Where is kneeboarding going?

[KneeBumps]

let's see, I'll be 75-85, riding joysticked rocket hydro-thruster sleds (won't have to paddle at all), probably with about 15 fins....

[Nov]

It will likely be gone. Most people see it as antiquated when compared to dropknee/prone sponging or standup surfing. In reality, its an amazing experience, but I don't think with the current lack of interest in the sport that people are going to realize that soon enough to keep it from vanishing.

Even if that is what happens, does it really matter? The only thing that matters is how much fun one has in the water, and if kneeling toots one's horn, than keep doing it. And, do not worry about where it will be 20-30 years from now, though that is an interesting question.

I agree. Kneeboarding will be all but dead in 20-30 years time unless we do something about it. All that will be left is a bunch of guys in their 60-70s who rarely (or can't) surf anymore and a much smaller group of guys in their 40s-50s, hardly inspiring stuff.

We need grommets and we need them desperately. During my 7, going on 8 years as a kneeboarder, I've had one kid from my area take up kneeboarding full time- my own brother. One kid. With that kind of growth rate, we aren't going anywhere.

This website testifies to this fact. Everyone involved in this Sport/Art well remembers "The Dead Years", when KB'ing was almost nonexistent. It is only in the last few years that kneeriding has began it's Phoenix-like rise from the ashes. And the most damning evidence is, the fact that the resurgence is being led by the guys that have been doing it since the 1970's and 1980's. Not exactly a claim for the torch by the young-un's.

What young-uns? There basically are no young-uns.

[kneelingBROTHA]

bodyboardings on its way out

Go to Newport's Wedge on a good day and rethink that statement. Or look at the Australian bodyboarding press.

But I can see where you might get the wrong impression about bodyboarding. Bodyboarding Magazine, the one the layman could pick up at 7-11 and Ralph's alongside Surfing and Surfer, is no longer around. There have been a series of mags about bodyboarding since then in the USA, but none have stuck around very long.

Wedge is as crowded as ever, and is it with kneelos? Nope. Mostly bodyboarders, and a few brave standup surfers.

I am not hating on kneeboarding here, I am just being realistic. Kneeboarding is great because one can BOTH crank turns and sit in the pocket/barrel easily.

The problem is this: an professional bodyboarder can ride the tube deeper than a professional kneeboarder (because the bodyboard has no fins that come off when the foambal/shockwave hits), and a professional surfer can do turns that, from an aesthetic perspective, look more radical.

Bodyboarding and surfing are more coverage-friendly, and cheaper. Does that make them better? No. Does that make them last in the long run? Yes.

I do not care though! Kneeboarding is fun, and when I take my kneeboard out instead of my bodyboard, I enjoy it. With the direction of shaping (CNC, computer-crafted shapes) one will always be able to enjoy the sport if one has a magic board on disk. But will there be a lot of riders left? Probably not. Does it matter? No. Do what YOU want for YOURSELF, and do not worry about everyone else!

[kneelingBROTHA]

PS--Nov, I feel your sentiment about youth. I was going to give my board to a kid at one point, and now he's a semi-sponsored bodyboarder. He dropknees a lot. Go figure!

[skansand]

kneelingbro, i went to the wedge today ...and it was good!.... some 8' faces and penty of shape.... its been my 3rd time at the wedge this week ...really fun everyday.... maybe 3 bodyboarders really charging it out of 15 guys.i get all the waves i want out there and i havnt surfed it in almost a year.....i got a really good in n out barrel today on my surfmat and long floater on the kneeboard.....

i know a certain pro-bodyboarder (wedge king) that has for the most part totally switched to riding surf matz....I know him through the ex-editor of ROT(BB mag) whos completly swithed to riding surf mats....

ross mcbride (elemenohpee owner) stands up now, so does Roach (best DKer ever) and kainoa mcgee ...

i notice alot less hard core bodyboarders now then i did 5 years ago...(most of my surfing buddys are bodyboarders and they surf less then my standup and kneelo bros.....

...i was hard core boogie for 5 years and within a year of finding kneeboarding i almost completly switched......its so much more fufilling.. you know .......

im just saying ,...well you know ..

