Tavarua Gathering?
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kneemor
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:15 pm
- Location: San Diego
costa rica?
We can have it playa negro or tamarindo.
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Bryan Jackson
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:14 pm
I just love it when someone tries to pull some lame ad hominem bullshit attack on me because that means they don’t have any real response to my arguments.
Like I said I’ve spent a lot of time in Fiji, including one 3 month stretch wherein I traveled and surfed from one end of Viti Levu to the other, made the trip out to Kadavu (a 16 hour ferry ride!), and lived more or less at the level of the locals. I was in Fiji when George Speight and his pathetic gang of thugs pulled the last coup attempt in May 2000 and saw firsthand the devastating effect that had on Fiji. In addition, my brother died (under rather mysterious circumstances, I might add) and is buried out on Waya island, a small island in the Yasawa group northwest of Lautoka. (During that very traumatic ordeal I spent over 3 weeks in hell and got to see Fiji from the inside out in a way that very few westerners could even begin to contemplate or understand. But that is another story altogether!)
So yes, I know Fiji quite well and feel quite justified in discussing/criticizing the expensive, exclusive, and elitist surf resorts (such as Tavarua) that operate there.
A lot of misinformation and/or lies have been spread about what is going on in Fiji and in many other 3rd world surfing destinations as well, and in order to counteract these lies it is necessary that all surfers understand the reality about what is really happening. Greedy foreigners, Americans, Australians and New Zealanders alike, as well as corporate interests are strangling the true spirit of surfing while exploiting and raping 3rd world countries in much the same way as any other foreign owned multinational corporations. To cover up their crimes and exploitation they employ a variety of lies and excuses, but please don’t believe a word of what they say for even one minute.
As far as the specific situation with Tavarua/Cloudbreak (the proposed kneelo gathering site) goes, Jon Roseman is not a Fijian. He is from California, as are his partners in crime, and until he and his particular gang of thugs came along and bought up the rights to Tavarua island, many other local Fijians besides the village that owns Tavarua itself were making a living running surfers out to Cloudbreak.
So just how did Roseman get exclusive rights to this wave and push out all the others? Some local village must have owned the break and signed their rights over to him, right? Wrong.
Here are the facts about so called ownership of surfing areas in Fiji...
Fijian law, passed and approved by the Great Council of Chiefs (Fiji's collective indigenous ruling body) as well as the Fijian parliament (of which many of the aforementioned chiefs are members), is very clear on this matter. The specific law is called the Fisheries act and provides for the maintenance of traditional fishing grounds of the indigenous Fijian population. Basically that law states that areas associated with a given village’s fishing activities are for the exclusive use of that village and that village only.
But here is the key point - this exclusivity is for the gathering and harvesting of marine resources only, not for the right of access to that area for non-fishing activities!
Simply stated, the law does not give anyone the right to own the waves in Fiji. The ownership of access to the ocean beyond the in-shore area is the sole domain of the national Fijian government, not of any particular group or individual. And as I stated before, Cloudbreak is simply located too far offshore to qualify as a traditional fishing ground anyway. In addition, no one even lived on Tavarua island, not permanently anyway, before the surf resort set up operations there. The local people just used it as sort of fishing camp. (Also there are no hospitals, schools, etc. located there. Those are all on the mainland of Viti Levu).
Fijian law also clearly states that the right of access to the ocean is open to anyone and that it is illegal to accept or pay fees for such access. Case in point, recreational diving operations, which bring in a lot of tourist dollars, would probably soon go out of business if, on top of everything else (accommodations, food, air, boat, dive master, etc.) divers had to pay the same exorbitant access fees that surfers pay to surf Cloud Break.
Although fishing rights can be bought through proper channels, access rights can not. But what has happened in the case of Cloudbreak is that fishing rights to Tavarua have been bought by westerners (Roseman et al.) in order to give them control of access to the wave there - Restaurants - which is perfectly legitimate. But their claim to Cloudbreak is not legitimate. In addition, it is primarily those western owners, not the local Fijians, who profit from control of access to that wave. Of course they throw a few crumbs to the locals, minimum wage jobs, a school here, a clinic there, etc. Meanwhile, local Fijian politicians have been bribed to look the other way and allow this filth to go on.
And to make matters even worse, this practice is becoming widespread in Fiji! Most any Fijian surfing resort you see that advertises exclusive access to a break is engaging in this practice. For example, I was told that I would probably be the last independent surfer to surf Gigia, a break on the southern tip of Kadavu, when I was there in late April 2000. Why? Because an expensive new resort was about to open up on a nearby offshore island and the foreign owners had gained exclusive access rights to the break from the local village (if a resort can’t control access to the waves then they have a hard time charging big bucks bringing in surfers). But what about the local Fijian I was staying with who made a decent living hosting surfers traveling on their own? He was about to lose his business and only source of income. Apparently some Americans also tried to pull the same scam with Frigates Pass, a wave that has been called the “Poor Man’s Cloudbreak”, but fortunately failed in that devious attempt as Frigates is a barrier reef pass located some 10 miles out to sea and it was just too ludicrous for any one to claim control of access to this break.
Obviously there is a need to maintain traditional fishing rights for both economic and cultural reasons. But the corruption of an extremely important law, usually at the behest of foreigners, is not only in violation of national Fijian statute law but also of traditional Fijian culture as well. For example, traditionally if you wanted to access an area controlled by an individual village for whatever purpose you could usually do so by first going to the village chief and performing a sevusevu, or traditional show of respect involving a presentation of kava. After doing so permission was almost always granted. Now it is all about the almighty dollar and even local Fijian surfers are denied access to Cloud Break, sevusevu or no sevusevu!
