A PAIPO THAT FLOATS--WHO CAN MAKE IT?

[tumak]

kneelingBROTHA - Answer to first question: normal waves. Whatever nature dishes out. Two feet... ten feet... whatever. In the real world, real people ride normal, avarage waves. I am one of those real people. Unless I travel to Hawaii, I will never ride a wave like the one pictured above. Hey - I'm a Floridian!

Here's the thing: When GG first rode Velo, he hated it, and found it very difficult to relate to. I think that several go-outs still found him in dismay. But, eventually, he began to really feel what was going on with his new design... and eventually it rocked the world... basically giving surfers, including you who are reading this, something serious to do. Witness flexspoon.com - the world is still rockin' from the effects of Velo.

Perhaps the Wave Skater is for a mindset that isn't stuck on circus tricks. All I know is that I've never related positively to bodyboards until I encountered the Wave Skater. As I stated above, it functions largely like a finned paipo, which is why I love it so much... because I'm a paipo rider. My riding doesn't have to be astronaut training to be meaningful. I like the act of simply riding waves, getting barrel after barrel... like I did yesterday right here in Florida. So, here it is: perhaps you guys inhabit a minority world... one that is overspecialized. Perhaps the Wave Skater isn't for you because it doesn't fit into you overspecialized idea of what bodyboarding is all about. Perhaps there's a bigger world out there inhabitied by people who just want to have a good time riding waves with the best equipment possible for their money.

I just recommend that if people try Wave Skaters they should give them a chance. I've known so many fickle and impatient riders of all manner of surfing equipment who never really give themselves a chance to grow into whatever they're riding. The result is that they never seem to be able to locate happiness. Always testing... always judging... never settling into the simple act of riding waves for fun... for oneself.

[Bud]

Tumak,
You are asking a kid to spend hard earned limited funds on something that isn't obviously proven.
Something he's looked into and found negative feedback on.

BTW,
The 1rst 2 bodyboard images I originally posted are somewhere in Australia.
The other is Hawaii at Pipeline.

Florida gets serious waves sometimes. Just not very often.
When Florida cooks up a good batch or "pudding" again, like this......





Get someone to go ride a few on the Wave Skater for us and show us how with some pics and video of it.
If the results show people "ripping" in surf like that, then you can be sure it'll increase sales.
People will be stoked by seeing great surfing on the Wave Skater, enough to go try it.

The footage of kids fooling about in dribble will only hinder their sales.

A good modern bodyboard can be ridden in dribble and even huge Jaws on Maui.
They've been proven the best prone surfing vehicles ever.
That can't be said about matts or paipos.

Just because kids like to explore the limits of their imagination by pulling outrageous trick / maneuvers doesn't mean it's just circus antics.
I've seen bodyboarders who can draw clean, true, lines on waves
as well as any great surfer.

I once had the pleasure of sharing a hut in G-Land with Aussie bodyboarding great Steve MacKenzie.
For the first few days he just streaked deep in the barrel start to finish.

One afternoon as I took off my flippers for the long reef dance back to the beach, I saw him pull into an 8' screamer and ride it stuffed in the hole until it was just head high (to his prone position) and skid up on dry reef to end the wave, right at my bootied feet!
Completely barreled for 700 yards!

No turns, no spins or flips, just a rediculously long, deep, tube ride on the most perfect wave you could ever imagine.

Riding waves at any level is fun on just about anything you can get your paws on.

We are all excited to see if this Wave Skater is any better.
But........."the proof is in the pudding"

[DrStrange]

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

We want pudding! We want pudding!


...erm,tell me again, which one's pink?

[kneelingBROTHA]

I definatley appreciate your point of view Tumak but I can't just delve into something like that. I landed my first job this semester (soooo stoked to be working), and I'm doing photography (not to mention being in college) so even with a job, I still don't have bling.

If there is some footage of the Wave Skater ripping, I swear to you, I'd be one of the first to buy it. I was going to get a "2nd" Wave Skater off of ebay.com when they first started selling them on there, but I saw the video on their site of its manueverability and function, and it looked pathetic.

That's not to say it is in fact pathetic. I just need to see the proof that its worth my money before I get into it.

And Bud...STEVE MACKENZIE is one of my all time favorite bodyboarders for sure! I'm only 20, so I never got to see the whole run of bodyboarding magazine, but during the end of its run, I saw some insane barrels of that guy. Some claimed he has some of the best tube riding skills on the planet. I can't be the judge of that, but I sure can say he produced some of the most stoking photos I've ever seen!

And personally, I'm not one for tricks. No "circus tricks" for me. Carves and barrels and the forward spin. That's it. I like clean lines myself, and can even do a prone wrap-around cutback. I can't even do rolls or anything like that. I stick to the basics, which works fine for small to large surf. If you can carve, stall and ride the barrel, you're set on a bodyboard, as long as you have proper board control and can take late drops (which I can). Its neccessary to take late drops, because standups always push you further and further back in the takeoff zone with the hope that you'll decide not to go on a big thumper. Psssh.

