inconvenent truth

[ScottMac]

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[Smokin Rock]

Scott,
it says in that article that the ice is the worst it's been in 25-30 years!
ice is cold right?
El Jefe',
you must be elated to be able to comfortably surf the westside now!

[stemple]

I would like to point out. That scientists are now predicting that global warming may impact the north Atlantic by slowing down warm water gulf stream and energy flowing up from the south. One hypothesis is that north Atlantic and northern Europe will actually get colder as the Atlantic heat pump shuts down. There is some evidence in Greenland ice cores to support this theory. Also mini ice ages have occurred in northern Europe in the past, many of these are being correlated with data showing elevated atmospheric carbon levels.

re: Its global climate change not necessarily warming that is the real problem. The change rate is occurring at a pace faster then has ever been seen in historic and near ancient past. Few ecosystems can adjust quickly enough to match the accelerated changes. If some of the major ecosystems can't adjust and collapse, no one is sure what the consequences will be.

Earth Day is coming up. Isn't time you hugged your mother!!!

[fooj]

Oh Great. Between this and the new Starbucks I'm never gonna sleep.

[Beeline2.0]

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[Ler]

I'm outta here its almost 4:20pm on 04/20/2007 time to listen to some Bob Marley, then popsicles and pancakes, together.

zion train is coming our way, get aboard. Were going in the same direction. Soul Train is coming our way.


A SLOB

[fooj]

I'm putting this in my pipe and smoking it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2478442170

[Beeline2.0]

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[Smokin Rock]

Jeff,
are you insinuating i should look at both sides of this complex issue and try to make an informed decision? talk about inconvienent!
i prefer to have my opinions spoon fed to me by whoever the most popular entity or group that is around at the time. this saves mucho time and the headache of figuring things out for myself.
besides, the hippie chicks dig the whole "Jack Johnson-enviromentalist-pseudointellectual-out to save the world" trip.
i really find girls who bathe infrequently and never shave soooooo hot!
get me some!!!!!!

[fooj]

I guess thats why you kneeboard, Mr. Velveeta.

Ironic that Waterworld a box office flop was filmed in the ocean surrounding the Big Island.

[Shelfbreak]

Actually Smokin I'm not upset just thought your normally humorous standard had slipped a touch - you need to stop worrying about the big picture stuff, loosen up man, whack a Richard Simmons video in your old VCR and get back on the program.

[Smokin Rock]

shelf,
glad your not upset c'mon now....."a incomplete breakfast" was kinda funny. jeez, as far as the big pic. i'm bored. theres been strong trades for a week plus. no surf.
the ridiculousness of Al Gore getting a Academy Award for intellectual scientific work could perhaps only be rivaled but George Dubya getting a Nobel peace prize.
the worlds gone to hell. Rap is considered music Reality teevee is considered interesting and now i'm not as funny. even slappin on my favorite dolphin shorts and sweatin to the oldies does'nt hold the same lofty appeal as it once did. i think i need a trip to Indo.

[stemple]

A post from your community eco freak. I wish it was funnier but this is issue I don't find too funny.

Beeline et all

First off name calling is immature but based on stories of past behavior appear to be par for the course.

In order for me to understand beelines point I need to reiterate and summarize your theory which I have dubbed Beeline’s “hodgepodge theory” of global climate change. It goes simply like this:

Global climate change is natural cyclic phenomenon that has occurred in the past and will occur in the future. The climate change data that has been collected merely demonstrates this. The change will be a hodgepodge effects few of which can be attributed to humankind’s impact on environment. In short global climate change is natural process of which humans have little control.

That stated, in any decent debate it is first reasonable to state your rational. A few basic questions need to be asked and answered.

Does humankind have the ability to change its environment?[/b] Sure, we do it all the time, look at the rivers in LA as a local example, look at the beaches of Honolulu

Does humankind have the ability to impact the environment on global scale? Yes, again. I would put forth many examples of global scale human influence. One simple example would be the introduction of non-native species into just about every ecosystem in the world from zebra mussels in the great lakes to exotic plants and animals in our Californian habitats (Arundo, yellow star thistle, tamarisk, Argentinean ants, the list is very long). Those Nigerian water snakes didn’t swim to Bolsa from Nigeria. We certainly can change climate on a local scale. The average summer temperature of Palm Desert has dropped in the last 20 years mainly due golf course irrigation and evaporative cooling, cities are heat sinks and change temperatures locally. It would stand figure that we have the ability to change climate on a global scale as well it may take us a bit longer to do it though.

