knee injuries???

[DrStrange]

Feel a bit funny posting my mundane concerns in the midst of such life and death traumatic events as posted by Techno but in between my prayers for your wife, here goes...

Been mostly a foot surfer for 30 plus years with some forays into KB land. It has always had an appeal due to low center of gravity and smaller profile both body and board (though these days it seems the boards are mostly a bit bigger. Couple years ago, blew out some knee cartilage snowboarding and had 2 surgeries and long, ugly rehab. Now back on a sponge to get started and contemplating KB as the way to go, the true path of righteousness and glory.

Anyhoo, am a bit concerned about my knee joints. They work pretty well now but I do have a bit of deficit, partly due to sciatic nerve pain as a result of other injuries and partly due to being an old fart (53). So the question is: anyone have any thoughts about the risks of torquing the old knees whilst riding on them? Back about 100 years ago I rode a spoon for awhile (shaped by Richie West of Wilderness and another by Paul Steele of Honolulu). There was a lot of support/security in the dished out deck bracing knees from the sides. What happens when you get blasted by the lip? do you just blow off your board, no worries, or has anyone experienced having your knees and lower legs try to stay connected and your upper legs and torso going sideways? This would not be so good for the ligaments or the cartilage I'm guessing.

So, pardon my paranoia but I'd sure appreciate any feedback, insight, rumors, inuendo, whatever.

[Beeline2.0]

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[DrStrange]

Thank you. I'm in NorCal. Salmon Creek, Dillon Beach, points North... I was mostly concerned with the extra torque potential of being in kneeling position. Standing, you get blasted clear of the board. Kneeling, more contact area hence more friction to twist against. At least that was the paranoid thought.

Way way back, maybe 1968 or even '67, someone (maybe Romanosky) was selling a board meant to be ridden both kneelo and footo. Short, wide, I think maybe had big deck pad but not sure. All I have to say is, "Hmmmmmm..."

[doc]

I wouldn't worry too much about knee damage while wiping out, as you're just gonna get bounced/blasted off the board in a very similar way to how a pedestrian gets bounced off. You might torque it a little if your turning style works that way ( which needs a better explanation than I can give right here - the photo album will give you a better idea ) but that's about it.

Oh, and that combo board, wasn't that the Newport Paipo Shoe? A little later than '67, though, if my memory hasn't failed like everything else...

doc

[Beeline2.0]

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[DrStrange]

Shoe!!! That's it. But not really after double duty board. Just aimlessly speculating while trying to decide which way to go. I guess there's a lot of difference in the dynamics of how much you can weight shift side to side and fore and aft knee vs foot. So the boards would have to be pretty different to work well.

I'm definitely tending toward knees at the moment. Always liked the "cool" body styling potential of stand-up but it has always seemed that the KB folks get deeper for longer and go faster.

Bud's boards appeal to me as I have always liked drivey, big arc surfing. Now for the money...

[doc]

Uhmmmm.....you being out on the Left Coast and all, it'd be awfully tough to borrow one of my boards, but isn't there somebody out there who has one our pal can try?

doc...... gawd, what I spent on Marvel Comics back when they were 25 cents US each.... http://www.drstrange.nl/........

[DrStrange]

Have thought about posting request to try a ride (have fins will travel) but size of boards might be a problem to get any sort of real feel for the deal. I'm only 5'3" and 130 pounds soaking wet. Strange indeed!

(There was a bunch of folks I lived with in Santa Cruz in the '60s who nicknamed me Mini. Also been called Elfman for awhile in San Diego. that was during the period I lived in a kid's playhouse in an avocado orchard for $27 per month rent. Sweet deal. Worked polishing boards for Channin. Surfed everyday and loving it. That was mid 70s I think. Ahh, memory lane...)

[doc]

Have thought about posting request to try a ride (have fins will travel) but size of boards might be a problem to get any sort of real feel for the deal. I'm only 5'3" and 130 pounds soaking wet. Strange indeed!

(There was a bunch of folks I lived with in Santa Cruz in the '60s who nicknamed me Mini. Also been called Elfman for awhile in San Diego. that was during the period I lived in a kid's playhouse in an avocado orchard for $27 per month rent. Sweet deal. Worked polishing boards for Channin. Surfed everyday and loving it. That was mid 70s I think. Ahh, memory lane...)

Ah - so you have the advantage of being able to get further in than most of us. And to use a shorter board. Strange, no. Fortunate, yes.

