Speed Merchants: How Do You Generate The Most Speed?

frankfqr · Post by **frankfqr** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:59 pm

Balls to the wall!!??

On takeoff, I've got most of the weight on inside knee, planting the rail and setting the high line. Quick peek and I'm spotting if to hold the line or dropping in. PUMP?? Hell no, set it, and hope your boards hydro's are in sync. Sorry, maybe I should break this off to "Hull Hydro's 101 Post." That's my take. Think back Scott---were you to busy writing him off and eyeballing the wall so as to not payed attention to the set up? Balls to the wall!!!

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:52 pm

Interesting set of responses so far. I think that the pumping on "normal" waves generates more speed that simply setting a line and hoping the hydros are up to the task. Even if the speed generation is similar, it seems keeping the board flowing from rail to rail will also open up the most spontaneous types of turns along the way.

Maxb: Fred Peterson is still a solid kneelo in the SoCal area. Nice to hear your admiration for his surfing.

Masons: how in the heck do you "unweight one knee at a time?" Isn't suggesting that to me kinda like when the old guys send a new mechanic to the tool chest to bring back a "left-handed monkey wrench"? You're just messin' with my head...

Schiff: trying to stay in the fall line while trying to create/milk speed was probably the most helpful comment to me, personally.

Albert: time to change that icon, I think, autobiographical as it may be!!!!!!

Thanks to all of you, thus far. One of the Simpson's monitoring this thread want to weigh in? How 'bout you, Barry? I've been out with you when you actually surf as fast as me...hey, even a lot faster!

Headwax. · Post by **Headwax.** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:04 pm

Bout twenty years ago friend and I paddled out at curl curl in Sydney's north. We'are siting on the edge of a right hand bank, right on the shoulder. The wave is unmakeable from the peak. The wind is slight onshore and the swell about four feet.

Out paddles a guy who sits about forty feet inside of us, behind the peak. We don't pay him any attention.

Wave comes through finally. My mate the footsurfer sitting on the shoulder starts paddling his arse off for it -- as does the unknown surfer sitting behind the peak. It's a given that the unknown surfer doesn't have a chance at making it. He takes off anyway, behinde the peak, flashes this bottom turn, sets his line, walks up a little bit on to the nose of his board and his board just accelerates.

Meanwhile my mate is still wiggling his backside trying to shoulder hop, unware that the inside surfer is screaming towards him. My mate finally gets onto the wave, just as the inside surfer reaches him, does a big bottom turn to avoid him, swearing his head off then rides all the way into the beach and gets out of the water, cause he has the shits, big time.

The inside surfer was Nat Young. All he did was that first bottom turn off the tail of his board, unweight as he came up the face (moving his weight and feet forward at the same time) and then set his line.

No wiggles, no pumping, just a good example of fall line.

frankfqr · Post by **frankfqr** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:34 pm

fall line----this is a sweet term---thanx---still it seems to be that high line. Your discription fits what I like headwax. Yeah some hydro's do tap it. I think I'll bow out, my post sound repetitive even to myself

I admire those that seek and can attain satisfaction from current "progressive" designs and approaches. My old bones just don't want to work that hard. Just my thing, I don't want to "pump it". But I'm still scootin' just as fast as I did in my younger days

no need to change a good thing!!

Headwax. · Post by **Headwax.** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:43 pm

Hi Franq

You're right, high is fast! Strange in a way, when the power is in the pit.

On waggling = Terry Fitz it his heyday was known as speed machine. He was also known as mr 'body torque'. Could the two be related?

Doc Turbo · Post by **Doc Turbo** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:56 am

I suppose there are probably different strategies for different waves, breaks, and conditions, tremendous number of variables.

The slow mushy wave as indicated in the original example, but the rider still got the speed is really quite different from riding a FAST wave, expected to close out, but making it.

I have noticed some of the young stand ups, very light body weight, like 45 kg, take off on almost a non wave, like going left on the right hand reef break, but catching the speed track, and flying.

All being said, I have found for me in kneeboarding the speed is on the top, and its not the pumping only, but staying with this groove during the entire ride, and not getting pitched in the process.

RT · Post by RT » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:49 pm

Speed is generated in direct proportion to the timing and quality of ones turns.

RT

RT · Post by RT » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:50 pm

Speed is generated in direct proportion to the timing and quality of one's turns.

RT

W.G. Facenda · Post by **W.G. Facenda** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:50 pm

you can say that again...

SFKneelo · Post by **SFKneelo** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:12 pm

Yes, high line generally provides the best speed.

Here's a link to a surfline thought from Mick Fanning:

http://www.surfline.com/video/video_pla ... m?id=14307

Again, the point about too high on the face is about NOT being able to drive in a comfortable position. Consider hollow waves, where it it possible to surf higher, but not drive higher.

A personal example is: album_showpage.php?pic_id=6620&user_id=3

If that works.

This is an example of 'too high.' Granted, it's constrained by me, but looking at the spray off the board, drive is lost as a result of me negotiating the section.

It's surfable there, but the potential to drive for speed is below me on the wave.

That's what I meant about drive-through-the-fall-line being that which describes the fastest path.

Another aspect brought out is potential vs. kenetic energy. If your body position is low, with the possibility to thrust, potential energy is maintained with the best advantage for conversion to kenetic.

So that's a great point directly related.

The best outcome for success is guaranteed by keeping as much close to the vest (potential energy) (as long as that energy is focused on maintaining drive in the fall-line.)

(With that pontification, slap myself upside the head and give me a big WHATEVA, MARY!)

Masons · Post by **Masons** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:40 pm

The fall-line is a great concept. Definitely accurate to riding the correct line for the most speed.

Scott- The point I am making is similar to how stand-ups shift there weight from toe to heel edge, creating a lot of speed. This isn't really "pumping" and thats not what I'm trying to explain. Its creating tiny turns and setting the board rail to rail which will generate a lot of speed.

Pumping I usually use when a wave is mushy and your trying to keep on the rolling shoulder as you approach the next section. Not what I would do on any steep face like the above picture or larger wave where one is trying to make a closeout.

--EDIT-- Yes of course NO KNEERIDER should ever Huntington Hop, if this is occuring its time to get out the longboard or go somewhere else.---

maxb · Post by **maxb** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:44 pm

the huntington sure ain't pumping in my book..... if i need to do that to stay on a wave i'm outta there

maxb · Post by **maxb** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:45 pm

oops i mean hb hop

Steeno · Post by **Steeno** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:12 pm

the man with the least board in the water is the fatest

Headwax. · Post by **Headwax.** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:23 am

Steen wrote

the man with the least board in the water is the fatest

Shouldn't that be "the man with the most board in the water is the fattest"?

(Don't you hate a smartarse?

)