Tourism is Fiji's number one generator of foreign revenue and I believe that creating these exclusive economic zones - often keeping people away by actual or threatened violence to person or property - does a great disservice to the social fabric and overall economic interests of the Fijian people when this crap is allowed to go on. Many independent surfers leave Fiji with a bitter taste in their mouth and a negative outlook on surfing in Fiji, vowing never to return and telling others not to go. Why? Being threatened and/or made to pay just to paddle out top the list of reasons given for this negativity.
And the practice of paying for access to waves really hasn’t helped the local people as much as some would have us believe. In fact, it has even harmed them, creating numerous cases of division within previously tranquil villages and even pitted entire villages against other villages as each attempted to claim ownership of a surfing area! So in regard to the argument that the village controlling Tavarua has benefited, while that may be true to some limited extent the question that must be asked is, at what cost to other Fijians who have suffered as a result? (Just think of all the local boatmen who used to make a living running independent surfers out to Cloudbreak but can no longer do so).
And don’t please don’t buy into that lame and tired old argument about preventing Fiji from becoming another ‘Indo surf slum’. The plain and simple truth of the matter is that Fiji was never in any danger of becoming a surf slum for at least two reasons: First off, the surf in Fiji is not as consistent as Indo and, apart from the Mamanuca area, traveling from one break to another typically involves at least a day’s travel as well as some hassle. Secondly, Fiji, while cheap in comparison to say Hawaii or Tahiti, is still much more expensive than Indo (the exchange rate is about 2 Fijian dollars to 1 US dollar). So you have to be either a true roots surfer, willing to rough it and endure long periods of not surfing or have a lot of money in order to hang out and/or surf Fiji. True, low cost accommodations do exist throughout Fiji, but they are there because Fiji is an attractive destination for the backpacker crowd in general, not because of surf bums.
In short, Fiji was and still is in no danger of being overrun by the Indo surf rat crowd (but of course, there are a few of those types in Fiji, just as there are in most any 3rd world country) and in any event, preventing Fiji from becoming a surf slum would involve a lot more than controlling access to just one or two waves (e.g., Cloudbreak, Namotu, etc.). It would be necessary to control all surfers coming into Fiji and folks, be realistic, that just ain’t gonna happen any time soon!
So this idea that Roseman and his gang of thugs and criminals are somehow protecting Fiji from becoming another surf slum is really just another lie used to justify their obscene behavior and exploitation of the Fijian people and monopolize one of the world‘s best wave. What’s more, keeping independent surfers away from Cloudbreak just creates crowded and dangerous conditions at other nearby breaks such as Wilkes Pass while Cloudbreak may be completely empty (I’ve seen it with my own eyes!). I could possibly accept the argument that Roseman was sincere in this regard if he was wasn’t making such obscenely fat profits from his control of Cloud Break as well as aggrandizing himself at the same time. (Have you ever seen a picture of him surfing Cloud Break? The guy stinks! All he can do is drop in and go for the shoulder. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a picture of him in the barrel and come on, we’re talking about one the world’s premier hollow waves here, one that, along with Pipeline and Teahupo‘o, defines all the others! Do you honestly believe he would ever get his picture in any of the mags if he wasn‘t the “owner” of Cloudbreak?)
So anyway what does this all mean to the concerned surfer and, more importantly, what can you do about it? In the end that is up to you to decide.
Do you illegally and immorally pay the money (and usually big money at that) to surf the place and therefore support the perpetrators of these criminal and despicable acts (all while screwing-over Fiji and the Fijian people)?
Or, as painful as it may be to pass up the chance to surf such incredible waves as Cloudbreak, should you choose to boycott such criminal activities, maintain your integrity, hold your head up high, and hope that somehow, someday, things change for the better?
If you choose the latter, then since the Fijian government is either unable or unlikely to take control of this problem any time soon, you must realize that it is really up to both you as an individual and the surfing community at large to rein in these villains. The most effective way to do so - hit them right where it hurts them the most - in their pocket books!
So while many surfers with absolutely no sense of ethics or morality whatsoever who will succumb to this devastating disease (and just like a cancerous growth it is spreading throughout the surfing world, just take a look at what is going on in Samoa, the Tuamotos, the Mentawais, etc.) and support these thugs and criminals, hopefully enough others will be strong enough to resist temptation such that resorts such as Tavarua will be forced out of existence.
And it is my sincere hope that kneelos, both as individuals and as a group, can once again lead the way in the surfing world. Be strong! Be independent! Think for yourself! For that is (or at least once was) the way of kneeboarders.
Don't give your dollars and support to these western capitalist pigs who are not only ruining the true spirit and nature of surfing but are also exploiting and bastardizing the Fijian people when they violate Fijian traditions, culture, and laws! Don’t sell your souls to the corporate world for a few good waves! (And if you do then don’t ever complain about localism at any of your home area breaks. In fact, don’t even complain when someone drops in on “your” wave, for if you didn’t pay hard cash for it then what right could you possibly have to claim it as your wave? And while we're at it, would you care for a little dolphin meat with that cheap tuna salad you're eating?)
But if you feel as passionately about this as I do then you can go even further. Email or write your complaints to the surfing resorts engaging in this practice. Write letters of protest to the magazines that advertise and publicize these resorts. Write their advertisers and tell them what you think and that you won’t be buying any more of their products. Take a stand. This is a power that we have, both collectively and individually, so please do not underestimate it. Speak out whenever and wherever you can (on websites such as this, for example) and spread this information as far and as wide as you possibly can, for knowledge is the ultimate power!
