourself - in its simple form
http://www.islandsurfboards.com.au/main.html
click on boards then follow the directions - they have a kneeboard template!
enjoy or otherwise
dorje
http://www.islandsurfboards.com.au/main.html
click on boards then follow the directions - they have a kneeboard template!
enjoy or otherwise
dorje
merely labled
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surfhorn
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Computer cut shapes work well once you have experimented with (and decided on) a basic form......such as a 6'0" x 24" round pin.
With those design elements entered into the software, each 6'0" x 24" round pin will be identical. A shaper can then experiment with: nose and tail width; thickness; bottom rocker; concave/no concave. All the fine finish work is still a hands on process.
And after more work, you can go back and enter the newest shape.
With those design elements entered into the software, each 6'0" x 24" round pin will be identical. A shaper can then experiment with: nose and tail width; thickness; bottom rocker; concave/no concave. All the fine finish work is still a hands on process.
And after more work, you can go back and enter the newest shape.
kbing since plywood days
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Bud
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I purchased the DSD "Surf Cad" software nearly 2 years ago.
It has proven a very useful tool. (as well as being somewhat frustrating, like learning any complicated computer software
)
Under the tutelage of Eric Arakawa (only to use the software not design kneeboards) I am quickly becoming adept at implementing it's full design potential.
At this time I still hand shape the majority of my orders.
(I just love to shape anyway.
)
The few refined and tested CAD created designs I've done are receiving rave reviews from team riders and selected customers.
The Surf Cad software, coupled with the DSD shaping machine is extremely versatile. (And really fun
)
With it, one can design and cut blanks that have every aspect of a board you can imagine.
The machine will cut the blank exactly as designed.
Bottom curve, top curve, rail volumes, rail shape, concaves, channels, plan shape & their transitions, can be adjusted to within 100th of an inch or fractions of a centimeter.
The system can also be used for mass production, but it's real beauty lies in it's versatility as an individual custom board designers tool.
The myriad of subtleties of the curves that make great boards can be reproduced with the Surf Cad software.
Boards can be scaled up or down retaining every design characteristic. (Say you gained 50 lbs pigging out over Christmas...........Need a bigger version of your old faithful? no problem!
)
Every board can be designed to the shapers desired specifications, including the minute nuances of his personal style.
With a lap top, and removable disks the shaper can be at the cutting site and make changes on the fly....so to speak.
Say you get your design cut and you decide it needs a tiny bit more concave. By taking back your design on disk, you can edit it as needed, replace it into the cutting machine and redo the blank. (As with all shaping you can only subtract foam not add it.)
This takes only a few minutes.
Normal cutting time for a board under 6' 6"" is 20 minutes.
It can take only 20 minutes to finish the cut blank by hand.
In the hands of an experienced shaper this system can produce an infinite variety of board designs.
After very thorough research of the many other great machines on the market, I chose this system due it's superior versatility.
A big plus is the existence of a world wide network of over 40 DSD machines. Nearly all are at the service of a shaper with the software.
Designs can be emailed to a machine's location and blanks can be cut and waiting for the shaper. Or, as in many cases like Eric Arakawa, Pat Rawson, Rusty Preisendorer et. all, the banks can be finished off by trained "ghost shapers".
A shapers designs can be built in places where shipping costs prohibit sales.
The system and network is straight forward.
The machine can swap design files without time consuming set up for each design. Any number of different designs can be cut one after the other.
There are no "cutting file" creation fees. You pay only for the software and each individual cut.
There is no scanning creating hours long machine down time.
The shapers design files are copy protected.
This system is carefully being evolved by it's creator, Luciano Leao, in an ongoing fusion of input of ideas and practical application experience from all the shapers and factories utilizing it.
I would like to see the program have a 3D rendered view of the designs with the ability to zoom in and out as well as turn the design at any angle.
But as it is, it's fully featured enough to produce fantastic results.
As a starting point for aspiring shapers learning to shape via the CAD system might be too daunting a task.
I can't imagine how frustrating (and expensive) it would be to butcher an untold number of blanks before one got a decent working design.
The software is expensive......US$1500!
It costs over US$25 to cut a blank under 6'6". Add the time to design a custom board (equal to doing it manually in the shaping room), and travel time to and from the facility then it's not a real money or time saver. (Unless you are mass producing boards in the thousands.)
It is a real physical labor saver.
Over the long term it is well worth the $.
A talented surfer / shaper with several decades of experience and well developed visuaization powers, will benfit most from this system.
Cutting edge designs for our sport will be created by this, and the feed back from talented riders and with solid, experience surfing a vast, varierty of wave types.
Computer shaping systems are now an established part of the surfboard industry.
We will all benefit from these computer shaping systems as tried and true designs of the past are archived for future generations to enjoy and new designs are developed and refined.
Here's another shapers comments about this system.....
http://www.wetsand.com/resource.asp?ResourceID=2203
It has proven a very useful tool. (as well as being somewhat frustrating, like learning any complicated computer software
)Under the tutelage of Eric Arakawa (only to use the software not design kneeboards) I am quickly becoming adept at implementing it's full design potential.
At this time I still hand shape the majority of my orders.
(I just love to shape anyway.
)The few refined and tested CAD created designs I've done are receiving rave reviews from team riders and selected customers.
The Surf Cad software, coupled with the DSD shaping machine is extremely versatile. (And really fun
)With it, one can design and cut blanks that have every aspect of a board you can imagine.
The machine will cut the blank exactly as designed.
Bottom curve, top curve, rail volumes, rail shape, concaves, channels, plan shape & their transitions, can be adjusted to within 100th of an inch or fractions of a centimeter.
The system can also be used for mass production, but it's real beauty lies in it's versatility as an individual custom board designers tool.