[RMcKnee]

30 years ago, paddling out at my local, I'd get remarks like; "aren't many of you guys around these days" from footboarders on a pretty regular basis. These days I get the same remarks, (probably from the same footboarders footboarding offspring), almost every time I paddle out. And this despite the fact that I've seen more kneelos surfing in the last five years than in my entire life to date. (I live on the Goldie and surf amongst large numbers of total strangers a lot).

As far as I'm concerned, just being able to ride a wave is enough to keep me going. At my age I have no particular desire to be more progressive, more radical, or more anything else. I do, however, have a pretty strong desire to continue getting the regular glimpses of the great ineffable that surfing throws back at you from time to time. This means that as long as I can get myself out the back, there'll be a kneelo in the water somewhere.

To me, it doesn't matter whether you surf prone, on your knees or on your feet, with or without a board. It's all surfing. It's the fact of doing it at all that matters. And remember that kneeboarding didn't start with George Greenough; the Hawaiians were onto it when Cook sailed through the Pacific in the 18th century.

Apart from anything else, one of the reasons footboarding is doing so "well" is that there are gazillions of kids all over the planet who just wanna go surfing. Kneeboarding will be just fine if we all stop navel gazing and go get wet.

[kidrock]

Well said, McKnee.

[Nov]

Kneeboarding will be just fine if we all stop navel gazing and go get wet.

No, it won't be just fine. By doing nothing, we've landed ourselves in this situation. Pretending that everything's fine won't make the problem go away.

[RMcKnee]

Nov, To elaborate a little...when I was a grommet, the mysto element in the shortboard revolution was Mr Greenough. In the nascent surfing press we used to read about people such as Nat Young and Bob McTavish being VERY complimentary about both GG's surfing ability and the "radical" boards he rode. Being the kind of obsessive and curious kid I was, it was natural for me to figure GG was probably onto something and thus explore surfing in a kneeling position, first on a coolite, then on to that holy of holies, a fibreglass board.

Not everyone in my peer group did the same. I don't know why. I guess we're all different.

The fact is that kneeboarders have always been out of the mainstream, a little leftfield. That's not a bad thing. In the future, where kneeboarding will be is probably about where it is today in relation to all the other forms of surfing. It's just out of plain sight, but always there for the discerning who choose to look a little deeper. Kneeboarding will never be mainstream. It ain't meant to be. Anyway, in the future, mainstream looks like being a 6'1" thruster made by a computer somewhere in SE Asia where they don't even have surf. Like I said, leftfield is not a bad thing.

If you haven't already seen it, the new SW has a small piece on Andrew Kidman (of Litmus/Glass Love fame). In the 2nd para on page 94 he says ..."Farrar and Novakov were definitely two of the best surfers I ever saw at Northy.":shock: There's also a cool photo of Simon on page 97.

Do as much as you feel you should to encourage others to ride on their knees. Maybe you wanna organize clubs and contests and such. If that's your thing, go for it. But remember we're all different. I find the best encouragement I can ever offer anyone to ride a kneeboard is to go out and get absolutely throated right in front of 'em. Shralping and flying through the air whenever possible are good too, (but harder on my battered body, as my chiropractor will confirm).

One last thing. In the footboarding world, Garrett Parkes is looking like a future contender for the WCT. If he makes it, at some point young Garrett will be giving interviews in which he talks about his father and his influence on his surfing. That'll probably be about the time that someone figures out what DP has achieved with his quad fish designs. (Check the dimensions of the boards Kelly Slater has been using in smaller waves recently... 5' 10" X somewhat wider than usual, how many fins?...) In the future I predict DP will be held in the same regard by all Australian surfers as Steve Lis is now by American surfers.

I rest my case!

PS Sorry about the massive post. I'm new to this thing and probably getting carried away.

[Nov]

Nov, To elaborate a little...when I was a grommet, the mysto element in the shortboard revolution was Mr Greenough. In the nascent surfing press we used to read about people such as Nat Young and Bob McTavish being VERY complimentary about both GG's surfing ability and the "radical" boards he rode. Being the kind of obsessive and curious kid I was, it was natural for me to figure GG was probably onto something and thus explore surfing in a kneeling position, first on a coolite, then on to that holy of holies, a fibreglass board.

And these days kids will look to Dane Reynolds, Julian Wilson etc and want to pull the moves that they do.

