Need some input. What is the preference of potential participants in the KSUSA Titles and World Titles?
Would you rather surf a classic point break with kelp and mostly glassy conditions (think Pleasure Point and Steamers Lane) without legal authority to clear the water, but with local "water patrols" that should keep 98% of the riff-raff out of the way.
OR
Would you rather surf a decent beach break that blows out most afternoons (think Huntington Beach or Oceanside) with the water cleared by the lifeguards and other authorities.
Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Quality versus privacy re:World Titles and KSUSA Titles
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DarcyM
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where oh where?
Personally, given all of the factors and trying to give each it's due consideration, I'd prefer the higher quality break (even though it means cold water) and take the gamble on the water patrol.
The negatives of the water patrol being that there's no guarantee the water will clear (as last year showed) particularly if the surf is anywhere from decent to epic. But, even with a few stand-ups out in the water we can hope that they'd respect the contestants and stay out of the way. And depending on the aggressiveness of the water patrol, they may or may not enforce that unilaterally, especially if their buddies are out in the water. There's also the risk that an overly-aggressive stance on our part will sour the community on our presence, and kill the chances for repeat visits, or just create bad blood all around.
The positives, which nudges it for me personally, are the increased chances of being able to surf real quality waves all day long with only a few other people out in the water. To me, this is the real allure of contest surfing. I can surf crappy beach break any day, but a classic, glassy point break is something I've always dreamed about. Of course, there can be crappy waves (weak and mushy) there too, and your local beach break can turn out some mega clean days as well. What are the odds? Hard to say.
And then consider, which is a better test of the rider's full range of ability? The thing about SoCal beach breaks is that they become a test of a whole different set of surfing skills than a perfect set-up point break. Is this what the World Contest is all about? Is it the kneelo who surfs flawless waves perfectly? Or is ithe kneelo who can surf anything and make it look good the one we aspire to emulate and celebrate?
There's a lot to consider folks, a lot of elements involved in what to show the World. Which is a better forum to promote/expand/inspire/celebrate our sport?
and Dan -
we'd do Trestles if we could, but it's way out of our budget at this time.
The negatives of the water patrol being that there's no guarantee the water will clear (as last year showed) particularly if the surf is anywhere from decent to epic. But, even with a few stand-ups out in the water we can hope that they'd respect the contestants and stay out of the way. And depending on the aggressiveness of the water patrol, they may or may not enforce that unilaterally, especially if their buddies are out in the water. There's also the risk that an overly-aggressive stance on our part will sour the community on our presence, and kill the chances for repeat visits, or just create bad blood all around.
The positives, which nudges it for me personally, are the increased chances of being able to surf real quality waves all day long with only a few other people out in the water. To me, this is the real allure of contest surfing. I can surf crappy beach break any day, but a classic, glassy point break is something I've always dreamed about. Of course, there can be crappy waves (weak and mushy) there too, and your local beach break can turn out some mega clean days as well. What are the odds? Hard to say.
And then consider, which is a better test of the rider's full range of ability? The thing about SoCal beach breaks is that they become a test of a whole different set of surfing skills than a perfect set-up point break. Is this what the World Contest is all about? Is it the kneelo who surfs flawless waves perfectly? Or is ithe kneelo who can surf anything and make it look good the one we aspire to emulate and celebrate?
There's a lot to consider folks, a lot of elements involved in what to show the World. Which is a better forum to promote/expand/inspire/celebrate our sport?
and Dan -
we'd do Trestles if we could, but it's way out of our budget at this time.
dm
"Push the button, Max!"
"Push the button, Max!"
Just Curious
What would it cost to do Trestle's (or maybe Church's). What about C Street in Ventura?
For the World's- would anyone be fired up to travel from abroad to surf HB?
For the World's- would anyone be fired up to travel from abroad to surf HB?
