Who made the first kneeboards? (that weren't flex spoons)

kneelingBROTHA · Post by **kneelingBROTHA** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:44 pm

Hi all. I haven't posted in a little while I believe, I have been too busy riding waves! Anyone that is down for a session in Newport, Huntington or the South Bay let me know, as I am always up for constructive criticism of my riding.

THE QUESTION OF THE DAY:
Who created the first kneeboard shapes (traditional hardboard kneeboards, not the ingenious Greenough flex spoons that were the impetus for hardboards)?

I'll let that question marinate on here for awhile! I am truly interested to hear the stories, speculation and more from around the globe about the origins of the sport we all love.

I figure it would break up the board length, flipper/flipperless and Romo vs. The World discussions, and allow everyone to think about kneeboarding in the purest sense. That's what we all love to do...
...but where did it come from?

RMcKnee · Post by **RMcKnee** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:30 pm

kneelingBROTHA wrote:Who created the first kneeboard shapes ...

Polynesians.
(See Captain J. Cook's Journals.)

BTW, I believe GG's first kneeboard, also the starting point for the flex spoon, was balsa. Another surprise; it started life as a twin-fin.

analbirth · Post by **analbirth** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:02 am

yes folks mr mcknee wins the prize the tahitians were in fact the first recorded surfers and it was on slabs of tree's carved for that specific purpose
[ i somehow knew robo would have an answer as the poor bugger is stuck all day & night in front of the infernal machine, not being able to surf n all. poor bastard] yet it is the humble kneeboarder who is pilloried & sneered at by the majority [ pack mentality ] stand ups who believe they are the more evolved of the ocean going primates. I like being a minority it makes me feel special

KenM · Post by **KenM** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:35 am

K-brotha, If you can, get a copy of the Surfer's Journal vol7 no4. There is an article on Greenough by Paul Gross with many great pics. Including a balsa kneeboard he made in woodshop in 1959, the balsa twin fin mentioned by Mr McKnee as well as showing how the balsa was used as a male mold to form the first flex spoon. I think this is a great subject, what was the development of kneeboarding between the Polynesians and Hawaiians to Greenough. On the Surf Research site is a picture of the Australian doctor, Ernest Smithers, that invented the Surf o Plane kneeriding one in 1938.

Bud · Post by **Bud** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:56 pm

Kneeboard surfer?

KenM · Post by **KenM** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:01 pm

Bud, I've thought the very same thing every time I've seen that picture over the last 30+ years.

Steeno · Post by **Steeno** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:52 pm

Traditionally, the art of surfing is derived directly from the old members of the Hawaiian royalty, who surfed on boards made by themselves from materials locally available. The art of surfing was considered "the sport of kings", and the major part of the contemporary history, frequently based on studies made at the Bishop Museum of Hawaii, used to find its origins at the blue waters of Oahu and its surrounding islands.

Nevertheless, there are two ancient cultures, Mochica and Chimu, which developed in the north of Peru more than two thousand years ago and were discovered thanks to existence of important ruins and architectural complexes.

These societies have been the first ones to be related actively with powerful tidal zones, through activities such as transport and fishing. They left us many examples of designs "featuring" waves in the religious iconography and the art expressed on textiles, frescos and ceramics, many of which are scale models of the first crafts made for surfing called "caballitos de totora".

The first men, who experienced the pleasure of surfing, were fishermen who had to utilize the powerful waves in order to get food. The necessary courage, in combination with the instinct of survival resulted in a ritual similar to that of other warriors in history. This was the earliest example of men using boards created specifically for entering and leaving the sea. These men are still using them in modern times. It is possible to watch them in Trujillo; Huanchaco Beach is famous for this reason.

Because surfing was one of the most important parts in the learning process of every fisherman, the success of the daily catch depended on complete knowledge of the waves and the ocean.

http://www.perusurfguides.com/peru_surf ... istory.php

interesting point but no kneelo's

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:13 am

I believe that photo of the early Hawaiian board is of a belly board. We have a similar board in the Santa Cruz Surfing Museum. Nothing yet if it was ever ridden on knees.

