Australian Champion - Discussion

This forum is designed to keep the competitive spirit alive and well as we look at future and past contests.

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Kev
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Post by Kev »

Shelfbreak wrote:... Simon Anderson is to blame. ...
yeah !!
bloody anderson
:D

so why is BB so intensly popular
especially with kids
apart from the convenience and price and durability and postability and ... and ... and ...
Dicky Beach near the caravan park during the school holidays,
turn and dig in for a take off
:shock: and you are greeted with a sea of kids on BBs all moving with the water as one mass ... if you go, someone will get hurt

Shelfbreak knows what I'm talking about

if you could get half of the Drop Knee'ers among them onto a Kneeboard then there would be a huge juniors comp

Perhaps Greg's One Equipment format would have life IF you could attract some of the young BB'ers across ... a very small soft format single shape - single fin - top 16 comp
8)
If I had the money to fund it to the extent of the Kerry Paker Pijama Cricket and the top 16 did in fact turn up to all 7 events ...
(one in each state and NT ... and ACT in a wave pool)
???
:oops:

would the winner be the Aust Champ ... IF it were not sanctioned by Surf Aust ?


silly yes
but it does show how complicated this subject can be
our WA friends are so far away
and that's just the way it is
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Post by jamie »

hey shelfbreak
I didnt intend to rock the boat of what sounds like a good thing you have going on.
I just couldnt fathom why a queenslander would be concerned about guys from WA being left out of the Aussie kneelo titles in future when they havent shown any interest for a long time in being involved.
I assumed that some Queenslanders felt PI was too far away as semi permanent site going forward.
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Post by knee_boarder »

Kev wrote:
Shelfbreak wrote:... Simon Anderson is to blame. ...
so why is BB so intensly popular
especially with kids
apart from the convenience and price and durability and postability and ... and ... and ...
and the coverage in the bodyboarding magazines which shows how radical and cutting edge the sport is too.

The latest issue of Three Sixty (UK bodyboarding mag) has pictures of tow-in bodyboarders at some completely nuts spots, tow-out bodyboarding (using a winch) which enables 10ft airs off a 1ft wave and pictures of British bodyboarders pulling world class moves.

Whatever we say, the coverage of kneeboarding in magazines is sparse and kneeboarding is not regarded as cutting edge anymore.

Whilst I and many others of my age started bodyboarding and then moved to kneeboarding (over 20years ago, when bodyboarding wasn't so radical as it is now), why should the a good bodyboarder switch?

They can ride just as heavy waves as us (if not heavier as they don't have to worry about the board hitting them so much), the top guys are pulling totally insane moves and the board design has got better and better.

I don't see any massive migration to kneeboarding from bodyboarding unless some radical new board design/technology makes kneeboarding the cutting edge sport is was during the '70's.

Kneeboarding has always been a minority sport and will always be I feel, I just hope enough people decide to switch like I did.
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Post by Shelfbreak »

No worries Jamie - regarding the tyranny of distance maybe KSA could consider the international soccer approach (where away goals are worth more). So a New South Welshman would earn more points towrds the overall KSA title than a Victorian if they were both knocked out at the same point of the PI comp.

Kev, knee_boarder - maybe an open invitation comp kneelo or drop knee style permitted, impartial judges and decent cash prizes. Confront the alternative rather than trying coerce them into trying our method ?
Shelfbreak
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Post by crox »

Slightly off topic....but picking up on a point made by a few people about the static state of kneeboarding as far as the next generation goes - this is from the UK forum -

I just snipped this from a recent post on the KSUSA site -

"Maybe i`m wrong, but i can`t see kneeboarding getting bigger.
Unless you`re a reasonable k`boarder at your local break, there seems to be more of a negative stigma
attached to kneelos than when most of us were kids in the 70`s and 80`s. This would be greater in Sydney
than many other parts of the country, making it awkward for any kids who don`t want grief from their friends".

I think the reason for this is that back then kneeboarders were at the cutting edge of design.....George Greenough & others had revolutionised the way we surfed & footboarders couldn't go the places that kneeboarders went.

If we can't create some new tracks we will forever [to the average surfer] be a poor relation.


On this thread - http://kerakraft.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1228297950/0
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Post by crippler »

Oh god i`ve been depressed before but this sort of crap is enough to drive me to drink,kneeboarding is easily at the most radical stage its ever been at checkout chayne,troy, albert ,hamish,simon, gav,mark,pom,matt regularly popping of the lip manouvre`s of world class surfin calibre the only things groms care about is whats cool and the surfers above are capable of impressing anyone the problem is if a grom was to go watch a comp anywhere round the world they would not see this quality but a bunch of slightly weird laughing half drunk old dudes in speedo`s laying down some stylish arms up fat backs oh so cool to me but to a grom no reason to switch crafts.I just wonder what a pro edited 30 minute hilight video of the tops guys top clips,pits and punts and hassled into one of these free dvd`s found strapped to the front of every surfmag i eva see would do for the numbers of groms all of a sudden mentioning kneeboard in conversation over a glass of rocket fuel.