[tumak]

Hi, Bud. It's really nice to be able to have a little dialogue with you! That's a great story about Mackenzie! That must've been an awesome ride to behold.

A friend, highly placed in the KB world, emailed me a while ago about getting beat up on this forum. The Wave Skater definitely has detractors doing negative spin just as it's leaving the gate to run the race. Therefore, it's not a fair race, as people believe the detractors regardless of whether they're right or wrong. Experience will teach us the truth about Wave Skaters. It certainly taught me! That's why I ride one!

Just so you know, regardless of what kind of surfing I'm involved with I have a habit of denouncing unnecessary fluff. I find trick-motivated surfing questionable at best. Friends tell me I should loosen up! Ha ha ha! It's really tough being a purist in search of the understated in a world constantly in need of more and more entertainment. So, I apologize to all the kids who are just looking for a bigger bang; it's to be expected of the young. My real gripe is about using various media to negatively impact public opinion. Just look at how much negativity surrounds the Wave Skater without what I consider to be a fair period of testing. Who is to blame for this? I suspect that the answer to this question is very interesting, and I will leave it at that.

Here's another truism gleaned from 41 years of surfing: one man's ceiling is another man's floor. Surfing moves in waves of subjective attraction. Whether it's balsa boards, polyurethane boards, epoxy boards, long boards, short boards, squaretails, pintails, swallowtails, fish, singlefins, twin fins, thrusters, quads, twinzers, guns, discs, displacement hulls... WHATEVER IT IS!... the truths and ideals in the surfing experience are sought and expressed within the mind and heart of the individual surfer. I find solace in the fact that what one influential person or clique denounces as BS can be the absolute Holy Grail for a multitude of other people. Forever shifting sand... "nothing is written."

[kneelingBROTHA]

So, I apologize to all the kids who are just looking for a bigger bang; it's to be expected of the young.

The kids I read about mostly weren't sponsored, weren't seeking negative press, they were being up front.

They said the things wouldn't even bottom turn on a hollow wave, and these kids ride Wedge (yes, unsponsored kids ride Wedge), so they should know how to bottom turn on a hollow wave.

All I'm saying is that if it rides, if its fast, please show me a picture and also tell me HOW. I keep asking how to ride it, and you keep telling me about detractors and how they are just hating on the ride.

Do you grip with both hands on front? Ride it with one hand on the nose, one on the rail?

I'm truly interested in this product, I can't imagine any reason that there would be propaganda against it, I'm not trying to beat you up, all I was wondering is how to ride it, and a picture of it ripping.

Spreading lies and rumours isn't my thing. I was honest about the source of the info, who said it, and where they said it. Heck, if you really want to talk to some kids about this product, register on:

www.ebodyboarding.com

and talk about what waves YOU'VE ridden it on, what size YOU'VE ridden it at, ask them how THEY were riding it, and tell them what THEY are doing WRONG, and I'm pretty sure all confusion will be gone about the product if you can convey the info well. The topic of the Wave Skater comes up on there every few weeks, so if you bring it up I'm sure there will be tons of discussion about it.

Take care.

[tumak]

Hi kneelingBROTHA - I'm sorry to come on strong...

My answer to you may sound pretty silly to the rank & file. First of all, I'm a 53-year-old man. Being a very spiritual Buddhist/Taoist person who grew up in the 6o's and 7o's, I have a simple "total involvement" approach to surfing. I just want to get serious tube-time, a la George Greenough.

I have this thing that I aspire to, and I call it "attaining the tao." Attaining the tao on a wave has to do with ultimate relaxation, wherein you just feel the wave, and the board finds its own way, with minimal human involvment. The wave evolves, the board is in ever-new vectors, and the ride is over when the board no longer flows, or when true danger arises.

As a paipo rider, there's an old technique of eliminating drag by taking the arm that's against the wave and stretching it out in front... sort of like pointing and projecting. I use this technique on the Wave Skater. The ergonomic rail grip can be used to plant the other elbow, which also functions to absorb forward weight as one leans shoreward into it, thus attaining some trim. This trim and glide factor is, in my opinion, the essence of surfing, no matter what the form or vehicle.

What I call "attaining the Tao" is just relaxing into that trimming position. This is like the Taoist practice called "wu wei," or non-action, or action without doing. I really strive not to work at riding, but to allow the ride to ride itself. Sounds pretty whacky, huh? But, that's what I do. I can't advise others to ride any such-and-such-a-way because it wouldn't be them. They have their own aspirations.

