contest judging

[john -]

no names

no personal controversies!!!

What were the judges scoring on in Phillip Island

What were they scoring on in Santa Cruz


Were the punters or or even


dorje

[albert]

the head judge made sure everyone was aware of the scoring criteria, even taped it to the table in front of every judge.

In Phillip Island it was simple... going big and making it was gonna score huge... one thousand weak turns to the beach scored nothing.

In my age division final I had three waves, two of which I rode for a really long time, did a couple of turns but nothing critical (got 1's on each wave), The third one had a little pocket where I did a turn on the critical part of the wave (I didnt think it was all that great, but definately better than my other two waves), then I hit the whitewater as vertical as I could. (got a 9). Still lost the final, but had fun...

When I was judging, this criteria was even further enforced, if someone scored something too high for having done turns the head judge would say "now try to think about the quality of the maneuver, did the surfer put the board on rail in a critical part of the wave..." this would typically be enough for judges to reconsider their score... I typically had a pretty low scale (i.e. it would take a lot for me to throw high scores) but when I did throw 9's it was typically for one maneuver waves (because the maneuver deserved it).

[Scott]

We had an interesting presentation by the head judge at the Pleasure Point contest to all of us on hand after the first day competition. He is part of a crew that has been judging footboarders, kneelos, bodyboarders, longboarders, etc. for many years. What he told us they would look for was especially:

a. an overall approach that took whatever energy the wave offered and turned into something strong. Therefore, the biggest wave might not get the best score if the surfer didn't extract a corresponding big amount of energy and do something great with it. Interesting concept...

b. the bottom turn would be the key to the higher scoring waves: really gouge off the bottom and then hopefully rip open the top was especially what they were looking for. He really stressed the importance of the bottom turns to set up the rest of the manuevers.

c. surfing with speed and under control was emphasized to a lesser degree.

The guys who made it to the finals of the highest Open division turned out to be the best lip-whackers among us.

On a personal level, I learned later how much they were committed to this. Two days later I had my best heat in the quarterfinals when I had three quick tubes/coverups on three different waves. I made each one and went on to do more moves on those waves. When I was able to view the judges' sheets later, I learned only one of those waves drew a score above 5.5. I lost moving up to the semis by .5 total points to the guy above me in scoring. Turned out the one so-so off-the-lip I fell on would have, if successfully landed, advanced me into the next heat.

[Xmas]

Sorry dorge but......... I must have been watching a different heat to the judges in the Masters final at PI - and - no - i was not in the final - but i did see one of the greatest kneeboarders of all time come first with daylight second - or so I thought .

[john -]

Hey Xmas

a little controversy is always useful otherwise things would get a bit ho hum

[albert]

The guys who made it to the finals of the highest Open division turned out to be the best lip-whackers among us.

Two days later I had my best heat in the quarterfinals when I had three quick tubes/coverups on three different waves. I made each one and went on to do more moves on those waves. .

Now, the extent of what i know about pleasure point is limited to the pictures I have seen on this site. HOwever, maybe those sections you were going for cover ups would have advanced you into the next round had you whacked them??? In the PI contest, if the competitor merely did a cover up (i.e. water hit him while inside the tube) as opposed to a real barrel (i.e. come in and out of it dry) it was a serious distinction... I remember on one heat where I saw this, I believe the surfer got a cover up and did not much else (I gave him a 2) every other judge gave him 6+, the head judge asked me why and I said it was a head dip (the head judge actually wanted me to say it was a head dip so I would agree with him and go against the judgement of everyone else on the judging panel)... Thats why, the way I see it, in a heat, if its not gonna be a good tube, I dont even bother, try whacking the crap out of a section and it will yield a much higher score rewarding the commitment

[Tom Linn]

Albert- I think you are dead on. Big smacks count way higher than a "head dip". More speed, more commitment, more risk, more exciting to watch. Generally, you can smack the lip in the same places you might get a head dip.