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Willy Kelly
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ShaunMurphy
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question
When is the Ksusa and world titles?
and is it like surfer bowl
where it was all ages in one contest
or like different divisions ?
and is it like surfer bowl
where it was all ages in one contest
or like different divisions ?
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albert
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This is a pretty complex issue...
Everyone is going to say we should have it at all kinds of premium breaks, but they wont be able to tell you 'how' to get it done.
Trestles is a great idea, logistically its a nightmare with the walking and what not, but the way to get it is to attend the bidding war that goes on for the beach permits. I think I heard through the grapevine that the NSSA paid somewhere around 50k for the beach permit a few years ago, something tells me kneeboarding doesnt have that kind of flow.
In my opinion, the most important thing is to have a fun event where there is an overall sense of people having a good time.
With that said, its seems to me most of us would prefer to get less hassling from feral locals; people that will likely get a bad opinion of what kneeboarding is all about. At places like Oceanside, we could be able to get beach permits that could last a much longer time than is needed to run the event (i.e. get a 10 day permit for a 6 day event), which would ensure that we could run the event in the best days of that 10 day period. I think that is the best we can do.
I would like to know more of the details though, what brought this doubt up? why are we questioning the decision now? have there been any new developments most of us are not aware of?
Everyone is going to say we should have it at all kinds of premium breaks, but they wont be able to tell you 'how' to get it done.
Trestles is a great idea, logistically its a nightmare with the walking and what not, but the way to get it is to attend the bidding war that goes on for the beach permits. I think I heard through the grapevine that the NSSA paid somewhere around 50k for the beach permit a few years ago, something tells me kneeboarding doesnt have that kind of flow.
In my opinion, the most important thing is to have a fun event where there is an overall sense of people having a good time.
With that said, its seems to me most of us would prefer to get less hassling from feral locals; people that will likely get a bad opinion of what kneeboarding is all about. At places like Oceanside, we could be able to get beach permits that could last a much longer time than is needed to run the event (i.e. get a 10 day permit for a 6 day event), which would ensure that we could run the event in the best days of that 10 day period. I think that is the best we can do.
I would like to know more of the details though, what brought this doubt up? why are we questioning the decision now? have there been any new developments most of us are not aware of?
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southpeakbrad
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Tom,
My first thoughts are in putting a quality event for the Worlds. I think this is the 1st time in the USA and would be a chance for the US to do a great job. For surfers coming from around the World part of the draw would be surfing in the best conditions possible. The Santa Cruz spots meet those criteria.
To me, the best chances for quality waves would be like you first proposed; 3 days at Pleasure Point and 3 days at Steamers. I think the Nor Cal crew can speak best to the vibe and rude locals and the prospects for a quality event at these very popular spots. If we beefed up the water patrol Pleasure should not be a problem. I've never surfed Steamers so I'm not sure about that.
At the KSUSA Titles last Nov I had two incidents (out of 7 heats) where standups interfered. One time it make no difference, the other time I felt the interference cost me a chance at staying in the Open. But I had a blast overall so I was not really upset at that incident, just frustrated during the heat.
Finally, if the majority of surfers come just because it's the Worlds then the requirement for Santa Cruz would be less important. I'm just thinking about those who have to travel so far.
My first thoughts are in putting a quality event for the Worlds. I think this is the 1st time in the USA and would be a chance for the US to do a great job. For surfers coming from around the World part of the draw would be surfing in the best conditions possible. The Santa Cruz spots meet those criteria.
To me, the best chances for quality waves would be like you first proposed; 3 days at Pleasure Point and 3 days at Steamers. I think the Nor Cal crew can speak best to the vibe and rude locals and the prospects for a quality event at these very popular spots. If we beefed up the water patrol Pleasure should not be a problem. I've never surfed Steamers so I'm not sure about that.
At the KSUSA Titles last Nov I had two incidents (out of 7 heats) where standups interfered. One time it make no difference, the other time I felt the interference cost me a chance at staying in the Open. But I had a blast overall so I was not really upset at that incident, just frustrated during the heat.
