Some questions

[jimithesaint]

I am just getting into KBing after standup surfing for 30 years - and I have some basic questions on techinques. I apologize if they sound stupid, I don't have many KBers around to bounce them off of

I had a chance to ride the KB I picked up a couple times this weekend- less than optimal conditions 3-5ft 15mph onshores, sloppy. But at least I finally got it in the water- it has been flat on the East Coast.

1) my feet were hurting/cramping while riding , I think it was due to sitting down on my feet. Has anyone had this experience?
2) I wore fins and they seemed to help getting out , but getting the board balanced so I could catch waves I didn't really feel comfortable trying to kick. Do most guys not use them for catching waves(ie just arm paddle in). This might be a board length/body length thing (I'm 5'8"/ board is 6'0")

Any general (or specific) advice beyond keep trying and see what works ? Just trying to shorten up my learning curve

Thanks for any help
Jim N

[albert]

1) my feet were hurting/cramping while riding , I think it was due to sitting down on my feet. Has anyone had this experience?

my advice... dont sit on your feet. Even if your feet dont cause you pain its only going to slow you down. Lean your head and torso forward, kneel a little further back on the board and it should compensate for your center of gravity by giving it a bit more flexibility.

2) I wore fins and they seemed to help getting out , but getting the board balanced so I could catch waves I didn't really feel comfortable trying to kick. Do most guys not use them for catching waves(ie just arm paddle in). This might be a board length/body length thing (I'm 5'8"/ board is 6'0")

The way I see it...if you have spent the last 30 years catching waves without flippers, why do you need them now?! Lots of people use flippers for many different things. It sounds to me like you are lying a little too far back on your board to keep the flippers in the water. When I used to wear flippers, I only used them about 20% of the time. I would paddle out only with my arms, occasionally i would use them to boost me through duck dives. Then once I was out there I would use them to get waves, thats about all I used them for, so 80% of the time I would only use my arms. I dont use flippers nowadays, in transitioning I felt the hardest thing was building up the arm strenght.

Hope this helps, where in the East Coast are you?

[jimithesaint]

Thanks Albert - that is the kind of help I was looking for.

As for the fins - I was gonna try it without them for a couple of sessions to see how I do without them (I have read some of the fins vs no fins threads LOL)

I am in Virgina and surf the Outer Banks of North Carolina

Jim

[toofast3]

[toofast3]

orry about the post.. Daughter playing around...

jimi........My style is a little different then Albert’s. I tend to do what I call standing on my knees. Kind of like you are kneeling to prey. This allows me to throw the tail around and it seems like the board is planning higher in the water. I would suggest, since you don’t see to many other KBers around, you send some time looking at the general surfing pics and look at the different positions they are in. Next time you are out, try to remember how the guys are positioned and try different styles until you find one that fits you.

I wear fins 100 % of the time. For me, it started with the guys that got me into KBing. They all wear them so I figured that is what you are supposed to do. Now, if I don’t wear them, it just doesn’t feel right. For me, it does help me get out and catching waves. The boards I ride tend to be on the short side and the fins help out. When I’m trying to catch a wave, I’m using my arms and my legs. I know someone did a survey about fins or no fins, but I don’t remember the out come. I would think is in the area of 50/50.

As for the cramping, again I suggest you go back and read some of the old forums on cramps. I know there are a few of them. Just up to recently, I would get cramps in my calves. I tried different things and what I have found for me is, instead of having a soda before surfing, I drink Gatorade. A buddy that I surf with was telling me that the caffeine in the soda is dehydrating me and that could cause the cramps. Since I have switched, no more cramps.

All of us misfits here are all different and have different opinions and styles. So try different things and have fun KBing….

[MIK911]

[quote="toofast3"]
When I’m trying to catch a wave, I’m using my arms and my legs.quote]

When you use arm and legs, isn't the rear of the board inhibiting your kicking action? I guess it depends on your height and board length, but I'm 6', and my board is 5'10. When I kick for a wave, I find that I must shuffle back towards the rear of the board, to the point where I am holding the board with outstretched arms. Otherwise, my thighs hit the board when kicking. I assume that in order to use arms and legs, the board must be fairly short compared to your height.

[Mark Ramirez]

Jimi, I wear flippers 100% 0f the time because it helps me paddle out to the line-up and catching waves. This works for me if I'm using a short KB, I'm all the way back on the board, using it similar to a kick-board in a swimming pool, as the wave lifts me, when I catch the wave I "scoot" up the board bringing the board under my knees in one quick motion. I guess I done this for so long I don't recall the time having to practice it, but you might have to. Your feet tend to cramp from sitting on them and because we normally have this thing were you get dehydrated from osmosis. Have you ever taken a long bath, your skin gets wrinkled, because some of the water in our body leaves our body which causes cramping when physically excercising.