For this, I find the Wave Skater is a blast... that is all. But there are far more people on this and other forums who are far more expert than me in the field of bodyboarding... the pros and the bodyboard veterans. I can't teach them anything, but we all need to be able to unlearn and adapt to new forms with some degree of innocence. That's just my opinion.

I didn't catch how you hurt yourself, kneeridingBROTHA, but I hope all is well... that you enjoy your job, make some serious green, and stay stoked on whatever you ride!

-tumak

[kneelingBROTHA]

No worries Tumak...I think I understand more or less how you are saying you ride the wave skater...that's a bit different than a bodyboard. That's why I was confused.

Maybe I'll give it a try sometime. For clarification, could you try to get some sort of photo of your technique, even on dry land? Also, what length board did you buy, in relation to your height/weight? They make the Wave Skaters in a huge range of sizes.

As far as hurting myself, it was skateboarding, and it was PAIN! I quit skating the moment I heard my fibula snap. I gave my board away in the ER to my friend's friend who gave me a ride.

I just did my first lap swimming time in a pool today, its a great feeling to be this exhausted.

As far as my job, its minor part time, but its still my first real job, so I'm way stoked. No "major green" but work is work and I feel a lot better working than not; I tried the whole entire summer to get a job, didn't do to lack of experience, and got a job at my school without an interview. PSYCHED!

later, and if you could get a picture of your technique, even just posing goofy on land that would be cool.

thanks.

and a shout out to Mark WESSLING...thanks dude for the kneeboard, I'm thinking I might actually be back on the thing after physical therapy. Also, I'm going to shoot you an email about something.

later all...

[PaulN]

I've looked at different paipo designs, and have looked at mats, too. Mats look awesome, but I'm not sure they are for me. Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Does anyone know of a shaper that can make a paipo for a good price? I'm not talking about the type of paipos that you see on www.paipo.com or a razor thin hardboard--more of a bellyboard style board. I don't want to pay the price of a full sized hardboard for a bellyboard, so I'm wondering, are there any old school shapers that can do it on the cheap ($200 or less)?

Thanks!

The reason I'm asking is because I want a hard board that I can prone on, and I'm not sure how soon I'll be kneeboarding, even after getting my cast off, because my left leg has spreading numbness and my right leg will be rehabbing. But I'd love to give a shaper some business on an experimental prone board (if I can save enough money from my new job starting monday!)

--marc

PS--I was thinking of something sort of like this, maybe more surfboard-like:

http://www.larryobrien.com/lollipop.htm

I beleive Romanosky qouted me as that board costing the same as a normal kneeboard, that's why I'm asking if anyone else can do it.

I have a shipment of Redback mats coming rom OZ soon, you are welcome to try one if you would like if you are in So- Cal.

[hart]

[quote="PaulN

I have a shipment of Redback mats coming rom OZ soon, you are welcome to try one if you would like if you are in So- Cal.

[/quote]

not wanting to be controversial here, either..

but why aren't you supporting your local shaper

OZ does mean Australia, right?

hart

enjoying your first posts..could be but, that the word local has newer connatations than in the past



..and the US does make mats!

[rick mottola]

hey kneebro, perhaps the photo of this bearded man can help explain tumak's technique.

[Man O' War]

Here is the same bearded man, seeking tao no matter how

[PaulN]

Hey Bruce-you are my local shaper. You made me a board recently. I just changed my name.

Anyway on the American mat thing. I have one of Dale's on order and have been waiting for it since March. But his mats are 360$. These Redbacks are nowhere near as much, and offer the rider a bit of the feeling that one can get from mat riding-more so then the pool toy type mats that we can get here. I usally have a friend send me a bunch just to let people see how fun they can make crappy blown out days.

I do agree however that the term local has a different meaning now. In the case of my sig, I would like people to support others in the kneeboard community, it does not have to be the shaper in your town. It comes down to a post that I read in the archives here about the possibility of a Surftech kneeboard, and the generally positive response that idea got. Without getting too much on my soapbox, that is the last thing I want to see.

[Kauaikneelo]

READ THIS ON THE NEWS:

Maybe we can bring a few of these guys on "board"......



PISMO BEACH, Calif. - As a child of 1970s California, Derek McGinnis felt that riding waves was like a birthright, and losing his left leg to a suicide bomber in Iraq wasn't going to stop him from surfing again.

So, he rallied nearly a dozen other wounded-in-action amputees he met in a military hospital and brought them to one of California's last old-fashioned beach towns.

For some of them, the roiling ocean was a second home. The closest others had come to riding waves were movies.

McGinnis brought determination.

"I have a board and (have to) make sure I keep on using it," said McGinnis, 28, a Navy petty officer and medic who began surfing at 10 in Northern California. "I said 'Man, I've got to be able to do it. It's possible.'"

So there he stood one foggy August morning, with an ear-to-ear grin and wearing a brand new wet suit.