Like I said I’ve spent a lot of time in Fiji, including one 3 month stretch wherein I traveled and surfed from one end of Viti Levu to the other, made the trip out to Kadavu (a 16 hour ferry ride!), and lived more or less at the level of the locals. I was in Fiji when George Speight and his pathetic gang of thugs pulled the last coup attempt in May 2000 and saw firsthand the devastating effect that had on Fiji. In addition, my brother died (under rather mysterious circumstances, I might add) and is buried out on Waya island, a small island in the Yasawa group northwest of Lautoka. (During that very traumatic ordeal I spent over 3 weeks in hell and got to see Fiji from the inside out in a way that very few westerners could even begin to contemplate or understand. But that is another story altogether!)
So yes, I know Fiji quite well and feel quite justified in discussing/criticizing the expensive, exclusive, and elitist surf resorts (such as Tavarua) that operate there.
A lot of misinformation and/or lies have been spread about what is going on in Fiji and in many other 3rd world surfing destinations as well, and in order to counteract these lies it is necessary that all surfers understand the reality about what is really happening. Greedy foreigners, Americans, Australians and New Zealanders alike, as well as corporate interests are strangling the true spirit of surfing while exploiting and raping 3rd world countries in much the same way as any other foreign owned multinational corporations. To cover up their crimes and exploitation they employ a variety of lies and excuses, but please don’t believe a word of what they say for even one minute.
As far as the specific situation with Tavarua/Cloudbreak (the proposed kneelo gathering site) goes, Jon Roseman is not a Fijian. He is from California, as are his partners in crime, and until he and his particular gang of thugs came along and bought up the rights to Tavarua island, many other local Fijians besides the village that owns Tavarua itself were making a living running surfers out to Cloudbreak.
So just how did Roseman get exclusive rights to this wave and push out all the others? Some local village must have owned the break and signed their rights over to him, right? Wrong.
Here are the facts about so called ownership of surfing areas in Fiji...
Fijian law, passed and approved by the Great Council of Chiefs (Fiji's collective indigenous ruling body) as well as the Fijian parliament (of which many of the aforementioned chiefs are members), is very clear on this matter. The specific law is called the Fisheries act and provides for the maintenance of traditional fishing grounds of the indigenous Fijian population. Basically that law states that areas associated with a given village’s fishing activities are for the exclusive use of that village and that village only.
But here is the key point - this exclusivity is for the gathering and harvesting of marine resources only, not for the right of access to that area for non-fishing activities!
Simply stated, the law does not give anyone the right to own the waves in Fiji. The ownership of access to the ocean beyond the in-shore area is the sole domain of the national Fijian government, not of any particular group or individual. And as I stated before, Cloudbreak is simply located too far offshore to qualify as a traditional fishing ground anyway. In addition, no one even lived on Tavarua island, not permanently anyway, before the surf resort set up operations there. The local people just used it as sort of fishing camp. (Also there are no hospitals, schools, etc. located there. Those are all on the mainland of Viti Levu).
Fijian law also clearly states that the right of access to the ocean is open to anyone and that it is illegal to accept or pay fees for such access. Case in point, recreational diving operations, which bring in a lot of tourist dollars, would probably soon go out of business if, on top of everything else (accommodations, food, air, boat, dive master, etc.) divers had to pay the same exorbitant access fees that surfers pay to surf Cloud Break.
Although fishing rights can be bought through proper channels, access rights can not. But what has happened in the case of Cloudbreak is that fishing rights to Tavarua have been bought by westerners (Roseman et al.) in order to give them control of access to the wave there - Restaurants - which is perfectly legitimate. But their claim to Cloudbreak is not legitimate. In addition, it is primarily those western owners, not the local Fijians, who profit from control of access to that wave. Of course they throw a few crumbs to the locals, minimum wage jobs, a school here, a clinic there, etc. Meanwhile, local Fijian politicians have been bribed to look the other way and allow this filth to go on.
And to make matters even worse, this practice is becoming widespread in Fiji! Most any Fijian surfing resort you see that advertises exclusive access to a break is engaging in this practice. For example, I was told that I would probably be the last independent surfer to surf Gigia, a break on the southern tip of Kadavu, when I was there in late April 2000. Why? Because an expensive new resort was about to open up on a nearby offshore island and the foreign owners had gained exclusive access rights to the break from the local village (if a resort can’t control access to the waves then they have a hard time charging big bucks bringing in surfers). But what about the local Fijian I was staying with who made a decent living hosting surfers traveling on their own? He was about to lose his business and only source of income. Apparently some Americans also tried to pull the same scam with Frigates Pass, a wave that has been called the “Poor Man’s Cloudbreak”, but fortunately failed in that devious attempt as Frigates is a barrier reef pass located some 10 miles out to sea and it was just too ludicrous for any one to claim control of access to this break.
Obviously there is a need to maintain traditional fishing rights for both economic and cultural reasons. But the corruption of an extremely important law, usually at the behest of foreigners, is not only in violation of national Fijian statute law but also of traditional Fijian culture as well. For example, traditionally if you wanted to access an area controlled by an individual village for whatever purpose you could usually do so by first going to the village chief and performing a sevusevu, or traditional show of respect involving a presentation of kava. After doing so permission was almost always granted. Now it is all about the almighty dollar and even local Fijian surfers are denied access to Cloud Break, sevusevu or no sevusevu!