Finally, if the majority of surfers come just because it's the Worlds then the requirement for Santa Cruz would be less important. I'm just thinking about those who have to travel so far.
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southpeakbrad
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DarcyM
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Clearing the water
Brad -
what I know about it is that there are certain beaches where having the contest permit actually gives you the legal authority to clear the water. Meaning that the lifeguards can pull people out of the water and issue tickets. This is different from other beaches where you can have water patrol, but have to rely on volutary compliance. The case at Pleasure Point has always been the latter. I'm not sure what it is at the Lane, but I think it is the same.
As much as we would all love to have the contest at Trestles, the cost is too prohibitive unless one of you wins the lotto or cashes in your 401 to donate 50K to the KSUSA.
what I know about it is that there are certain beaches where having the contest permit actually gives you the legal authority to clear the water. Meaning that the lifeguards can pull people out of the water and issue tickets. This is different from other beaches where you can have water patrol, but have to rely on volutary compliance. The case at Pleasure Point has always been the latter. I'm not sure what it is at the Lane, but I think it is the same.
As much as we would all love to have the contest at Trestles, the cost is too prohibitive unless one of you wins the lotto or cashes in your 401 to donate 50K to the KSUSA.
dm
"Push the button, Max!"
"Push the button, Max!"
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splashy
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I think the answer for this is pretty simple.
To have a contest and judge people on their surfing then everyone has to have the same opportunity to get waves.
Having non-competitors in the water taking waves, hassling for them and dropping in will change the equation.... I mean, just picture yourself trying to mentally prepare for a heat, and then having to add to the equation - do I drop in on a stand-up who has just caught the best wave all heat and then possibly have to have ap unch up with him?
...and what happens during the event if someone takes off on the best wave of the heat and get's dropped in on by a non-competitor? How do you judge that? If that competitor then protests (and quite rightly, they should), how do you then call it? And who decides how we make those calls?
Having surfed in contests where they couldn't clear the water, all I've got to say is that it just gets ugly and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
For the sake of being fair you have to be able to clear the water and offer competitors the best chance to catch scoring waves, otherwise you run the risk of your event becoming a joke with no legitimacy.
What happens if the best surfer or defending title holder (not necessarily the same thing, of course) of the event gets run over in the first heat by a non-competitor and injured and taken out of the event? What happens if it is in a semi? What happens if it is the final? It doesn't matter when, but is it REALLY a title if the BEST guy is taken out by an unfair aspect?
EXACTLY the same can be said if the same thing happened to the worst surfer, or any other surfer in the event.
You HAVE to be able to clear the water. You HAVE to be able to do it legally. That is part of the responsibility of the contest organiser to the competitor - to provide them with an arena where the only thing they have to worry about is performing in the waves of the day. Part of what makes a good competitor is being able to surf in whatever conditions arise - whether it be the morning offshore barrels, or afternoon onshore slop.
Having the BEST waves is a luxury, having the BEST waves POSSIBLE and being able to clear the water to give competitors the best chance is a neccessity.
If I wanted to surf the best waves possible I'd spend about $1200 to go to Indonesia and sit amongst the sun and line-up and get barrelled all day.
If I want to surf the World Titles I'll spend more than twice that amount to go to the US and EXPECT to be able to compete in a clear line-up. I don't expect excellent waves. But I'd certainly see it as a waste of time and money if I got there after an 18 hour flight and heaps of $$$$ and had the squabble with idiots in the contest area just for the opportunity to get a score on the board
To have a contest and judge people on their surfing then everyone has to have the same opportunity to get waves.
Having non-competitors in the water taking waves, hassling for them and dropping in will change the equation.... I mean, just picture yourself trying to mentally prepare for a heat, and then having to add to the equation - do I drop in on a stand-up who has just caught the best wave all heat and then possibly have to have ap unch up with him?