The fact is that kneeboarders have always been out of the mainstream, a little leftfield. That's not a bad thing. In the future, where kneeboarding will be is probably about where it is today in relation to all the other forms of surfing. It's just out of plain sight, but always there for the discerning who choose to look a little deeper. Kneeboarding will never be mainstream. It ain't meant to be. Anyway, in the future, mainstream looks like being a 6'1" thruster made by a computer somewhere in SE Asia where they don't even have surf. Like I said, leftfield is not a bad thing.

Not quite, kneeboarding used to be huge- especially here in Australia. There were massive kneeboarding comps, kneeboarding divisions in standup comps, kneelo sections and ads in magazines- we were quite mainstream once.

If you haven't already seen it, the new SW has a small piece on Andrew Kidman (of Litmus/Glass Love fame). In the 2nd para on page 94 he says ..."Farrar and Novakov were definitely two of the best surfers I ever saw at Northy.":shock: There's also a cool photo of Simon on page 97.

And that's all we seem to get these days, the odd quote from a standup saying 'those kneelos were pretty good back in the day, ay?'.

Do as much as you feel you should to encourage others to ride on their knees. Maybe you wanna organize clubs and contests and such. If that's your thing, go for it. But remember we're all different. I find the best encouragement I can ever offer anyone to ride a kneeboard is to go out and get absolutely throated right in front of 'em. Shralping and flying through the air whenever possible are good too, (but harder on my battered body, as my chiropractor will confirm).

We need grommets to be able to do that.

One last thing. In the footboarding world, Garrett Parkes is looking like a future contender for the WCT. If he makes it, at some point young Garrett will be giving interviews in which he talks about his father and his influence on his surfing. That'll probably be about the time that someone figures out what DP has achieved with his quad fish designs. (Check the dimensions of the boards Kelly Slater has been using in smaller waves recently... 5' 10" X somewhat wider than usual, how many fins?...) In the future I predict DP will be held in the same regard by all Australian surfers as Steve Lis is now by American surfers.

That's the way I can see kneeboarding making a comeback- by hybridising and melding with standup surfing. Kneeboarding could become the new bodyboarding by promoting the fact that kneeboards are versatile, and can be ridden both standing and kneeling.

I've had far more interest in my boards and in kneeboarding in general ever since I worked in standing up to become a fixture of my kneeboard surfing. It makes sense, if kids can try kneeboarding without losing the ability to stand up, they're going to be more open to the idea of kneeboarding.

PS Sorry about the massive post. I'm new to this thing and probably getting carried away.

No, don't worry! Discussion is good!

[hansel]

knee boarding may be on the decline, but as long as there are people knee riding, it will always be around. with Farrer and the Simpson's riding, and many others including shapers, the sport will be underground and will always be progressing, because somebody will find something better. it will i think, never be as popular as stand up or body boarding. but hey, look at the bright side... at least in about 15 years there will be a surf movie featuring retro boards, and knee boarding will be the first on the list

[jdkneelo]

thats not uyou is it mitch

[RMcKnee]

Nov,

OK, as discussion is good, here's some more.

Kids will always want to emulate those they see as heroes. Unfortunately these days our heroes tend to manufactured and used by commercial enterprises in order to sell product. This way you can be a little rebellious in your youth and still be a good consumer.

Back in the day surfing was more a subculture whose members were more likely to make their own decisions without interference from various marketing departments. The co-option of surfing by business has a lot to do with why there are no longer kneelo divisions in stand up club comps, no kneelo advertising in the surfing press, (who can afford to compete with Billabong etc for space). It's just too much unneccessary work for the surf mafia to promote kneeloism, and why would they bother when they're already selling plenty of standardised product to a constantly growing market. Don't forget that the big 3 surf companies probably sell more clothing product to non-surfers than to surfers. To non-surfers, a surfer is a young bloke standing on a board on a big blue wave. Primary rule of selling stuff; K.I.S.S. That means, partly, identify your market, refine your image, brand like there's no tomorrow and then grab that cash with both hands.

The odd complimentary quote from a stand-up may be all kneelos will ever get, but who cares. Besides, which stand-up is it and what's being said.