Tourism is Fiji's number one generator of foreign revenue and I believe that creating these exclusive economic zones - often keeping people away by actual or threatened violence to person or property - does a great disservice to the social fabric and overall economic interests of the Fijian people when this crap is allowed to go on. Many independent surfers leave Fiji with a bitter taste in their mouth and a negative outlook on surfing in Fiji, vowing never to return and telling others not to go. Why? Being threatened and/or made to pay just to paddle out top the list of reasons given for this negativity.
And the practice of paying for access to waves really hasn’t helped the local people as much as some would have us believe. In fact, it has even harmed them, creating numerous cases of division within previously tranquil villages and even pitted entire villages against other villages as each attempted to claim ownership of a surfing area! So in regard to the argument that the village controlling Tavarua has benefited, while that may be true to some limited extent the question that must be asked is, at what cost to other Fijians who have suffered as a result? (Just think of all the local boatmen who used to make a living running independent surfers out to Cloudbreak but can no longer do so).
And don’t please don’t buy into that lame and tired old argument about preventing Fiji from becoming another ‘Indo surf slum’. The plain and simple truth of the matter is that Fiji was never in any danger of becoming a surf slum for at least two reasons: First off, the surf in Fiji is not as consistent as Indo and, apart from the Mamanuca area, traveling from one break to another typically involves at least a day’s travel as well as some hassle. Secondly, Fiji, while cheap in comparison to say Hawaii or Tahiti, is still much more expensive than Indo (the exchange rate is about 2 Fijian dollars to 1 US dollar). So you have to be either a true roots surfer, willing to rough it and endure long periods of not surfing or have a lot of money in order to hang out and/or surf Fiji. True, low cost accommodations do exist throughout Fiji, but they are there because Fiji is an attractive destination for the backpacker crowd in general, not because of surf bums.
In short, Fiji was and still is in no danger of being overrun by the Indo surf rat crowd (but of course, there are a few of those types in Fiji, just as there are in most any 3rd world country) and in any event, preventing Fiji from becoming a surf slum would involve a lot more than controlling access to just one or two waves (e.g., Cloudbreak, Namotu, etc.). It would be necessary to control all surfers coming into Fiji and folks, be realistic, that just ain’t gonna happen any time soon!
So this idea that Roseman and his gang of thugs and criminals are somehow protecting Fiji from becoming another surf slum is really just another lie used to justify their obscene behavior and exploitation of the Fijian people and monopolize one of the world‘s best wave. What’s more, keeping independent surfers away from Cloudbreak just creates crowded and dangerous conditions at other nearby breaks such as Wilkes Pass while Cloudbreak may be completely empty (I’ve seen it with my own eyes!). I could possibly accept the argument that Roseman was sincere in this regard if he was wasn’t making such obscenely fat profits from his control of Cloud Break as well as aggrandizing himself at the same time. (Have you ever seen a picture of him surfing Cloud Break? The guy stinks! All he can do is drop in and go for the shoulder. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a picture of him in the barrel and come on, we’re talking about one the world’s premier hollow waves here, one that, along with Pipeline and Teahupo‘o, defines all the others! Do you honestly believe he would ever get his picture in any of the mags if he wasn‘t the “owner” of Cloudbreak?)
So anyway what does this all mean to the concerned surfer and, more importantly, what can you do about it? In the end that is up to you to decide.
Do you illegally and immorally pay the money (and usually big money at that) to surf the place and therefore support the perpetrators of these criminal and despicable acts (all while screwing-over Fiji and the Fijian people)?
Or, as painful as it may be to pass up the chance to surf such incredible waves as Cloudbreak, should you choose to boycott such criminal activities, maintain your integrity, hold your head up high, and hope that somehow, someday, things change for the better?
If you choose the latter, then since the Fijian government is either unable or unlikely to take control of this problem any time soon, you must realize that it is really up to both you as an individual and the surfing community at large to rein in these villains. The most effective way to do so - hit them right where it hurts them the most - in their pocket books!
So while many surfers with absolutely no sense of ethics or morality whatsoever who will succumb to this devastating disease (and just like a cancerous growth it is spreading throughout the surfing world, just take a look at what is going on in Samoa, the Tuamotos, the Mentawais, etc.) and support these thugs and criminals, hopefully enough others will be strong enough to resist temptation such that resorts such as Tavarua will be forced out of existence.
And it is my sincere hope that kneelos, both as individuals and as a group, can once again lead the way in the surfing world. Be strong! Be independent! Think for yourself! For that is (or at least once was) the way of kneeboarders.
Don't give your dollars and support to these western capitalist pigs who are not only ruining the true spirit and nature of surfing but are also exploiting and bastardizing the Fijian people when they violate Fijian traditions, culture, and laws! Don’t sell your souls to the corporate world for a few good waves! (And if you do then don’t ever complain about localism at any of your home area breaks. In fact, don’t even complain when someone drops in on “your” wave, for if you didn’t pay hard cash for it then what right could you possibly have to claim it as your wave? And while we're at it, would you care for a little dolphin meat with that cheap tuna salad you're eating?)
But if you feel as passionately about this as I do then you can go even further. Email or write your complaints to the surfing resorts engaging in this practice. Write letters of protest to the magazines that advertise and publicize these resorts. Write their advertisers and tell them what you think and that you won’t be buying any more of their products. Take a stand. This is a power that we have, both collectively and individually, so please do not underestimate it. Speak out whenever and wherever you can (on websites such as this, for example) and spread this information as far and as wide as you possibly can, for knowledge is the ultimate power!
Bryan.
I was trying over the last couple of days to respond to your first hate-filled reply, but my computer has been down. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I KNOW Jon, he is not only the mellowest guy on the planet, BUT AN INSANE surfer. I know Dave, who handles all the land rights, and I must say you distort the truth magnificently.
