I learnt long ago (the hard way) never to put much stock in what observers on the beach say. Their opinions about who went well are just that. The only opinion that counts is that of the judges (for better or worse). I think we do people a disservice telling them they ripped a heat before the results come out (or even after). Say they surfed well, sure, but stay away from quantifying it unless you've got a pen in your hand .
3.30 am start tomorrow. 4 boards in the car. Some new ideas about fin setups. Hope I beat the crowds.. Reverend Horton Heat doing his thang on the stereo. Hope the neighbours have the TV up loud.
contest judging
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splashy
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:14 pm
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
To be able to judge competitors to a finite degree where you can separate individuals to 100th of a point takes a LOT of undestanding and knowledge of a sport - no matter what that sport.Steenos wrote:so after reading all this it seems, judges need to be kneelos to appreciate our sport and competant kneelos at that, to understand what they just saw a competitor complete and its kneeboarding difficulty.
I - for one - cannot confidently say that about very many stand-up judges - but they certainly must be out there.
In saying that, I cannot confidently say that many kneelos could competently judge a kneeboard contest and be able to separate everyone to 100th of a point (10 point scoring system to 1 decimal place).
But let's just say that there WAS DEFINTELY laughing and sniping fom the judge's tower at the '02 Worlds. Does that show a lack of respect? For me it does.
To my mind, we either need trained kneelos, or some VERY experience water-men (no matter what they ride) as trained judges.
....and I can't let the comments regarding Stewie go without comment....
I can't remember the heat - but living in Queensland and surfing with Stewie just about every weekend I can tell you this - it wasn't the judging that stopped Stewie going to contests. It was the sheer self-destructive nature, cynisim, opportunism and lack of a fair go from a small number of the kneeboard population (small, but enough) that went on after the event. (...and having been close to the event but not an organiser in the lead-up, during and after the event I can honestly say that 99.9% of the bitching is absolute crap...)
The guy is a competitive animal, rips and is one of the nicest guys you can get in the water (unless you are beating him in a heat) who has consitently played by the rules.... but I doubt you'll ever see him in a comp again.
One crowded hour of glorious life is worth an age without a name - so stay tubed!
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OOK
- Grom (25 or less posts to site)
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 10:34 am
- Location: Phillip Island
Good discussion guys watched the open final at the island it was a bummer about the waves but I saw Gavin Colman do some incredibly impressive surfing that deserved at least an 8.
He took off inside on a 4 to 5 footer (one of the biggest waves of the final) and as he took off the whole thing closed out way down the line.
He did a big white water climb long floater along the top off the white water after it bounced so it was bigger than the original wave he then proceeded to surf the white water for about 70 metres with off the tops and floaters.
It only scored 1s & 2s because according to the judging criteria the wave did not have a pocket and there was no critical section of the wave.
But it was still the most impressive surfing on a total close out I have seen for a while.
OOK
He took off inside on a 4 to 5 footer (one of the biggest waves of the final) and as he took off the whole thing closed out way down the line.
He did a big white water climb long floater along the top off the white water after it bounced so it was bigger than the original wave he then proceeded to surf the white water for about 70 metres with off the tops and floaters.
It only scored 1s & 2s because according to the judging criteria the wave did not have a pocket and there was no critical section of the wave.
But it was still the most impressive surfing on a total close out I have seen for a while.
OOK
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splashy
- Ripper (more than 100 posts)
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:14 pm
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
OOK - that's a good point.
It's takes lots of skill and energy to surf the whitewater like it is the open face, yet it is not considered in the criteria.......
....but, then again, just thinking about it now, it is probably covered under "wave selection" - ie, don't catch waves that close out....
...makes ya think, though
It's takes lots of skill and energy to surf the whitewater like it is the open face, yet it is not considered in the criteria.......
....but, then again, just thinking about it now, it is probably covered under "wave selection" - ie, don't catch waves that close out....
...makes ya think, though
One crowded hour of glorious life is worth an age without a name - so stay tubed!
Sounds as though we have to formalise judging criteria for KS.
There are only a handful of kneeboarders in the world who can actually ride the foam top to bottom. That makes it a very hard thing to do, so it should be scored accordingly.
I judged some mal heats in our club contest. They now have a combination of short and long-board criteria. As I understood it, longboard stuff (clean nose rides, walking the plank, etc.) equalled shortboard moves like reentries. There were a couple of longboard moves where the advice given by the experts was that they were really hard to do (and easy to miss for a neophite like myself). It's also impossible to get an excellent ride without a combination of long- and short-board moves.