[loonylen]

I've only been using fins or flippers for a couple of years, i'm older and bulked up now i'm 46 but as a youngster I never really needed them.But now they do help so does more volume in my board lol, but seriously do what feels natural and what works for you. I like late take off's, as the wave is pitching push your tail hard into the water a couple of kicks and throw yourself forward onto your knee's its a real buzz.As for cramping I used to get cramps without flippers too, trying to negotiate a big bottom turn with one leg sticking out calf muscle knotted up must look pretty funny from the shore lol

[jimithesaint]

Thanks everyone, this kind of feedback really helps. I wasn’t really sure of the best method to employ for catching waves. Given enough time, I may have come to some of these same conclusions, but it is nice to have some good ideas to work from. The couple sessions I have had the waves were seriously junky- choppy, shifty, wind swell.

Smells, you hit on some of my findings- With this board length, if I use the fins to get into a wave I’m too far back on the board /
If I lay on the board so I can paddle into them, the fins are pretty much useless because my feet are right past the tail.

I can see board length may be much more critical than in the stand up world

Judging from locations I should just head out to San Diego for some KBing and first hand demo/observing


Jim N

[toofast3]

Mik911....With my boards I don`t think my board is in the way of my fins. I`m 5-7 and I ride boards from 4-9 to 5-8. I don`t find myself sliding back on my boards to get more kick on my longer boards. When i`m paddling for a wave, the tip of my board is just out of the water. More like a standup.I do see alot of other KBers sitting back on their boards and it looks like they are "plowing" water. I try and plane mind more
I also think it has to do with how the boards floats you. When i`m on my boards, it seems like in a little deeper in the water them most. I have borrowed other KBers boards that are in the 6" range and where I feel I need to be to catch the wave, my fins feel like they are useless. I think it has to do more with postion the the board in relationship to board lenght

[toofast3]

So Smells that would be triple over head for you when you are bellyboarding

[stemple]

Fin cramps,

I find that being well hydrated helps but the biggest reason I get cramps is because they are too tight. I use fin socks and get my fins on the large side. I also use fin leashes. Wearing booties with any kind of sole is usually a recipe for cramps. When the fins are slightly loose I find the amount of cramps I get is much less. I also find that after a slow summer if I start surfing a lot in the fall the first few times I get cramps until i strengthen those muscles. I also think the temperature of water plays a role as well. I get them much less in warmer water. Good luck.

Re: if you are strong paddler, have a decent size kneeboard and you wear fins its much easier to sit outside and pick off the choice ones again and again. This can lead to some frustrated, testostrone poisoned young ones riding unsuitable, but fashionable potato chip boards.

[kidrock]

I think Jimi deserves a lot of respect for his questions regarding the art of KB. How many of us have EVER been able to convince a standup of 30 years (!!!) that KB'ing could be at least as difficult to master as standup

All the suggestions above are excellent. I think everyone has a different style, and needs to develop their own. The only way to develop is to get out there and practice.

Once you get the basics of balance down, work on style. On the Right Coast, kb'ers are few and far between...therefore making it difficult to emulate another's style. Be a trendsetter...develop your own!!!

You also have a handful of experienced, extremely knowledgeable half-men north and south of you. Seek them out, I'm sure they'll share waves and knowledge with you. It's a much closer brotherhood than the standup community.

And, your in the OBX. You may not realize how lucky you are...

And for gawd's sake, JUST HAVE FUN.

STONE akd "kidrock"

[Shaunsy]

Growing up - my surfing mates were pretty much 50/50 standup/kneelos - and I still surf with these guys. My footboarding mates were always interested in our kbing and happy to comment on our styles lines etc.
20 years down the track and my best mate finally had a full surf on my kneeboard - (5 11 x 22 rounded square tri Island by Deano) couldn't paddle it - when he did catch a wave he tried to do some turns ( he has been watching kboarders his whole life - so he knows what the things are capable of)

"I kooked it" was his call "Kneeboards are so hard to ride"

He agreed with the long held idea that KB was easy to start - but difficult to master.

As for styles some people lean forward some people knee kinda upright - some do both when required - too upright and you lack drive - too forward and board rotation through a turn become harder.

My best tip is visualization - imagine yourself ripping a big top turn - even look at vid of the top kneelos and their body postition as they execute turns and then picture yourself on the board doing the same - eventually it will come.

Cheers