Kids know cool man so make it look cool as cool as we can
Check ya halfmen
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Post by Stanley »

Could someone explain the American system or any other country's system for that matter and how it works.

the divisions and how you get the American champ.

As we might get a few diamonds of information that we can borrow to improve our system

Cheers

Stan :D :D :D
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Post by jamie »

Hey stan
not sure if this is the info you were looking for re the US system.
Bruce and i both liked the way that KSUSA organises there events.
They seem to concentrate on working with sponsors and on fundraising activities, they do this before and during the event. They contract out the running of the event to the state or area based surfing association.
So the guys who work at other surfing events, both amatuer and pro then work at the kneelo comp.
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ross
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Post by ross »

I've got a couple of ideas. Any critisism is constructive, so don't take it personally.

I think there are distinct advantages with continuing to decide the Australian kneeboard champion under the Surfing Australia "umbrella".

Like it or not, kneeboard riding will need money if it is going to exist in a competitive sense. Imagine for a moment, if the rule that the KSA has in place for world title qualification (ie a minimum of two KSA contests to be entered before eligability) was extended to include the local regional titles.
Yeah ok it's another little hoop to jump through, but reality is it would be the only world title qualifier that takes place in your backyard. All of a sudden the number of entrants would swell by at least those who are aiming towards a world title. Hell even allocate KSA points toward regional, state and national placings, all of a sudden everyone who gives a rats arse about that is turning up.

I've heard murmurs that Surfing Australia aren't interested in us any more. Now if this is because of our declining participation and subsequent lack of financial contribution (through entry fees etc), we need to start fronting up to these things again.


The benefits of this?
It puts us kneeboarders back in the conciousness of the surfing community as a whole. It creates far greater exposure to an actual audience ( not just our wives , who grew sick of watching us surf two weeks into the courting stage of the relationship 25 years ago) , not to mention surfing industry players who help organise and participate in these events.
With this audience and the attention of the industry, comes sponsorship potential.

From a business perspective we are not visible to many outside of our own sphere. So there is no incentive to throw money in our direction. If you had a choice would you advertise your business in a medium that recieves no attention from the market you intend to target? Of course not.

Another huge plus is to have the opportunity to surf in front of acredited judges from outside the kneeboarding world.
They are not aware of who we all like, who we don't all like, who said what on the internet and who the best bloke is. They are judging what is going on in the heat in front of them. From my experience Surfing Australia judges are perfectly capable of deciding heat winners. Good surfing looks good.

Training and paying judges from our own ranks doesn't seem like the best way to get an impartial judgement on a heat.

Benefit number three, is prestige and respect. When kneeboarders were more involved with the regional/state/nationals and further along the world amatuer contests we were given the forum to gain respect from the rest of the surfing community. They got to see the best kneeboarders in the country do their stuff .

A few times the Australian team campaign was often won on the back of the lone kneelo in the team holding back the opposition with a finals victory. The kneeboard representitives at those contests were able to meet and befriend industry players and former/aspiring professional surfers.

As grown men you might say "big deal" about being involved with these guys, but I'll tell you from experience that getting to meet and travel with guys who will one day be famous surfers or former legends is pretty fucken cool( there is that word again crippler??), when your a grommet. (remember Budgies original comments about hanging with Branson etc back in WA?). More on grommets later.

Government grants are another possibility that may be realised through a closer afiliation with Surfing Australia, through SA which is a government body will enable us to push up and coming talent through their media and contacts in government. Money is allocated to support young athletes in sport by our government. Aside from that not many of you will remember that Rod Smith and myself were offered the opportunity to train at newcastle institute of sport in 1990. I was unable to attend, but i can tell you he left me for dead competitivley after six months of training at the institute. Specialised training another benefit.

Lastly,venue. Having our Australian Champion decided at the Australian Surmasters could give our best guys the chance to win the title at a venue we could never hope to secure under our own steam. I'm sure we'd all like to win something surfing 8 foot Margaret River, Bells, Jakes point or Snapper rocks. All of which have hosted Aussie titles.

And wouldn't that be the greatest incentive of all. Surfing the likes of Snapper with four blokes in the water for twenty minutes :wink:


Long story short, if we front up to Surfing Australia regional titles en masse
, they get revenue from us, we gain all the benefits listed above that are not going to be available through retracting our selves from the surfing universe.

