Tavarua Gathering?

[Scott]

Hey, Ed.

C'mon--you can tell me about those secret spots in French Polynesia. I promise I won't tell the guys I learned it from you. Heck, I even took French in high school. Trust me on this one.

Scott

[scoop]

taverua or any other place that is special...it gives employment to the locals.....OK a few locals did trips to the surf and gave basic suppliesnto the surfers
but at least the resort at tavarua is giving employment to quite a few locals that wouldnt otherwise have a wage comming in.....we can scoff and say it might be paultry wage but its better than nothing at all
i too have been to fiji a few times( my wife since 70 and me since 81)
...albeit i havent buried anyone there but to an australian it is one of the more affordable places to go
I dont care what anyone says ...its far better than bali
i am also not saying that people arnt ripping of the fijians or using standover tactics (like im sure there is in australia and the US as well as is in other places in this world)
i also understand one has to sign waivers to surf there but the way you write brian on the saturday issue id be there early so as not too many others where in front of me as id be comming from plantation,,,not the mainland and hey im a fair age so i wouldnt be there that long....i reacon id be back for lunch...i dont understand all these others ouhers not letting me have a wave cause im taking so long signing waivers
but then again...im a kneelo...imm use to s*&^ being hung on me cause i dont stand up
but hey....from another kneelo ... think itse for a valium my friend

sorry guys...it is late friday night here


cheers all

tony

[kneemor]

Ed,

Thanks for standing up for all the blokes with wives and kids to think about.

[eqKneelo]

Scott.
1) Don't tell anyone in F.P. you speak French...they HATE the French.
2)I'd tell you, because one of the waves is the most perfect right barrel I have ever surfed and I know how you DOMINATE rights......but the other wave is a SUPER HEAVY left that...well...you might get hurt on. I'd hate to see that and know I was responsible.
Send me some footage of you at 10ft Deadmans this winter and maybe I'll change my mind.

[Man O' War]

Note To Bryan:

A saying worth remembering: "What you tell me about them tells me more about you than about them."

We're all angry about something. It's a matter of mixing the anger with mercy, which is what we need too.

Try to let it go...

Mark

[DarcyM]

Mark, EQ, and Tony have made some very good points.

I'd like to add one more.

There's all kinds of exploitation, some of it obvious, some not so. And none of us can count our respective countries (USA, Australia, Great Britain, S. Africa, to name a few represented here) as having been fair in our dealings with indigenous peoples. I don't condone it but I can't change it (just build more casinos, it'll be all right in the end).

That doesn't mean that we should ignore unfairness, but I don't believe that supporting the resort at Tavarua is exploitation. In fact, I'd argue that there is a fair amount of exploitation going on when someone from one of these same rich nations goes to some remote island to live on the cheap for three or six months, rather than staying at home and working like the rest of us poor slobs in order to finance a one or two week escape to paradise.

Consider the luxury of such a venture, and the potential harm and exploitation of the native population. That word "exploitation" may sound a little too harsh, and on the surface a camping surf adventure to some remote tropical island sounds harmless. So some surfer camps on the beach, sleeping in his towel and crapping in a hole dug in the dirt. He eats on the cheap or catches fish or lobster when he doesn't want to buy food. He's proud because he's a true waterman, a self supporting free spirit. He thinks it's ok because he's doing the same thing that the people who were born on this island are doing. Except that he had to get here on an air-conditioned jet plane. He's also being a self-indulgent exploiter who isn't serving anyone on the planet except himself. Maybe he'll write a book. Yet, what native tribe or group benefits from that? So he hires a long boat to ferry him out to the reef pass. So one local guy gets paid in cash, maybe that helps his family but do you think it helps the community? Is it even a fair price, or is he bartering with the boatman in order to find the lowest price he'll accept? Maybe that's better pay than the boatman would get in fishing today, or maybe it's half what the guy who's running a charter business down the road and trying to make a living is charging, and is thereby undercutting his business. Are any taxes paid on that income? Yeah, right. And you may think taxes are evil, but taxes pay for roads and schools and hospitals. And a guy who isn't paying for a hotel room isn't contributing a thing to the locals. The real crime is that here's a guy who will go home to his TV, his computer with internet capability, minimarts with cold beer on every corner, his cell phone and his SUV. Here's a guy who has more riches and more opportunity than some of the people on these third world islands could ever dream of. And the next guy comes along and does the same thing, and so on. And maybe a hundred years ago the natives on this island would have taken payment for such insolent trespass by chopping off his head and roasting his entrails. But now we are so civilized.

