Kneeboarding hazardous to your shoulders?

KneeBumps · Post by **KneeBumps** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:37 am

I have read many posts on shoulder heath in this forum, and I have incorporated much of the xclnt advice on e.g. changing your paddle/stroke, supplements, etc. into my daily surf/swin routines (thnx folks!).

Despite all care taken, I once again find myself with a nagging shoulder problem caused by having caught too much of my left arm and hand in the face of a wave while dragging it to crank a quick, hard turn.

The power of a wave to yank your arm back with xtreme power while traveling at speed should not be underestimated. I can't seem to break this habit, and I suggest for your comment that it is a problem unique to kneeboarding. (I don't know of many standups that really use their hands for much other than light contact with a wave- not sure about boogieboarders, who usually seem to have their arms in tight). I have seen at least two other posts on this problem ( as a cause of shoulder injury) in the forum.

Should we be teaching the groms how not to do this? Is there a right and wrong way to pull a turn (am I just a klutz)? I think using my arm is a crutch- it's easier to stick my arm in the wave than using my balance and hip power. I know there are a lot more problems that surfing presents to us as we age, but it's always good to eliminate the obvious ones....

K-man · Post by **K-man** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:17 am

Sounds familiar.Had major arm problems on/off for years.Had to do with my boards,which were little rockets but with the fins close to the tail; were a bitch to turn.So getting them around required a major arm drag at speed,And the resultant force would yank my shoulder something fierce.
Results...torn ligaments,very painful
And then,of course,went modern.Better shapes,fins further forward,made surfing more pleasurable

,and much less reliance on the arms. Still use the arm,on ocassion,but the process is much more subtle,and these boards respont much quicker,so that solved my problem.
Can't comment on the rest of your post as I/we don't know about your boards or style.

cheers

KneeBumps · Post by **KneeBumps** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:59 am

K-Man,
You make an excellent point. My equipment was a factor (although my new twinzer actually turns beautifully without arm dragging) but habits were born years ago on my old kneeboards, and are still hard to get rid of. Maybe I will learn, as I use the new board more.

AM_Glass · Post by **AM_Glass** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:14 pm

I find that if I grab my outside rail on a turn, even though I've been told not to, I can crank a pretty tight turn. I have done a few arm drag turns but they often result in pain, which for me is a great way to remind myself not to do that. Keep in mind this is all coming from a novice kneeboarder, but a inch or two shift back on your board could make the turns easier to do. Or sit on your heels to initiate your turn, anything to shift your weight further back. I've watched Barry Baker initiate tight turns by leaning back and kicking his legs. It reminds me of what you would do to jump to your feet from a kneeling position without using your hands, only through a mean wave gouging body twist in there.

It also seems to me that a strong muscle is less likely to get injured. Try dry-land shoulder strengthening and maybe you'll have enough strength to actually pull your turns with your arms. At that point you may have trouble getting a wetsuit with big enough shoulders in it but hey, no more pain, right!

KneeBumps · Post by **KneeBumps** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:11 am

Thanks for the tips. I might be past help (old habits die hard), mostly musing on how to teach the children the right and wrong way.
I might add that 45+ years of lap swimming is taking it's toll, but many of the tips in this Forum have helped me straighten and deepen my arm entry, paddling and swimming, and I'm noticing significant improvement the last few weeks.
AMGlass- getting the wetsuit on is actually part of the problem with bum shoulders!
Correct stretching is the key...

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:48 am

All I can say is that I really appreciate the amount of pain that having bad shoulder/shoulders can create. I have been in an out of the doctors, had cortesone injectons, physiotherapists, had mri, ct even a injection of nuclear reactive material for a bone scan.
Hydrotherapy tomorrow, to ease shoulder impingement. Docs. now talking of a solution, an injection/injections to kill the nerve root for ever, could lose 5% of shoulder mobilty but would stop the pain.
I can trace it all back to digging in for hard turns using my arms over many years of kneeboarding in all types of wave, all was fine until age, wear and tear on my back and neck started it all off and the pain was tracking from back to shoulder.
That said I am very positive that all will be sorted kneeboarding has given me too much to ever stop.
PS (I can relate to the poblems of getting a wetsuit on, had many embarrasing times when I have had to ask a passerby to help get my arm in!)