You can spit all the venom you want, but the truth is, I have traveled all over the world and Tavarua is a blessing . To be able to go someplace that is not over-run by a bunch of feral, dole living, arrogant, line-up controlling, international surf bums, is worth every penny. Everyone who just read your email is probably booking a ticket just because guys like you won't be there!(Could you imagine getting stuck in a Bure with THAT guy? Jesus.)
Relax Bryan. Your brother is gone, Tavarua is here to stay, and we must all find a balance in this world between anarchy and absolute control. Tavarua is a unique and special place which would be perfect for a GATHERING of unique and special surfers. Everything has it's place, because in the end, everyone just wants to go surfing.
I was trying over the last couple of days to respond to your first hate-filled reply, but my computer has been down. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I KNOW Jon, he is not only the mellowest guy on the planet, BUT AN INSANE surfer. I know Dave, who handles all the land rights, and I must say you distort the truth magnificently.
You can spit all the venom you want, but the truth is, I have traveled all over the world and Tavarua is a blessing . To be able to go someplace that is not over-run by a bunch of feral, dole living, arrogant, line-up controlling, international surf bums, is worth every penny. Everyone who just read your email is probably booking a ticket just because guys like you won't be there!(Could you imagine getting stuck in a Bure with THAT guy? Jesus.)
Relax Bryan. Your brother is gone, Tavarua is here to stay, and we must all find a balance in this world between anarchy and absolute control. Tavarua is a unique and special place which would be perfect for a GATHERING of unique and special surfers. Everything has it's place, because in the end, everyone just wants to go surfing.
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Bryan Jackson
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:14 pm
To steeno and all other supporters of corporate raiders
Once again all you can do is come back with some ad hominem attacks against me and have really said nothing to disprove anything I've said.
Whether or not Roseman is a cool and mellow guy has absolutely nothing at all to do with the politics and controversy surrounding Cloudbreak. (I'm sure some people thought Hitler was a really cool and mellow guy too!).
In my experince the only people who support these expensive, elitist surf resorts (such as Tavarua) are:
1) People who are ignorant of the situation and/or just accept it as is, or
2) People who are personally benefiting from the exploitation of Fiji's waves and people (not necessarily financially as they may actually suffer when they have to cough up the big bucks to surf a few good waves) because they enjoy the exclusive access to those waves that that exploitation gives them.
So which are you, Steeno? I would hazard a guess that it is the second.
And no, I am not filled with any personal hate or venom towards Roseman or any other westerners involved with Tavarua, at least no more than I would be towards any other corporate smucks who are exploiting/raping the earth and/or its indigenous peoples. I've never even met the guy. I just think he's a goon for what he has done to Cloudbreak. That's all. (And I'm hardly alone in holding that viewpoint, either.)
If the local Fijians had decided all on their own to claim Cloudbreak or any other wave in Fiji as their exclusive property then all I could say would be, "hey, more power to them!". I would have absolutely no problem with that as it is their country, their resources, etc., and it is entirely up to them to do with as they wish. End of argument.
But they had more than a little outside help in coming up with this idea, now didn't they? And that's where the true problem lies.
(As far as my brother's death goes, I only brought that up in order to establish my credentials as someone who is knowledgeable about Fiji in a very up-close and personal way.)
But hey! If you think that localism, even if it involves violence and thuggery, is A-OK as long as it means you and perhaps a few friends get to surf the best waves all by yourself, then at least we now know your ethical stance (it stinks!). But like I said, just don't complain when it happens to you at your local breaks. (What goes around comes around!)
And if in addition to having no ethical bones in your body you are also either filthy rich and/or have a wealthy corporate sponsor, then by all means go ahead and stay at Tavarua and surf Cloudbreak.
Of course if you are neither of the above, you can always hope to surf there on Saturday, Tavarua's so-called turn-around day. If you do here is what will happen:
First of all it is not even guaranteed that Tavarua Resort will even allow surfing on Saturday. It is entirely up to their whims and how they are feeling at the moment.
But if they are in a generous mood, then you will have to first catch a boat out to Tavarua island (Seashell Cove in Momi Bay is one possibility).
Then you will have to unload all your gear onto the island, pay Tavarua Resort another F$10 on top of whatever you already paid for your boat ride out and sign a waiver releasing Tavarua Resort from all responsibility and also promising that you will be a good obedient little boy (you won't paddle around any long boarders sitting in the channel). Then you will load all your gear into the Tavarua boat to get ferried out to Cloudbreak.
Of course by the time you've done all this half the day is shot but you can still get out there and get a few good waves, or so you think. Well think again, my friend! The rest of your day is now ruined because of the hordes of surf rats that have now infested the place with the same dream as you. Surfing Cloudbreak's incredible waves on the one (possible) day of the week outsiders are allowed in. (Also, Cloudbreak may or may not be firing that day as it is not really as consistent as you might think it is from the mags, videos, etc.)
And who should you thank for all those surf rats being out there? Well you could begin with the Tavarua Resort and all the mainstream surf media for their relentless coverage and publicity about Cloudbreak. That has had more than a little bit to do with attracting all those surf rats there.
Anyway there are alternatives to Cloudbreak in Fiji. You just have to be a bit more intrepid, independent, and prepared to search them out (and hope some corporate smucks haven't already gotten to them ahead of you).
Now does all of this mean that I think Cloudbreak should just be thrown wide open to all comers? That it should become another free-fire zone with absolutely no control of the crowds? Of course not!
But it shouldn't be the exclusive domain of a just a wealthy few either!