...and what happens during the event if someone takes off on the best wave of the heat and get's dropped in on by a non-competitor? How do you judge that? If that competitor then protests (and quite rightly, they should), how do you then call it? And who decides how we make those calls?
Having surfed in contests where they couldn't clear the water, all I've got to say is that it just gets ugly and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
For the sake of being fair you have to be able to clear the water and offer competitors the best chance to catch scoring waves, otherwise you run the risk of your event becoming a joke with no legitimacy.
What happens if the best surfer or defending title holder (not necessarily the same thing, of course) of the event gets run over in the first heat by a non-competitor and injured and taken out of the event? What happens if it is in a semi? What happens if it is the final? It doesn't matter when, but is it REALLY a title if the BEST guy is taken out by an unfair aspect?
EXACTLY the same can be said if the same thing happened to the worst surfer, or any other surfer in the event.
You HAVE to be able to clear the water. You HAVE to be able to do it legally. That is part of the responsibility of the contest organiser to the competitor - to provide them with an arena where the only thing they have to worry about is performing in the waves of the day. Part of what makes a good competitor is being able to surf in whatever conditions arise - whether it be the morning offshore barrels, or afternoon onshore slop.
Having the BEST waves is a luxury, having the BEST waves POSSIBLE and being able to clear the water to give competitors the best chance is a neccessity.
If I wanted to surf the best waves possible I'd spend about $1200 to go to Indonesia and sit amongst the sun and line-up and get barrelled all day.
If I want to surf the World Titles I'll spend more than twice that amount to go to the US and EXPECT to be able to compete in a clear line-up. I don't expect excellent waves. But I'd certainly see it as a waste of time and money if I got there after an 18 hour flight and heaps of $$$$ and had the squabble with idiots in the contest area just for the opportunity to get a score on the board
One crowded hour of glorious life is worth an age without a name - so stay tubed!
Well said, I have to agree with splashy. If the organizers of the event cannot provide a even playing field then some contestants might say whats the point of competing. Would'nt a competitor rather be frustrated at oneself for not performing well during the contest than be frustrated at non competitors for dropping in or getting in the way while trying to perform a manouver?
Granted, during the contest, part of the day may see the lineup empty of non competitors in the contest area BUT what if the surf is pumping? Unless there is a legal way to remove the non contestants I'm afraid the lineup will include non competitors.
I watched some of the contest at pleasure point last Nov. from the cliff and was bummed that there was so many non contestants in the area. Just an observation, not putting the blame on anyone.
This year make a point of choosing a wave where the lineup can be controlled, providing an enviornment where the contestants ONLY have to be concerned with performing to the best of thier abilities.
EVEN if it is at a beachbreak, doesnt have to be the standard H.B. or O'side, what about ocean beach in san fransisco?
Granted, during the contest, part of the day may see the lineup empty of non competitors in the contest area BUT what if the surf is pumping? Unless there is a legal way to remove the non contestants I'm afraid the lineup will include non competitors.
I watched some of the contest at pleasure point last Nov. from the cliff and was bummed that there was so many non contestants in the area. Just an observation, not putting the blame on anyone.
This year make a point of choosing a wave where the lineup can be controlled, providing an enviornment where the contestants ONLY have to be concerned with performing to the best of thier abilities.
EVEN if it is at a beachbreak, doesnt have to be the standard H.B. or O'side, what about ocean beach in san fransisco?
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albert
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I would like to pose another question, as it seems pretty obvious where this thread is going.
What do you do about the inherent whinning that comes from competitors that believe the waves to be too crappy to hold a world titles event?
I seem to remember at one point in time there was one high profile competitor at a worlds event (no names given
) that was going to boycott the event because the waves were too crappy, and was VERY vocal about it.
Think about that one!
What do you do about the inherent whinning that comes from competitors that believe the waves to be too crappy to hold a world titles event?
I seem to remember at one point in time there was one high profile competitor at a worlds event (no names given
) that was going to boycott the event because the waves were too crappy, and was VERY vocal about it.Think about that one!