And if you pay to play at Tavarua, you are not only paying for the bed and the food and the privilege to surf there, you are paying boatmen, waiters, housekeepers, maintenance workers, guides and other locals who are working there. And you are paying local taxes, which go to the community of people. And even if you're too poor to afford the gas money to drive there from Bolsa, we are a rich people. Just by having been born here. Consider yourself lucky. There are people living on islands who will never go anywhere else.

And I read about some other camp on a Fiji island that calls itself a surf camp but is run by people who don't know anything about surfing and it used to be a dive and fishing camp. So some other rich asshole is really exploiting the surfers it's luring into a horrid imitation of Rosman's camp. I'm reminded of an Eagles song, "when you call some place Paradise, kiss it goodbye."

OK, I apologize in advance for being extreme in the above example. Any action can be condemned as selfish or irresponsible. Even the most altruistic. None of us are saints, but the fact that someone is an American, or represents a corporation out to make a profit, does not automatically make them evil.

I respect your opinion, Bryan, but I don't share it. Don't condemn me as an immoral or unethical bitch because of that.

dm

[Beeline2.0]

..

[Don]

Guys & Gals,

KEEP IT POSITIVE AND CLEAN.

No problems with expressing opinions and facts but I WILL ban people from this forum if they continue to take shots at one another. That's not what this site is about. If you must confront someone do it off this site via in email not on this site.

We all have better things to do with our time.

Thanks,

[Tom Linn]

What is the best time of year for Tavarua?

I'd love to go and when choosing between a week with the kneelos at Bolsa Chica beach versus Tavarua, the choice is clear. But it would be nice to import Del Taco cuisine while in Fuji.

[Bryan Jackson]

Guys go back and reread the posts. Who started lobbing the grenades first? All I did was point out the ethical and leagl controversies regarding Tavarua and all of sudden people started shitting on me. Why? Are they afraid of the truth?

You want the facts and only the facts. Well here they are:

1) Tavarua is breaking Fijian law so they are indeed criminals and anyone supporting them is supporting criminal activity, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

2) Tavarua has employed violence against outsiders so they are thugs.

3) This problem is spreading throughout the surfing world, both in industrialized and developing countries. So we need to ask ourselves: What are we gonna do about it?

4) I never suggested that there should not be any controls on who gets to surf Cloudbreak, only that Tavarua should not be the only resort to have this control. Obviously both extremes, whether that of elitism or total surrender to feral surfers, is unsatisfactory.

Finally, if I offended anyone in my passionate defense of my arguments I apologize. Perhaps I went to far in some of my comments. My intent is to educate and persuade, not to alienate.

Oh by the way, let's et th record straight. I never said I pulled aerials off of 10 foot waves. That is a misconstruing of what I actually said (that I had inadvertently launched off the faces of such waves).

[albert]

I just want to go surfing....

I dont care where, I dont care how, I just want to go



P.S. Surfed 6-8 foot superbank a few weeks ago, and the section between Greenmount and Kirra was EMPTY!!!

[stemple]

Check the surfline website/travel section for information on when to go. Its a bit of a toss up but maybe the shoulders of the summer season is a possible target. I will throw out Sept/Oct 04 as a possible date. We might be able to get the whole island at that time.

Any other possible dates people what?

p.s. Albert, thanks for rubbing it in. It was knee high and blow out in N.CA

[scoop]

Looks like i might be in Fiji (but on Plantation) with my wife around October 04...WE are meeting up with other friends (one a standup) and maybe coming from or going to Vanuatu also
I would love to hook up with some of you guys and spend some time surfing /chatting/swapping ideas etc
I hope times work out....with a bit of luck will get some more Aussies there too

come back with your thought guys

tony

[DK]

wow. What a discussion.
I do have some sypathies for Brians point of view (not specifically about Tavavrua- because i know nothing about it), however, where do we draw the line on what we will accept and what we wont.
One could argue that riding a surfboard- being made from chemicals and fibreglass ect is supporting corporations with suspect practices, wearing wetsuits made in China, Indonesia ect is supporting exploitation.
God dam wearing anything these days that isnt made in China ect is hard to come by.
Then again the chemical industry ect has also benefited society in many ways too- and perhaps in time (im a optimist) the benefits of forign capital (inc surf companies) will produce a middle class in these countries that will be able to assert their rights more effectively.
Im certainly not going to stop surfing and using my car, or going on holidays.
One has to find for themselves what they find acceptable and what they dont.
Surfers such as Tom Curran and Tom Carroll refused to surf in Sth Africa for many years- other surfers went. Some situations are obvious than others I suppose.

[scoop]

Here here Dave

But whats the chance of doing a fiji thing next year.....a world wide gathering of sorts
I must admit....I do enjoy kneelo company more than standups if they are there
lol

tony