The myriad of subtleties of the curves that make great boards can be reproduced with the Surf Cad software.
Boards can be scaled up or down retaining every design characteristic. (Say you gained 50 lbs pigging out over Christmas...........Need a bigger version of your old faithful? no problem!
)Every board can be designed to the shapers desired specifications, including the minute nuances of his personal style.
With a lap top, and removable disks the shaper can be at the cutting site and make changes on the fly....so to speak.
Say you get your design cut and you decide it needs a tiny bit more concave. By taking back your design on disk, you can edit it as needed, replace it into the cutting machine and redo the blank. (As with all shaping you can only subtract foam not add it.)
This takes only a few minutes.
Normal cutting time for a board under 6' 6"" is 20 minutes.
It can take only 20 minutes to finish the cut blank by hand.
In the hands of an experienced shaper this system can produce an infinite variety of board designs.
After very thorough research of the many other great machines on the market, I chose this system due it's superior versatility.
A big plus is the existence of a world wide network of over 40 DSD machines. Nearly all are at the service of a shaper with the software.
Designs can be emailed to a machine's location and blanks can be cut and waiting for the shaper. Or, as in many cases like Eric Arakawa, Pat Rawson, Rusty Preisendorer et. all, the banks can be finished off by trained "ghost shapers".
A shapers designs can be built in places where shipping costs prohibit sales.
The system and network is straight forward.
The machine can swap design files without time consuming set up for each design. Any number of different designs can be cut one after the other.
There are no "cutting file" creation fees. You pay only for the software and each individual cut.
There is no scanning creating hours long machine down time.
The shapers design files are copy protected.
This system is carefully being evolved by it's creator, Luciano Leao, in an ongoing fusion of input of ideas and practical application experience from all the shapers and factories utilizing it.
I would like to see the program have a 3D rendered view of the designs with the ability to zoom in and out as well as turn the design at any angle.
But as it is, it's fully featured enough to produce fantastic results.
As a starting point for aspiring shapers learning to shape via the CAD system might be too daunting a task.
I can't imagine how frustrating (and expensive) it would be to butcher an untold number of blanks before one got a decent working design.
The software is expensive......US$1500!
It costs over US$25 to cut a blank under 6'6". Add the time to design a custom board (equal to doing it manually in the shaping room), and travel time to and from the facility then it's not a real money or time saver. (Unless you are mass producing boards in the thousands.)
It is a real physical labor saver.
Over the long term it is well worth the $.
A talented surfer / shaper with several decades of experience and well developed visuaization powers, will benfit most from this system.
Cutting edge designs for our sport will be created by this, and the feed back from talented riders and with solid, experience surfing a vast, varierty of wave types.
Computer shaping systems are now an established part of the surfboard industry.
We will all benefit from these computer shaping systems as tried and true designs of the past are archived for future generations to enjoy and new designs are developed and refined.
Here's another shapers comments about this system.....
http://www.wetsand.com/resource.asp?ResourceID=2203
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MWROBERTSON
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Computer
After reading this, it hit me again how Bud really knows his craft! If you ever get a chance, talk to him. His experience and knowledge pool will give you such confidence in your equipment.
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Smokin Rock
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albert
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I just figure it was about time to bring this topic out of the dustbin.
In speaking to David Parkes over the last couple of days regarding this, along with Steen, we found a site where you can design your board for free.
True, it takes a great deal of time (I myself have spent about 8 hours, and all I have is a bumpy outline and the rocker/thickness profile that looks alright).
Apparently, if your shaper has a KKL shaping machine nearby, you can design and submit your shape to be done by the machine, then delivered to you or your shaper. I am very excited about this prospect, there are a few cons though.
If you have a favorite board, you can get it scanned in (for a cost of about 40 bucks), and you can get someone to do desired changes for you (at about 100 bucks an hour or more). It would be nice if one could scan a board in and make the desired changes yourself, however, this is not possible as the draftsperson needs to make a living.
After a couple of conversations with Parkes, he said 'go for it, and lets see what happens' so I am.
You have to register for the use of the software but its free. Once you login, hit file-> new and away you go.
There are a few things I still cant figure out, but Im still working on it.
The good thing is that once you get something on the screen you like, you can tweak it any way you want to and have something really good going, because you can save your designs on the internet. Albeit a huge investment in time and you cant share it with other people.
Another thing regarding this software is that the probability of getting it right the first time is slim to none. but after a couple of tries, it works really good as rumors tell me.
Anyway, its worth having a go at it
http://www.kklmachine.com/prodesigner.aspx
In speaking to David Parkes over the last couple of days regarding this, along with Steen, we found a site where you can design your board for free.
True, it takes a great deal of time (I myself have spent about 8 hours, and all I have is a bumpy outline and the rocker/thickness profile that looks alright).
Apparently, if your shaper has a KKL shaping machine nearby, you can design and submit your shape to be done by the machine, then delivered to you or your shaper. I am very excited about this prospect, there are a few cons though.
If you have a favorite board, you can get it scanned in (for a cost of about 40 bucks), and you can get someone to do desired changes for you (at about 100 bucks an hour or more). It would be nice if one could scan a board in and make the desired changes yourself, however, this is not possible as the draftsperson needs to make a living.
After a couple of conversations with Parkes, he said 'go for it, and lets see what happens' so I am.
You have to register for the use of the software but its free. Once you login, hit file-> new and away you go.
There are a few things I still cant figure out, but Im still working on it.
The good thing is that once you get something on the screen you like, you can tweak it any way you want to and have something really good going, because you can save your designs on the internet. Albeit a huge investment in time and you cant share it with other people.
Another thing regarding this software is that the probability of getting it right the first time is slim to none. but after a couple of tries, it works really good as rumors tell me.
Anyway, its worth having a go at it
http://www.kklmachine.com/prodesigner.aspx