Why not let some of the other local Fijians in on the action? (Remember there were locals accessing the place long before Tavarua Resort got its greedy hooks into the place). Form an association of local resorts, Fijian surfers, interested outsiders, etc., to more equitably and fairly share the waves and money flowing from their use. That to me as well as many others, including many local Fijians, would be a much better situation than now exists.
But as long as Roseman et al. have their criminal stranglehold on the place then I doubt that will ever happen. Oh well. The surfing world's loss I guess. (Just hope it doesn't happen to that new wave you just discovered in another remote corner of the world!)
So if you have no sense of adventure or ethics whatsoever, all you want to do is be picked up at Nadi airport, herded out to Tavarua island with the rest of the sheep and then, after your $2599 week of hopefully fantastic surf herded back to Nadi airport to fly home and brag about your epic surf trip, then go for it! In that case all I can say is, "Good luck and good riddance. You're one more idiot I won't have to deal with at wherever else I'm surfing in Fiji!"
Whether or not Roseman is a cool and mellow guy has absolutely nothing at all to do with the politics and controversy surrounding Cloudbreak. (I'm sure some people thought Hitler was a really cool and mellow guy too!).
In my experince the only people who support these expensive, elitist surf resorts (such as Tavarua) are:
1) People who are ignorant of the situation and/or just accept it as is, or
2) People who are personally benefiting from the exploitation of Fiji's waves and people (not necessarily financially as they may actually suffer when they have to cough up the big bucks to surf a few good waves) because they enjoy the exclusive access to those waves that that exploitation gives them.
So which are you, Steeno? I would hazard a guess that it is the second.
And no, I am not filled with any personal hate or venom towards Roseman or any other westerners involved with Tavarua, at least no more than I would be towards any other corporate smucks who are exploiting/raping the earth and/or its indigenous peoples. I've never even met the guy. I just think he's a goon for what he has done to Cloudbreak. That's all. (And I'm hardly alone in holding that viewpoint, either.)
If the local Fijians had decided all on their own to claim Cloudbreak or any other wave in Fiji as their exclusive property then all I could say would be, "hey, more power to them!". I would have absolutely no problem with that as it is their country, their resources, etc., and it is entirely up to them to do with as they wish. End of argument.
But they had more than a little outside help in coming up with this idea, now didn't they? And that's where the true problem lies.
(As far as my brother's death goes, I only brought that up in order to establish my credentials as someone who is knowledgeable about Fiji in a very up-close and personal way.)
But hey! If you think that localism, even if it involves violence and thuggery, is A-OK as long as it means you and perhaps a few friends get to surf the best waves all by yourself, then at least we now know your ethical stance (it stinks!). But like I said, just don't complain when it happens to you at your local breaks. (What goes around comes around!)
And if in addition to having no ethical bones in your body you are also either filthy rich and/or have a wealthy corporate sponsor, then by all means go ahead and stay at Tavarua and surf Cloudbreak.
Of course if you are neither of the above, you can always hope to surf there on Saturday, Tavarua's so-called turn-around day. If you do here is what will happen:
First of all it is not even guaranteed that Tavarua Resort will even allow surfing on Saturday. It is entirely up to their whims and how they are feeling at the moment.
But if they are in a generous mood, then you will have to first catch a boat out to Tavarua island (Seashell Cove in Momi Bay is one possibility).
Then you will have to unload all your gear onto the island, pay Tavarua Resort another F$10 on top of whatever you already paid for your boat ride out and sign a waiver releasing Tavarua Resort from all responsibility and also promising that you will be a good obedient little boy (you won't paddle around any long boarders sitting in the channel). Then you will load all your gear into the Tavarua boat to get ferried out to Cloudbreak.
Of course by the time you've done all this half the day is shot but you can still get out there and get a few good waves, or so you think. Well think again, my friend! The rest of your day is now ruined because of the hordes of surf rats that have now infested the place with the same dream as you. Surfing Cloudbreak's incredible waves on the one (possible) day of the week outsiders are allowed in. (Also, Cloudbreak may or may not be firing that day as it is not really as consistent as you might think it is from the mags, videos, etc.)
And who should you thank for all those surf rats being out there? Well you could begin with the Tavarua Resort and all the mainstream surf media for their relentless coverage and publicity about Cloudbreak. That has had more than a little bit to do with attracting all those surf rats there.
Anyway there are alternatives to Cloudbreak in Fiji. You just have to be a bit more intrepid, independent, and prepared to search them out (and hope some corporate smucks haven't already gotten to them ahead of you).
Now does all of this mean that I think Cloudbreak should just be thrown wide open to all comers? That it should become another free-fire zone with absolutely no control of the crowds? Of course not!
But it shouldn't be the exclusive domain of a just a wealthy few either!
Why not let some of the other local Fijians in on the action? (Remember there were locals accessing the place long before Tavarua Resort got its greedy hooks into the place). Form an association of local resorts, Fijian surfers, interested outsiders, etc., to more equitably and fairly share the waves and money flowing from their use. That to me as well as many others, including many local Fijians, would be a much better situation than now exists.
But as long as Roseman et al. have their criminal stranglehold on the place then I doubt that will ever happen. Oh well. The surfing world's loss I guess. (Just hope it doesn't happen to that new wave you just discovered in another remote corner of the world!)
So if you have no sense of adventure or ethics whatsoever, all you want to do is be picked up at Nadi airport, herded out to Tavarua island with the rest of the sheep and then, after your $2599 week of hopefully fantastic surf herded back to Nadi airport to fly home and brag about your epic surf trip, then go for it! In that case all I can say is, "Good luck and good riddance. You're one more idiot I won't have to deal with at wherever else I'm surfing in Fiji!"