With him on the beach was Tim Brumley, who had never handled a surfboard before though he looked the part with his short-cropped, blond hair. The former paratrooper, who lost a leg in Afghanistan last year, had never even seen the Pacific, save for a fleeting glimpse when he visited San Francisco as a kid.

However, as a teenager in New Mexico, Brumley saw a classic flick with some of the best surfing ever committed to film.

"When I saw 'Point Break' I said, 'That's it! I want to surf!'" declared the 26-year-old veteran of the Army Airborne Infantry as he pounded down beers and told war stories at a seaside bar the night before his first lesson.

Nearly 200 miles north of Los Angeles, Pismo Beach is perhaps most famous to tourists for its clams and funny name. To surfers, Pismo Beach means smooth waves, mild weather and pure white beaches more likely to yield a sand dollar than a rock. It is one of a vanishing breed of surfside towns, a place where die-hards still park beat-up RVs for free right next to the sand and head to the waves.

Better yet for McGinnis and friends, it's also the home turf of champion surfer Rodney Roller. He lost a leg in a forklift accident 16 years ago, but returned to the water lugging a 25-pound wooden limb that could withstand corrosive salt water.

Now the 39-year-old Roller teaches other amputees. After McGinnis tracked him down, he agreed to instruct the military men for free, figuring it was payback for all the people who helped him get back in the water.

McGinnis met most of his crew at Brooke Army Medical Center in Fort Houston, Texas, where he was recovering after a suicide bomber crashed an explosives-laden car into his ambulance two years ago. Money for the trip was raised by Operation Comfort, a San Antonio-based organization that helps wounded veterans rebuild their lives.

Some members of the group had lost an arm to the war. Former Army Sgt. Chang Wong, 24, lost both legs when his tank ran over an explosive. Jesse Schertz, a 22-year-old retired Marine corporal from Peoria, Ill., was severely burned and lost a leg.

"It's going to be a blast," McGinnis promised them. "It will show you can achieve anything. No matter what, you can overcome."

His immediate goal was to stand up on his board within 30 minutes of hitting the water.

During a brief demonstration on shore, novices including Brumley, Schertz and Wong were shown how to get on a board and keep their balance.

They were taught how to paddle - "one arm at a time" as the instructor said.

"I've only got one arm, dude," shouted Michael Owens, drawing laughter. The 22-year-old ex-Marine lost his other arm when his convoy was ambushed in Iraq.

In their first few minutes on the water, some missed waves, some boards capsized and some rocketed away, spilling their riders.

Then a cheer rose as McGinnis met his goal with a nice ride 30 minutes into the day.

The cheers continued as Owens began cruising with his one-arm paddle technique.

Beyond the breakers, a small herd of curious sea lions watched briefly, and a pair of dolphins leaped majestically out of the water.

There would be two more practice days; then the group had an informal competition. First prize, a surfboard donated by a manufacturer, went to Andy Soule, a double amputee who managed a wave-riding handstand.

Although Brumley didn't win, just being there was satisfaction enough.

"I'm thinking about telling my wife, telling her we're moving out here to Cali," Brumley, exhausted but exhilarated, said as he waded to shore for a rest. "Just surf every day for the rest of my life. It wouldn't be bad, you know."

---

I'M SURE THESE SURFERS WOULD'NT CARE WHAT THEY RIDE. LETS REMEMBER WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT......THE RIDE

[kneelingBROTHA]

I've looked at different paipo designs, and have looked at mats, too. Mats look awesome, but I'm not sure they are for me. Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Does anyone know of a shaper that can make a paipo for a good price? I'm not talking about the type of paipos that you see on www.paipo.com or a razor thin hardboard--more of a bellyboard style board. I don't want to pay the price of a full sized hardboard for a bellyboard, so I'm wondering, are there any old school shapers that can do it on the cheap ($200 or less)?

Thanks!

The reason I'm asking is because I want a hard board that I can prone on, and I'm not sure how soon I'll be kneeboarding, even after getting my cast off, because my left leg has spreading numbness and my right leg will be rehabbing. But I'd love to give a shaper some business on an experimental prone board (if I can save enough money from my new job starting monday!)

--marc

PS--I was thinking of something sort of like this, maybe more surfboard-like:

http://www.larryobrien.com/lollipop.htm

I beleive Romanosky qouted me as that board costing the same as a normal kneeboard, that's why I'm asking if anyone else can do it.

I have a shipment of Redback mats coming rom OZ soon, you are welcome to try one if you would like if you are in So- Cal.

NOTICE: Please note that we do not manufacture Redback mats or soft foam boards and are not responsible for any warranty claims. Due to quality issues we have decided to no longer stock these products for sale on our website.

Please tell me that its a different Redback, because I'm jonesin' for a surf mat.