Now, a dry sucking disappearing tube ride is a whole different thing. But none of those were to be found at Pleasure Point...............Tom

[splashy]

Hey Xmas

...for those of us who were not there... wot you talking about?

[Steeno]

simon and bouldy

[albert]

The kind of judging mentioned above will lead to too much rocker, too soft rails, too turned in fins. All aimed at making that one big whack. (whooppee). It's obvious that it's already evily infiltrated our surfing.

And that mindset aint going to help kneeboarding one little bit.

[Steeno]

Hey Andrew
umm thanks, I think

and I agree with you, and I have said this in another post, that there are different boards for different reasons, and you have kindly pointed that out. I had this discussion with Bruce, about different board design, I think we, or i was calling it aggressive and mellow, neither is right or wrong, but both have different approaches to surfing and require different equipment design to be surfed that way. Nothing wrong with either one, and it does depend on what you want out of your surfing.

[john -]

Hey ho

purley from the point of debate and the kids in my class are too wired for summer and christmas so whats the point in planning my day too much

if their is nothing wrong with mellow and nothing wrong with aggressive
why all the kerfuffle in regards to the whole judgeing lip smaker v floater stuff at all

the one big wack as a point scoring thing V a combination of smaller moves is topical

perhaps its quality over quantity - but whose got the book on quality

or perhaps there needs to be judges well disposed to each style

or perhaps some of us should just from now on bury or heads at comp time since its been indentified as probably not the mode to enthuse others to the persuit

free video worthy kneeboarding for the discerning


Hi Wax - or is it Icarus


dorje

[splashy]

Like everything else, judging evolves and changes with time.

If you are going to "score" people against each other, then you need a judging criteria....I line that is a starting point to be able to compare apples with oranges (I love a good fruit salad).

It is up to the individual surfer to find out what that criteria is - either through a briefing or watching the surfing and see who gets through - and then go out and surf in a contest to that criteria. The broadest critera is "The surfer who catches the biggest waves, takes off in the most critical area, performs the biggest moves in the most critical part of the wave for the greatest length of the wave shall be deemed the winner"... or something like that.... but then you gotta add some specifics in to keep it all clear.

Thankfully that criteria is always changing. The most obvious one was years ago when all the kneelos at the Australian titles were called together and told that 360s would not be judged as a functional move (this was in PCs time). This them evolved into the pro-comps. I was a super-grom at the time and 360s were my primo move and it was no longer of any value, so that pushed me to go and learn other moves.

From memory barrel rolls and lip-flips were treated the same way - scored highly at first, and then scored harshly if they were not done functionally. I can't remember the last time I saw one in a contest.

And it is because of the difference between free-surfing and competitions that we need a thriving free-surfing culture as well as a competition culture and allow them to support and nuture each other.

....apples and oranges..... (hmmmm, I wonder what is for breakfast.....)

[red]

Speaking purely for myself, I know that comp surfing drives me to new limits. I spend a lot of free surf time trying to do the hardest, most radical clean turn I can (in search of a single perfect turn). Mostly it's because I like to release my latent aggressive persona in that way. It's also aimed at being able to do something resembling them in contests.

Contests are a window that lets one detect the weaknesses in one's own performance and the strengths in others' - and to learn new things - if you're open to them.

Andrew, I think you're naiive to think that judges (who are, after all, people like you and I) can't see the difference between a crap turn and a good one. Laying the board on a rail or taking air after a lip smack are things that most progressive kneeboarders aspire to in their free surfing. They are also what gets scored in contest surfing, so where's the design dichotomy?

Have a look at the PI vid (look at the frame grabs at www.kneeboardsurfingaustralia.com) and then tell me that the boards are not performing to their utmost limits on the speed/manoeuverability curve. Sure you can get boards that go faster or that turn sharper, but aren't we all trying for that elusive G-spot that optimises the two (whether fee or contest surfing)?