I think its a shame that we are backing away from surfing in general, gradually becoming a backyard celebration of mediocrity, where wanting to surf well and win heats is frowned upon over comraderie and teamsmanship. Those things are nice but they are holding our best guys back and surfing isn't a team sport.



A little bit off topic. In regards to grommets, i think we dropped the ball along time ago. As crippler has said and i have said in the past, grommets don't do anything that isn't cool. Grommets are influenced by people in their early 20's. Anyone who manages to ride a kneeboard pretty well from their late teens into their twentys has had some sucsess in influencing a friend or local kid into riding one.

There is a distinct lack of guys in that age group in kneeboarding, so unless grommets start thinking old people are cool we will continue to shrink in numbers . Not much we can do about that one.
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Post by hart »

ross wrote:
A little bit off topic. In regards to grommets, i think we dropped the ball along time ago. As crippler has said and i have said in the past, grommets don't do anything that isn't cool. Grommets are influenced by people in their early 20's.

There is a distinct lack of guys in that age group in kneeboarding, so unless grommets start thinking old people are cool we will continue to shrink in numbers
:)

Now there's another good post on this thread

:!:

Well said and well thought-out :idea:

hart

Which leads me to think..why we decided to ignore our grass-roots entry-level (ie Regional Titles) in the first place :?:

IDEA :?:

With all the Kneeboard Clubs now around Australia..has anyone thought to include one of the club's "POINTSCORES" as their Regional Title entry?

That would mean we would have numbers in Newcastle, Sydney and Wollongong and (now) Victoria (with only Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia) to bring up to speed

Furthermore, imagine if entry to a KSA Professional Event meant we had to qualify through the Regional Titles to start with?

I guess it would mean we would have Kneeboarders on the beach in every city that participated in a Surfing Australia Contest (Aus Government endorsement)..along side every other 'surfer' who participated in that event..kneeboarder or otherwise

Without it being an isolated, individualised Kneeboard exclusive thing which has seemingly taken our sport away from everyday surfing

:arrow:

meaning people under 20 aren't even seeing it :shock:
"Mary Mary, Mother Mother,

You and me and..

God the Father.."

Richard Butler

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Post by Tony Wales »

Ross, why the bloody hell aren't you involved in running the sport? Excellent post, well thought out and logical The key points you hit were:

* Surfing Australia credabilty and professional event structure
* Putting kneeboarding back in front of the surfing mainstream (peers, media & industry).
* Prestige and respect. No one gets to see quailty kneeboarding these days.

Ross, you've taken us 95% of the way to what I think is a logical answer. Bruce has taken it another 2% with his national event structure thought process. Jamie has added another 2% with the USA model. Keep going guys you're getting bloody close!!
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Post by mFox »

Tony Wales wrote:Ross, why the bloody hell aren't you involved in running the sport? Excellent post, well thought out and logical The key points you hit were:

* Surfing Australia credabilty and professional event structure
* Putting kneeboarding back in front of the surfing mainstream (peers, media & industry).
* Prestige and respect. No one gets to see quailty kneeboarding these days.

Ross, you've taken us 95% of the way to what I think is a logical answer. Bruce has taken it another 2% with his national event structure thought process. Jamie has added another 2% with the USA model. Keep going guys you're getting bloody close!!
Way to go guys!!!! this is what it's about!!! Well put Ross, Bruce and Jamie.
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Post by budgie »

CONGRATULATIONS
it is great you 3 guys have come to a conclusion.

Well Done!

Now you just have to put a motion to the members and get a vote on it and we have a new format or not.

Members?

Voting rights?

Unanimous?


FAT CHANCE BOYS UNLESS YOU HAVE ...................?


PS I have stopped sulking and am extremely impressed with the discussion despite some poison arrows aimed at my heart

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Post by ross »

Budgie 8) :lol: I think I'm picking up what your puting down here. I'm already a naughtie bad egg , so there is no chance I've got any of the "...........?" you speak of :lol: .
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Post by jdc »

Ross

given that steen and slats consistently capture "state of the art" kneeboarding along the "below sydney coast" are there youngsters in these areas inspired by albert and the simpsons et al and taking up kneeboarding?

When I was young I read australian surfing world laping up articles by derek hynd featuring the young occy, gday, jim banks, mike newling, kong etc.

i saw a kneelo at torquay and another at kennet river and took up kneeboarding.

I was immersed in "stand up" media but swayed by good kneelos free surfing at local breaks.

if kids see albert and the simpsons at their local and buy a kneeboard then there is a life beyond us for the kneeboard perhaps.


aka dorje
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