Hmm...as it seems like boards are getting longer since the 5' and smaller boards you and I are familiar with, something on the shorter and disused end of somebody's quiver would work pretty good for you.

I think mebbe something can be worked out, once everybody gets back from the Santa Cruz event.

( I kinda miss the '60s/'70s. I lived over a garage for a while, then had a little place where you had no choice but to hear the sea in the morning. Caught a lot of fish, fixed boards, didn't need much more than that. )

doc..........

[DrStrange]

Ooooo, those good old days. In Santa Cruz I lived in converted storage area above a garage for $25/month and listened to the fog horn and seals barking at the harbor at night. Lived almost an entire winter on food stamps and rare, part-time work. Draught days so sunny and 4 Mile working almot every day. Often on weekdays only 3 or 4 people out. Surf till cold and bake on the rocks below the cliffs between go outs. SWEET!!!

I just emailed someone who has a used 5'6" (or was is 5'7") for sale on Blast website. Still probably too big. Built for someone a little larger than me.

Hmm...as it seems like boards are getting longer since the 5' and smaller boards you and I are familiar with, something on the shorter and disused end of somebody's quiver would work pretty good for you.

Good idea!

[DarcyM]

Hey Strange -

Both my knees are in bad shape, but not from kneeboarding. I messed 'em up pretty good snow skiing. I can hyperextend both now, and I have to be careful in some of my land based sports so as to not re-injure them. I've got a little arthritis setting in now (the injuries were ten years ago), so I'm often in pain no matter what I'm doing. But kneeboarding has never been a problem, and I've been in some pretty heavy situations. I tried snowboarding once after the injuries, and it was obviously a NO can do sport, way too much torqueing in the front knee just standing there or starting a turn. Going sideways is not a good thing for my knees.

After the worst injury I tried to wear one of my hinged knee braces while in the water, but it felt too weird and was really uncomfortable. By the time I was down to soft neoprene braces I didn't even bother wearing them in the water.

I don't think that I torque very much at all at the knee when riding, even doing sharp manuevers like snaps and re-entries. The knee joint itself tends to stay pretty static, most of the rotation is in the hips and waist. If you get into a bad situation you usually just get blown off the board, even with a greater contact surface, it's not like you're strapped in. Probably there's a potential for re-injury, nothing is completely safe, but I'll bet you won't have any problems kneeboarding.

If you get back down to San Diego, I have some boards you could try as well.

Get off the sponge and give kneeboarding a go ... you may never go back!



darcy

[SFKneelo]

Between my knees, I've torn 5 ligaments. The three in my left knee required surgery in '82. It's still a bit atrophied. That wasn't done kneeriding. The right one was. Here are my tips:
- keep your legs strong and limber
- don't force moves. That's how I did my right knee on a kneeboard. I was trying to force my way out of a tube, went sideways, and ended up torqueing it until it popped. I should have just taken the gas.
- since you're confined to a wetsuit, you can get either/both under-supports or over-supports. Any sports store will have them. Neoprene kneepads. The inner ones I use are sleeves, w/o any hinges/straps/etc.
The outer ones have straps, and simple stabilizers built in. They aren't hinged. This gives a bit more support

Knock on wood (OK, my head) I haven't had any problems with them over the last 12 years or more...

[Don]

Between my knees, I've torn 5 ligaments. The three in my left knee required surgery in '82. It's still a bit atrophied. That wasn't done kneeriding. The right one was. Here are my tips:
- keep your legs strong and limber
- don't force moves. That's how I did my right knee on a kneeboard. I was trying to force my way out of a tube, went sideways, and ended up torqueing it until it popped. I should have just taken the gas.
- since you're confined to a wetsuit, you can get either/both under-supports or over-supports. Any sports store will have them. Neoprene kneepads. The inner ones I use are sleeves, w/o any hinges/straps/etc.
The outer ones have straps, and simple stabilizers built in. They aren't hinged. This gives a bit more support

Knock on wood (OK, my head) I haven't had any problems with them over the last 12 years or more...

Is this your secret to coming in second in the US Champs??? The more straps / velcro / wetsuit the better?

[SFKneelo]

Of all the people to ask!
The strategy is to bore everyone you're surfing with into submission by taking gobs of time to put on all that stuff!
BTW... glad we didn't dawn patrol today. Yesterday was good enough, thank you! Did you make contact with the guy taking pics?

[Jack Beresford]

SF Kneelo,

The kneepads and straps may not help in your heat but they're great for the victory celebration at home (or at least that's what I'm told)!