KneeBumps · Post by **KneeBumps** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:32 am

What's "hydrotherapy"? New term for me.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:33 am

I will know more tomorrow I have my appointment at 10am. It is where the physiotherapy treatment is done in water.

''Exercising and treatment in water provides unique support and resistance and allows the physiotherapist to target specific muscle groups effectively.''

That is what the hoptitals blurb says. Will let you know how it goes.

CONTIKI · Post by **CONTIKI** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:20 am

FIRST AND UTMOST...

Hope you all are doing well..

I think you are just dropping in too early.
No need for a bottom turn.

I prefer an ultra late drop in, right under the lip.
Just take a deep breath and hold on!!!

Must be getting old, I forgot what you were talking about...
Arms must be shot from scratching my "HEAD"

KneeBumps · Post by **KneeBumps** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:46 am

Perfect illustration of my point- go to the Santa Cruz 07 Contest photos gallery slide show and look at all the boys dragging their arms deep in waves, cranking turns, etc. Maybe there's a right and wrong way to do this (?), but I suspect many are heading for steroids and high doses of NSAFs...
I think K-Man's comment is best to the point- newer boards with forward placed fins for easier turns would prevent a lot of this.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:31 pm

KneeBumps
Just an update about the 'hydrotherapy' for my damaged shoulder, went this morning seemed really gentle working with the physio, using the water (very warm in the pool) to provide extra resistance making general stretching movements and pulling against the water, about 35-40 minutes.
Two hours or so after the treatment it started to hurt and got worse through the day still very painful can't sleep thanks why I am writing this at 4.30am (in cornwall, uk).
Hope it is doing some good have another session next week, be easier just to go for a surf!
regards, davidg

frankfqr · Post by **frankfqr** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:52 am

My worst shoulder injury occured on my right shoulder going left in a shutdown barrel. Wasn't draggin it or grabbin rail, just the big washin' machine blast, with a huge tweak in the wrong direction. After 1yr. of no improvement, I checked in with my G.P. who dialed me in with a sports injury specialist then phys. therapist. Bottom line was build the muscle mass and work thru the pain, with the help of low grade pain killers (aspirin, ibuprofin, acte...and such) X-rays or M.R.I.'s mandatory.....hope your working on your flexibility as well, you will see results!! Don't slack on any of doc's advice, give the rehab 110%..Good luck..cheers..frank.

KneeBumps · Post by **KneeBumps** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:42 am

Agreed frankfqr, I'm rehabbing now on moderate doses of naproxen (generic Alleve) and light swim workouts, getting much better. DavidG you are talking me out of trying hydrotherapy, but perhaps the pain is due to using new muscle groups (which would build supportive muscle as frankfqr recommended)? Best of luck, let us know how you progress.
Best advice I had was to change my swim and paddle strokes and lap swim with fins, which seems to work the same muscle groups with much less stress- all tips from previous posts on KSUSA-Thanks!

Bumps · Post by **Bumps** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:53 am

The act of surfing. especially when done on the knees, places many stressors on the old bod.

Paddling due to posture can cause issues with the lower back and as shown in the mails above the shoulders. I suffer with both, my back is through a lifting injury on my last day in a hospital based job (over 26 years ago) and flares whenever I forget to continue with my abdominal exercises or allow my self to get too fat. Damn those beers!

Both my shoulders have pain and issues, can't throw a ball these days, but can still paddle, thank goodness.

If you have pain, your bod is telling you there is something wrong. Go and see a Doctor and get referred to a specialist (sports). The best bit of advice given to me by radiologist mates is too avoid back surgery until it's absolutely essential, but get those shoulders fixed!

Catch ya in the room.

Aikibu · Post by **Aikibu** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:13 pm

Old Guy Here... 46 now....The only way I have found to avoid injuries is to lift weight Teach and Practice Aikido and YOGA... If your shoulders are bothering you then focus on specific weight exercise like arm and shoulder lifts with dumbells...Shoulder Pulldowns...Seated rows...and power lifting like snatches or clean and jerks...Core exercises like tons of abdominal work, hip flexors and exercise to strengthen your lower back are also VERY IMPORTANT.

Last time I saw that old pro Gerry Lopez he did an hour of Yoga on the beach before he paddled out. For a standup Surfer the guy still rips!

It's what you do out of the water that greatly determines what happens in the Barrel.

William Hazen