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kneemor
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
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Costa Rica
What about Costa Rica guys?
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MWROBERTSON
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 12:17 pm
- Location: Cosat Mesa-CA
Tavarua con't....
Wow! That's some smoking dialouge that has been going on. It's difficult as humans to keep our personal bias and emotions out of any arugument/dialouge 
Nevertheless, you all bring up some EXCELLENT Points. If I read the facts(if they are so??) and leave out the personal stone throwing I feel like I have really learned something about Fiji.
I was there in 1997 and it was one of the best experiences of my life. When people ask me of my Tavarua experience. I would tell eveyone that I had been to Heaven and back and that you should go too! Needless to say, I had herd nothing of these awful exploits until a few years later. I hope things aren't as radical as Bryan states but is there some truth here? As far as Roseman, I hear he is regarded as one of the better tube riders in the world!
My travels have left me stoked! However there is some sadness when I see how many spots are being over run by crowds and exploited for profit. I too have surfed all over the world and have experienced, South Africa, Fiji-Tavarua, G-Land, West Java (One Palm Point), Bali, the Mentawais, Australia,Costa Rica, Panama, El Salvador, Mexico, Baja, Hawaiian Islands, Oregon, Washington, etc. etc. (note,many have traveled way more than I have!)
Every spot has it's beauty and awesome waves. This normally out weighs the negatives, but as the sport of surfing becomes more and more popular, there are more people in the line ups. Even the most remote regions have crowds. G-Land has TWO Camps now! In the Mentawais, there are guys in the jungle claiming "squatters rights" to surf breaks, 50 plus guys in the line up because 10 boats have dropped off a slew of guys to "rip it up" and horde as many waves as possible. Try going over and surfing Namotu Island(spelling?). You'll get kicked out of there too.
A funny thing about SOME humans...we want our cake and to eat it too. We want to experience uncrowded perfect surf with a few friends. On the other hand, once that happens, someone always wants to brag to whomever about what they have experienced and how you should have some of IT too. BINGO! How about turning this place into a Profit Center?O howabout a possible show case for media exposure and/or an avenue to elevate "OUR EGO's"! (I'm not exempt here, I have been so excited about spots that I have found, I have foamed at the mouth wanting to share the place with others. Also, I have "PAID TO PLAY" so to speak. It's been a good option for someone who wants a place of beauty with high quality surf with limited time. Am I a criminal?)
Not wanting to justify any bad behavior, but if we take our current place of residence (that includes ALL countries) and break out the history books, there is some form of EXPLOITATION of the local land, water, anaimals, elements, and most of all the native people who first occupied those lands.
Another sorry but true observation, is how many poor countries and people will SELL anything to get $$ in an attempt to improve their lifestyles. Yes, it happens. Are they guilty as ENABELERS?
Hopefully, we will all do the best we can.(That's what I love about the KBers that I know. I have met more new and cool friends over the last few years, from ALL CONTINENTS just because we have KBing in common!) Keep in mind that sanctimonious posturing will continue to fire this folly!
Nevertheless, you all bring up some EXCELLENT Points. If I read the facts(if they are so??) and leave out the personal stone throwing I feel like I have really learned something about Fiji.I was there in 1997 and it was one of the best experiences of my life. When people ask me of my Tavarua experience. I would tell eveyone that I had been to Heaven and back and that you should go too! Needless to say, I had herd nothing of these awful exploits until a few years later. I hope things aren't as radical as Bryan states but is there some truth here? As far as Roseman, I hear he is regarded as one of the better tube riders in the world!
My travels have left me stoked! However there is some sadness when I see how many spots are being over run by crowds and exploited for profit. I too have surfed all over the world and have experienced, South Africa, Fiji-Tavarua, G-Land, West Java (One Palm Point), Bali, the Mentawais, Australia,Costa Rica, Panama, El Salvador, Mexico, Baja, Hawaiian Islands, Oregon, Washington, etc. etc. (note,many have traveled way more than I have!)
Every spot has it's beauty and awesome waves. This normally out weighs the negatives, but as the sport of surfing becomes more and more popular, there are more people in the line ups. Even the most remote regions have crowds. G-Land has TWO Camps now! In the Mentawais, there are guys in the jungle claiming "squatters rights" to surf breaks, 50 plus guys in the line up because 10 boats have dropped off a slew of guys to "rip it up" and horde as many waves as possible. Try going over and surfing Namotu Island(spelling?). You'll get kicked out of there too.
A funny thing about SOME humans...we want our cake and to eat it too. We want to experience uncrowded perfect surf with a few friends. On the other hand, once that happens, someone always wants to brag to whomever about what they have experienced and how you should have some of IT too. BINGO! How about turning this place into a Profit Center?O howabout a possible show case for media exposure and/or an avenue to elevate "OUR EGO's"! (I'm not exempt here, I have been so excited about spots that I have found, I have foamed at the mouth wanting to share the place with others. Also, I have "PAID TO PLAY" so to speak. It's been a good option for someone who wants a place of beauty with high quality surf with limited time. Am I a criminal?)
Not wanting to justify any bad behavior, but if we take our current place of residence (that includes ALL countries) and break out the history books, there is some form of EXPLOITATION of the local land, water, anaimals, elements, and most of all the native people who first occupied those lands.
Another sorry but true observation, is how many poor countries and people will SELL anything to get $$ in an attempt to improve their lifestyles. Yes, it happens. Are they guilty as ENABELERS?