Getting grommets is hard, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. We can all do our bit by surfing our best and being nice guys in the water, supporting clubs etc. (even though that may a ittle foreign to some of us). Console yourself with the thought that anyone who is attracted to kneeloism is far more likely to be serious enough about it to be still doing it 30 years hence than 5,000 Julian Wilson wannabes who'll likely stop surfing inside ten years.

I certainly hope you don't really feel you have to stand up to get recognition. That's a whole other can of worms!

Innaresting topic...

[Jerry]

I wholeheartedly agree, RMcKnee We all do our bit by surfing our best

[Nov]

Back in the day surfing was more a subculture whose members were more likely to make their own decisions without interference from various marketing departments. The co-option of surfing by business has a lot to do with why there are no longer kneelo divisions in stand up club comps, no kneelo advertising in the surfing press, (who can afford to compete with Billabong etc for space).

No it doesn't, it's because there are no kneelo grommets to sell to! No market means no interest from the big surfing companies.

It's just too much unneccessary work for the surf mafia to promote kneeloism, and why would they bother when they're already selling plenty of standardised product to a constantly growing market. Don't forget that the big 3 surf companies probably sell more clothing product to non-surfers than to surfers. To non-surfers, a surfer is a young bloke standing on a board on a big blue wave. Primary rule of selling stuff; K.I.S.S. That means, partly, identify your market, refine your image, brand like there's no tomorrow and then grab that cash with both hands.

The companies that you are referring to will not hesitate to jump on any opportunity to increase their market size. You can see it now with the retro-revival, people revived the old board and clothing designs- the big surf companies simply took note of the changing market and jumped on the opportunity to make money off retro-inspired surfing paraphernalia.

It's the same with kneeboarding, if there was more of an interest in it, the big surfing companies would not hestiate in attempting to promote it and trying to make a buck out of it.

Getting grommets is hard, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. We can all do our bit by surfing our best and being nice guys in the water, supporting clubs etc. (even though that may a ittle foreign to some of us). Console yourself with the thought that anyone who is attracted to kneeloism is far more likely to be serious enough about it to be still doing it 30 years hence than 5,000 Julian Wilson wannabes who'll likely stop surfing inside ten years.

Has 'getting out there and surfing our best' done anything for kneeboarding in the last 20 or so years? Hardly. We've only seen kneeboarding dwindle and die off.

And that's not a consolation at all. You seem to be implying that most kids that take up standup surfing are incredibly shallow and only really do it for their image. That may be true with for a percentage of them, but the rest stick with it for life. There's a huge number of guys around that were raised on a diet of Kelly Slater videos, they haven't disappeared- that surfing generation was huge and still is.

We need numbers like that. Sure a bunch of kids from the current surfing generation will drop off and stop surfing- it happens (well, happened) with kneeboarding too. But if you have enough people, and enough new people taking it up, you will expose the wheat from the chaff- from that 5000 you will get around 100 truly prodigal talents, another 500 guys who rip, another 1000 decent surfers and another 1000 who can't surf that great, but love it all the same. The remainder will be the guys who drop off, the weekend surfers etc- but they'll be replaced by the good surfers from the next generation.

I certainly hope you don't really feel you have to stand up to get recognition. That's a whole other can of worms!

It's not to get recognition, it's to get interest. I've had people absolutely amazed by the fact that kneeboards make functional standup boards. I've had a lot of guys out at my local ask to swap boards with me, after getting curious about how kneeboards go standing up, only for them to start kneeboarding on 80% of the waves they get. They usually remark how much fun the kneeboarding side of it was, and that the boards go just like a fish standing up- i.e. good.

I think we can ride the retro-revival/fish craze by promoting our sport as a versatile sport, just like boogers do with prone and drop-knee.
Kids love the idea of getting two-in-one, it seems like a bargain to them- it's one of the reasons as to why bodyboards sell so well. Kids can see the prone guys doing their huge airs/spins/rolls etc and then they also see the DK guys doing open face surfing. Suddenly a bodyboard looks ultra-appealing, they get two ways to surf with the one board.

We could be doing the same with kneeboarding. Imagine a promo vid showing guys on their knees doing huge barrel rolls, reverses, airs and so on, only to show the same guys getting to their feet and ripping the sh!t out of waves standing up- all on the same board. Suddenly a kneeboard would look incredibly appealing- two functional methods of surfing a wave, for the price of one board.