One of the basic responses of global warming skeptics is that carbon levels can’t be correlated to global climate change. Al Gore makes some points in the movie about peer reviewed journals articles vs mass media presentation. I have not had time to verify this but it is still interesting. He said out 700 or so peer reviewed scientific articles on global climate change (i.e. Nature, Science etc.) none claim that global warming is not occurring. Out of a similar amount of mass media articles, about 50 percent say maybe it is happening, maybe it isn’t. Interesting

Ice cores are important data. Arctic and Antarctic glaciers grow very similar to tree rings. Each year snow piles on and traps bubbles of air within the ice. These bubbles can be sampled to determine the carbon levels in the atmosphere as well general temperature conditions. They work like a world climate data recorder. Nobody challenges the science behind this data collection. By examining ice cores in a timeline, a pattern emerged. When carbon levels decrease global temperatures dropped. The low carbon levels also correlate well with known ice ages of the planet. This is very strong and compelling evidence that levels of atmospheric carbon influence global temperatures.

The earth is heated by the sun’s radiation. This energy hits the earth, some is absorbed some is reflected back into space. The earth’s atmosphere traps some of this energy and moderates the temperature on the earth. Without an atmosphere the earth would have radical temperature fluctuations making life on this planet unlikely. Examples would be temperature fluctuations on other planets with little or thinner atmospheres than earth. Our atmosphere is like a blanket on a bed. You want it to be just right not too hot, not too cold, it’s a sensitive balance. Increased carbon in the atmosphere increases the amount of solar radiation that is trapped within our atmosphere, limiting the amount of infrared energy escaping. Thickness the blanket layer in other words. The ice core data tells that prior to the human industrial revolution, carbon concentrations in our atmosphere fluctuated within a zone that never exceed 300 parts per million (ppm). Today’s carbon concentrations are around 600 ppm now. Model predictions, though likely hyped a bit too much, say without curbs on carbon emissions that this level could double in the next fifty years

In regard to the ice depth in north Atlantic, I jumped the gun and used a bit of license to go after that point, sorry. The point needs to be strongly made that one data point in one year, in one place, doesn’t discount all of the data collected all over the world. The point that is important is that global warming has the potential ability to alter ocean currents and the consequences of that are not well understood. But we know that changes in global water temps/currents can have radical impacts on our weather patterns. El Nino is a good example of that. Imagine if we had a semi permanent El Nino conditions; better surf perhaps but what else? Ocean circulation patterns are driven by wind and water density differences. The density mechanism is that cold water that is denser sinks and moves below the surface water layers that is driven by wind and other factors. The Gulfstream brings warm water into the north Atlantic and with it moisture to northern Europe. The current turns north and cools as it passes the Greenland ice sheet. Its sinks and flows south much the same way water pushes back out to sea in a riptide except it does it far below the ocean surface. More on this …

Global warming is likely to have different magnitudes in different places. The arctic is likely where the most dramatic changes will occur. As the polar ice sheets melt and get smaller there is greater sea surface area. Greater sea surface area has the ability to absorb more heat than the light ice surface. Thus it is a self feed back loop as the ice melts more and more heat energy is absorbed increasing the rate of heat build up. This explains why though we only see a small global temperature change at the equator and we are seeing ten times the change in the arctic areas. Given current rates, the North Pole will have consistent open water in the summer in ten years. Great for shipping companies bad for low lying cities.

Back to North Atlantic. If water temperatures and air temp rise, and the ice sheet of Greenland diminishes in size, cool denser water may sink at slower rates that occur now. The driving engine of the northern gulfstream may slow, causing a change in the weather pattern of north Europe. Historically, the gulfstream engine has slowed down. This, as Al Gore claims, was due to large lake in north American flowing into the north Atlantic, diluting the salt content and creating less dense water which failed to subside, move out of the area and reducing the driver the current. This in turn, turned off the gulfstream heat pump sending north Europe into an ice age.

90 percent of the nations of the earth have signed the Kyoto treaty which acknowledges the need to curb carbon emissions to reduce global effects on climate. Two nations have not signed the treaty USA and Australia. But at least the Australians are banning incandescent lights bulbs as a start, baby steps you know. The USA is responsible for over 35% of the world’s carbon emissions with China nipping at our heels.

The post is getting too long but I wanted to layout my reasons for believing in global warming and climate change. What is your reasoning for believing it isn’t our fault and its business as usual? I’m listening openly.

I also walk the talk. The last car we purchased was a hydrid. 80 percent of the lights in our house are high efficient fluorescents. My business is environmental restoration. I have been the design engineer on over 12 million dollars of restoration projects in last five years. Approximately 2 million in projects will be constructed this summer. My wife works with endangered species and environmental management. I try to walk to do my shopping whenever I can. We are making efforts to do kids activities that minimize driving. However, I do own a SUV and I drive to go surf. Lifestyle changes are not easy but at I am making effort and acknowledge I can do more.

Believing we have no control over global warming is easy. It’s convenient; you don’t need to take responsibility. We don’t have to change and when the sh t hits the fan you can say oh well the data wasn’t conclusive enough by then it may be too late. The earth’s environment in non-linear so many variable and factors contribute to how our world functions. Is there a tipping point where it all blows up. Sure would suck to confirm that after the fact.

Syd

[Beeline2.0]

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[fooj]

I ride a bike and have stopped cutting my hair to save energy.