Hopefully, we will all do the best we can.(That's what I love about the KBers that I know. I have met more new and cool friends over the last few years, from ALL CONTINENTS just because we have KBing in common!) Keep in mind that sanctimonious posturing will continue to fire this folly!
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Steeno
- Legend (Contribution Guru)
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2003 4:09 pm
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I dont know what my personal attack is all about, I am allowed to have an opinion aswell, whether it be the same as yours or not. But if you wanna get personal mate, i remember you telling me (about 12 months ago) that aerial surfing was for kneeboarders that dont surf good waves and that they are losing the very spirit of kneeboarding. Hence paying out the Simpsons Aerial antics, the world will forever change and develop it is the nature of our species. And so will the sport of kneeboarding, but after hearing you tell us you pull aerials of a ten foot reef face in Samoa, i will find it hard to believe most things you say. But as far as Fiji goes, I can see both sides of the story, so stop making assumptions about who you think I am. I am allowed to agree with other contributors of this forum without you guessing personally what my feelings are. No offence intended, but if you dig at me I will dig at you.
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stemple
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 516
- Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:06 pm
- Location: Berkeley, CA
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who's in
As far as I see it, we have 6 or so that are potentially in. I will keep track and once it looks like we are getting close to good group number or the Nov commit date looms near, I will use PMs to keep folks informed on possible dates etc.
Bryan, I respect your passion but I would like to surf cloudbreak before I can't, or sea level rise ruins it, and I think alot of other folks do too. You have made your point very well to the group and you should respect their views and desires.
If anything, this forum is quite informative, interesting, as well as entertaining
Bryan, I respect your passion but I would like to surf cloudbreak before I can't, or sea level rise ruins it, and I think alot of other folks do too. You have made your point very well to the group and you should respect their views and desires.
If anything, this forum is quite informative, interesting, as well as entertaining
Tavarua vs. Bolsa
Is there anything that has been exploited at Bolsa that we need to know about?
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Beeline2.0
- Legend (Contribution King!)
- Posts: 1873
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:02 pm
Don't worry Steeno, we got your back.
You see, the problem with guys like Bryan is they only see the world from their own very narrow, virulent, frame of mind. Guys like Bryan don't care about guys who have jobs. Guys who have families. Guys who bust their asses to run small businesses and only have a two week vacation every year. Guys who might want to bring their wives on a "real" surf trip without all the "real" hardships and logistics. Guys who are surfers at heart, but decided a long time ago to take on other responsibilities and can't dissappear for months at a time. These guys don't count. In Bryan's world, only the bums in the feral camps who "only get to surf Cloudbreak on Saturday" count.
Guys like Bryan have this nostalgic idea of what a "soul surfer" is, and everyone else, it seems, can just go to hell. "IF YOU CAN'T COMMIT, YOU AIN"T LEGIT!"........What a bunch bull$hit.
Tavarua is this amazing anomaly because you can still go there with just your friends, surf great waves, and not have to worry about the hassles associated with everywhere else in the world. AND IT IS ONLY ONE PLACE! ONE!!! And anyone who saves his pennies can go.
I just got back from GLand last week and there are now 3 camps, and we had the special treat of having 2 pro surfer photo crews there. I know places in French Polynesia that $hit on Tavarua, but I would never return there with friends or the locals would kill me. And we all dream of bringing our girls on a "romantic" sail through the Mentawais, but in reality, we'd all end up single.
That's why Tavarua is brilliant.
World class surf. World class comfort. World class local conciousness.
I'm sorry, but I stood in the quad of the new K-12 school that the resort built in the village, and listened to hundreds of students in their school uniforms proudly sing their national anthem and I thought, "I hope I give back to the world like that some day." Little did I know I was just a "pig", a "thug", and "corporate" sellout, raping the Fijian people by getting a couple of barrels.
Lighten up Bryan... this ain't Vietnam.
EQ
You see, the problem with guys like Bryan is they only see the world from their own very narrow, virulent, frame of mind. Guys like Bryan don't care about guys who have jobs. Guys who have families. Guys who bust their asses to run small businesses and only have a two week vacation every year. Guys who might want to bring their wives on a "real" surf trip without all the "real" hardships and logistics. Guys who are surfers at heart, but decided a long time ago to take on other responsibilities and can't dissappear for months at a time. These guys don't count. In Bryan's world, only the bums in the feral camps who "only get to surf Cloudbreak on Saturday" count.
Guys like Bryan have this nostalgic idea of what a "soul surfer" is, and everyone else, it seems, can just go to hell. "IF YOU CAN'T COMMIT, YOU AIN"T LEGIT!"........What a bunch bull$hit.
Tavarua is this amazing anomaly because you can still go there with just your friends, surf great waves, and not have to worry about the hassles associated with everywhere else in the world. AND IT IS ONLY ONE PLACE! ONE!!! And anyone who saves his pennies can go.
I just got back from GLand last week and there are now 3 camps, and we had the special treat of having 2 pro surfer photo crews there. I know places in French Polynesia that $hit on Tavarua, but I would never return there with friends or the locals would kill me. And we all dream of bringing our girls on a "romantic" sail through the Mentawais, but in reality, we'd all end up single.
That's why Tavarua is brilliant.
World class surf. World class comfort. World class local conciousness.
I'm sorry, but I stood in the quad of the new K-12 school that the resort built in the village, and listened to hundreds of students in their school uniforms proudly sing their national anthem and I thought, "I hope I give back to the world like that some day." Little did I know I was just a "pig", a "thug", and "corporate" sellout, raping the Fijian people by getting a couple of barrels.
Lighten up Bryan... this ain't Vietnam.
EQ