While most kneeboarders are in favour of power shortboarding moves, this has come at the expense of tricks like 360's and difficult stuff like top-to-bottom foam climbs and hitting the foam in cutbacks. I guess it's about education. If a move is beyond the experience of a judge then they won't know how difficult it is to do (or how to score it) unless they have some guidance.
There are only a handful of kneeboarders in the world who can actually ride the foam top to bottom. That makes it a very hard thing to do, so it should be scored accordingly.
I judged some mal heats in our club contest. They now have a combination of short and long-board criteria. As I understood it, longboard stuff (clean nose rides, walking the plank, etc.) equalled shortboard moves like reentries. There were a couple of longboard moves where the advice given by the experts was that they were really hard to do (and easy to miss for a neophite like myself). It's also impossible to get an excellent ride without a combination of long- and short-board moves.
While most kneeboarders are in favour of power shortboarding moves, this has come at the expense of tricks like 360's and difficult stuff like top-to-bottom foam climbs and hitting the foam in cutbacks. I guess it's about education. If a move is beyond the experience of a judge then they won't know how difficult it is to do (or how to score it) unless they have some guidance.
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OOK
- Grom (25 or less posts to site)
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 10:34 am
- Location: Phillip Island
How was the comp Red? Did you get good waves for the kneelos?
I spent a family weekend at the Prom and had some delightful glassy peaks at picnic bay all by my lonesome under sunny blue skies.
On the drive home ran into this weird sea fog that followed us all the way home.
Wish I could surf close outs like you guys it would open up a whole new genre of surf spots - any tips
OOK
I spent a family weekend at the Prom and had some delightful glassy peaks at picnic bay all by my lonesome under sunny blue skies.
On the drive home ran into this weird sea fog that followed us all the way home.
Wish I could surf close outs like you guys it would open up a whole new genre of surf spots - any tips
OOK
Andrew,
Send Surfing Australia $10 and they'll send you an ISA rule book. No way to get them otherwise.
Man on the inside has possession of wave.
BUT (depending on how the head judge calls the break - point, peak or marginal beach):
If man on inside turns in foam and takes off it's considered a snake.
Also if man on inside comes from wrong side of peak it's a snake.
While the rule is harsh, the drop in rule makes allowance for the offending surfer to exit without penalty if they do not impede the scoring ability of the rider behind. If someone gets behind you then kick out.
But the most important thing is to know who you are competing against. There are some surfers you can never trust behind you. They may even say, "Go mate" and still burn your rectum. Other guys let their surfing do the talking, not some 80's throwback competitive attitude.
Send Surfing Australia $10 and they'll send you an ISA rule book. No way to get them otherwise.
Man on the inside has possession of wave.
BUT (depending on how the head judge calls the break - point, peak or marginal beach):
If man on inside turns in foam and takes off it's considered a snake.
Also if man on inside comes from wrong side of peak it's a snake.
While the rule is harsh, the drop in rule makes allowance for the offending surfer to exit without penalty if they do not impede the scoring ability of the rider behind. If someone gets behind you then kick out.
But the most important thing is to know who you are competing against. There are some surfers you can never trust behind you. They may even say, "Go mate" and still burn your rectum. Other guys let their surfing do the talking, not some 80's throwback competitive attitude.
Andrew,
Send Surfing Australia $10 and they'll send you an ISA rule book. No way to get them otherwise.
Man on the inside has possession of wave.
BUT (depending on how the head judge calls the break - point, peak or marginal beach):
If man on inside turns in foam and takes off it's considered a snake.
Also if man on inside comes from wrong side of peak it's a snake.
While the rule is harsh, the drop in rule makes allowance for the offending surfer to exit without penalty if they do not impede the scoring ability of the rider behind. If someone gets behind you then kick out.
But the most important thing is to know who you are competing against. There are some surfers you can never trust behind you. They may even say, "Go mate" and still burn your rectum. Other guys let their surfing do the talking, not some 80's throwback competitive attitude.
Send Surfing Australia $10 and they'll send you an ISA rule book. No way to get them otherwise.
Man on the inside has possession of wave.
BUT (depending on how the head judge calls the break - point, peak or marginal beach):
If man on inside turns in foam and takes off it's considered a snake.
Also if man on inside comes from wrong side of peak it's a snake.
While the rule is harsh, the drop in rule makes allowance for the offending surfer to exit without penalty if they do not impede the scoring ability of the rider behind. If someone gets behind you then kick out.
But the most important thing is to know who you are competing against. There are some surfers you can never trust behind you. They may even say, "Go mate" and still burn your rectum. Other guys let their surfing do the talking, not some 80's throwback competitive attitude.