Bud · Post by **Bud** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:00 am

Despite all the tedious attempts to quantify and categorize the the origins of surfing in general, I think it's safe to say that some kid at some beach somewhere, learned to swim and play in the sea. Could have been on almost any shore. A kid grabs some driftwood makes use of it as a vehicle to ride waves with. Starts off prone, kneeling, standing, it doesn't really matter. The very "first time" is forever lost to antiquity. But I bet it was as simple as that.
Just a kid having fun.

surfhorn · Post by **surfhorn** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:50 am

Bud - Bingo! Its how we all really started.

Steeno · Post by **Steeno** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:53 pm

i would have to agree

KenM · Post by **KenM** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:39 pm

I know Greenough was a huge influence on many who then influenced most of the rest of us in the mid 60's to early 70's.So did GG "restart" the art of kneeboarding by himself? Was there anyone else kneeriding in the 40's or 50's or is George due the credit for our whole tribe?

RMcKnee · Post by **RMcKnee** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:40 pm

I recall seeing a photo, taken some time in the 40s, I believe, of Wally Froiseth kneeriding on a paipo. Don't remember where, possibly Nats History of Surfing.

Interesting interview with Wally here.
http://www.legendarysurfers.com/surf/legends/ls10.shtml
Don't have time to check thoroughly, but doesn't seem to mention kneeriding. Still fascinating stuff, and a little controversial too.

Another possible clue;
"For the next five years we spent considerable time and energy documenting the links between the paipo, the Lis fish, and the Simmons
hydrodynamic planing hull. We interviewed Wally Froiseth and Valentine Ching...Tom Morey...Tom Henry...Ray Jr Hookano...Peter Pope... Rabbit Kekai...I want to thank them all for sharing something very personal and sacred with us."
Go here http://hydrodynamica.blogspot.com/2008/ ... quest.html

KenM · Post by **KenM** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:53 am

Good stuff McKnee, thanks! Was aware that Froiseth used to stand on a paipo sometimes but did not know he also knee rode it. I've been looking forward to seeing RK's Hydrodynamica for, it seems like, about 10 years now.

RMcKnee · Post by **RMcKnee** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:12 am

KenM, I could spend days, weeks, months following the labrynthine twists and turns of surfing history. FWIW, the stand-out online resoure at the moment is LEGENDARY SURFERS at; http://www.legendarysurfers.com/blog/

With particular relevance to the four traditional surfboard types, including the paipo, is;
http://www.legendarysurfers.com/surf/le ... oards.html

Found that photo of W.Froiseth! Nat Young's History of Surfing (Revised Edition) page 174. (I have the paperback edition from 1983. ISBN 0 9591816 4 4.)

Had to retrieve my copy from a cardboard box in the garage. In the photo Wally is standing on a paipo while riding at Makaha in the 1940s. To add still more mystery to the brew, Wally's wearing flippers. Nat includes this photo in his chapter on Kneeboards & Wave Skis (er, thanks Nat ...). Interestingly, he talks at length about the origins of Australian kneeboarding first, making sure to mention that GG is NOT the father of kneeboarding, then goes on to mention the link to Hawaii, Froiseth and Valentine. Nat's known for a certain chronological eccentricity, as well as the occasional factual omission, but his books have filled a gap. Anyway, The same book carries, (on pp 22-23), a double-page spread of Wally Froiseth surfing a hot-curl board at Waikiki, plus a few shots of a hot-curl board. The photo of the Hawaiian with paipo/alaiia posted above by Bud appears on page 30 above an engraving from the Bishop Museum captioned; "surf swimming by Sandwich Islands"(sic). This looks probably 18th century and shows several different surfing stances, one of which is a kind of drop-knee. Cook of course cruised through the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii) in the third of his celebrated South Sea Voyages. He died on the island of Hawaii at Kealakekua Bay on Valentine's Day (spooky paipo synchronicity) 1779 after being stabbed by locals during a dispute over a stolen boat.

Kneeboard Surfing USA Community Forum

Who made the first kneeboards? (that weren't flex spoons)

Who made the first kneeboards? (that weren't flex spoons)

who was it ?

original kneesters?

Was Captain Cook speared by an enraged UG kneeboarder?